sarduy
Member
This is my idea of a modern scout rifle
Scout rifle for our current times
- Thread starter KY DAN
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chicharrones
needs more ammo
IMO, since the man that defined the Scout Rifle isn't around anymore to defend his definition (in public, in print, or via internet video), that the original definition has been re-interpreted. Whether for better or for worse.
Which makes me think of how the historical definition of decimation compares to the current definition of decimation.
I'd say that a lot of folks that grew up with the original definition (of either word) hold firm that the original definition is the correct definition.
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chicharrones
needs more ammo
Australian410hunter
Member
Many years ago I had a .308 'scout' rifle built. It was based on a Savage 110 LH .308, with a Douglas premium barrel, detachable mags, variable scope, trimmed wood stock. Still use it, still serves the same purpose. And I agree with the original post on this feed, if you didn't stock up with ammunition, and components, before all this happened, you weren't watching!
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"The Steyr Scout is an Austrian bolt-action rifle manufactured by Steyr Mannlicher, and chambered primarily for 7.62 NATO, although other caliber options in 5.56 NATO, .243 Winchester, 6.5 Creedmoor, .376 Steyr and 7mm-08 Remington are also offered commercially. It is intended to fill the role of a versatile, lightweight all-around rifle as specified in Jeff Cooper's scout rifle concept. Apart from the barrel and action, the gun is made primarily of polymers and is designed to be accurate to at least 300–400 m" The Scope mounted forward behaves much like "Express Sights" used on African Big Game Rifles for fast, close shots where a miss could get you killed.
The .376 is based on the 9.3×64mm Brenneke case, necked up to accept a 0.375-inch diameter bullet, it runs pretty close to .375 H&H and a few hundred fps behind the .375 Ruger. makes animals DRT.
The .376 is based on the 9.3×64mm Brenneke case, necked up to accept a 0.375-inch diameter bullet, it runs pretty close to .375 H&H and a few hundred fps behind the .375 Ruger. makes animals DRT.
35 Whelen
Member
The definition is important because it defines the firearm and let's us know, if only generally, the task for which the firearm was designed. If someone tells you they bought a new prairie dog rifle, what would you envision? Certainly not an 1895 Marlin with a 2.5X scope, right? Because such a rifle wouldn't come close to meeting the generally accepted criteria of a rifle used to shoot small targets at relatively long distances. Can you hunt prairies dogs with a lever action 45-70? Sure, but that doesn't make it a prairie dog rifle. If your hunting buddy told you he bought a new elk rifle for still hunting in dark timber, would you expect him to show you something like a Savage Model 12 with a 26" heavy barrel wearing a 6-24X scope? That's why definitions are important, even in this current society where we're supposed to allow everyone to create their own definitions.
The Scout Rifle is not an idea, it's a concept. In order to understand the concept, you have to flush your mind of the current internet forum fantasy of defending oneself in an urban SHTF situation. If you truly understand the task for which the rifle was envisioned, then you'd understand that rather than being of limited use, it's possibly one of the most versatile rifles, ever.
There's really nothing to question, because you're viewing the concept through the wrong lens; as a purely self defense rifle.
35W
dh1633pm
Contributing Member
I looked at all the rifles currently on the market as "scout" rifles. I got the Ruger with the synthetic stock and an XS rail. I did not use a forward mount scope. Added an aftermarket trigger. Have some five and ten rounders for it. It is a great all around rifle. I can carry it for hunting or just out in the woods. I see the concept as an all around rifle you can use for almost anything and everything.
35 Whelen
Member
You pretty much nailed it.
One of the purposes of the forward mounted scope is to allow having a pre-zeroed aperture sight mounted to the rear receiver ring. If something happens to ones scope and it is damaged, etc. (thanks to a couple of crazy horses this has happened to me twice on elk hunting trips), one simply removes the scope and carries on with the sights.
35W
theotherwaldo
Member
dh1633pm
Contributing Member
On mine, I used quick release rings and the XS rail I use has sights on it. Check and double check. I know some like the forward mounted scopes. I am not big on that idea. I know others like it.
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sarduy
Member
When i see the phase Scout Rifle, i imagine a rifle someone uses to Scout. But you have to think, what is he/she scouting for? Squirrel, deers, elk, terrorist? Invading army trying to take your county? Because Copper’s concept is great but a moderm Recce rifle also make’s one hell of a “scout” rifle.
The old gunsmith
Member
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I never have been a fan of the forward mounted scopes ; but, the basis of a scout rifle is basically that of a multitool. A rifle that, while not ideal for any circumstance, can be employed for most any circumstance that you are likely to encounter. What caliber, configuration, accessories is likely to vary depending on your needs. A bolt action 223 may be perfect for knocking around the woods in Tennessee but not for Alaska. By that same token, your perfect knock around gun may even be a single shot shotgun. Col Cooper's vision was based on what he needed or wanted in a one gun does it all concept.
Ignition Override
Member
Whatever Ukrainian military and civilian militias prefer right now would be 'very real world' - assuming they aren't still very --short-- of having enough small arms, and possibly Can choose a bit (5.45 vs. 7.62x39).
Generally only comments by militia/infantry combat veterans, even from fighting in other countries, hold any water with me, regarding scout rifles or otherwise.
A classic full-length hunting rifle as 'scout' might work well in Ukraine if lots of ammo were also carried? If accurate outside of RPG or heavy machine gun range (no tanks), possibly an academic definition would not interest people over there.
My current fantasy rifle - picked up the PTR (.308) yesterday - will have a go at both Shoot N See and large plastic bottles today.
Generally only comments by militia/infantry combat veterans, even from fighting in other countries, hold any water with me, regarding scout rifles or otherwise.
A classic full-length hunting rifle as 'scout' might work well in Ukraine if lots of ammo were also carried? If accurate outside of RPG or heavy machine gun range (no tanks), possibly an academic definition would not interest people over there.
My current fantasy rifle - picked up the PTR (.308) yesterday - will have a go at both Shoot N See and large plastic bottles today.
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Gordon
Member
I built a little 1959 Bulgarian Moisin carbine last year into a scout .1.5-5 x Burris LER in QD rings on a rather bomb proof mount that maintained the iron sights.Pachmayr recoil pad on the metal butt with a epoxied on comb riser with a Timney 2 pound trigger the as new barrel puts Bulgarian heavy ball into under 2 moa out to 600 yards off a Harris bipod.Has a Rhodesian sling set up. .I bought two spam cans of Bulgarian ball that will remain sealed as I have a lot of 7.62x54r around.
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Gordon
Member
1891/59 Mosin
1891/59 Mosin
In 1959 the Soviet Union anticipated an American Invasion. A batch of new Izhevsk armory stored Mosin 1891's were sent to Bulgaria (History is unclear) to be re-armored. The weapons barrels were shortened to 18.5 inches and forward wood furniture was fitted to match new barrel length. They are reported to have been returned for
distribution to what the Soviets called The Home Guard. The Home Guard was a second line civilian defence force. The American invasion never materialized and many of the weapons were again stored in the Izhevsk Armory.
The 91/59 shortened barrel makes for a heavier barrel with a reduced weapon weight. Accuracy is very good especially since open rear iron sights and hooded blade front sites are used. The sights were also modified to reflect 1000M expected range as opposed to the 2000M sights of the original 1891 Mosin. Still chambered 7.62 X 54R the weapon is reported to be the best of the Mosin Nagant Carbines and exceeds the short range expectations of the 1891 long rifles.
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adcoch1
Member
A moisin as a scout rifle makes a lot of sense considering the concept parameters. I like yours.
I always wanted to build one on a Chilean Mauser...
Mini-30's (or 14's) are going over a grand...
Com-Bloc Ammo is still around, but I'm afraid the Biden Cabinet (Democrats) are going to stop ALL importation and it'll stay that way until who knows when if ever.
Even "inexpensive" AK copies are $1K and up...one of our Wholesalers had CAI built AK's on special for $850.
15 years ago when Century Arms had 'em cheap, I bought several with cracked stocks and/or other issues, one of which was a M44 that I cut & Crowned behind the Bayonet mount leaving a 17" barrel, bedded it in a ATI plastic Stock, put a LER Pistol Scope on it and gave it to my Teenage Son....it was pretty accurate, loud was an understatement...If you started shooting it at the Range, people would pack up and leave.
Varminterror
Member
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- Jul 17, 2016
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My “modern scout rifle” is a suppressed 10.5” SBR-15 in 6.8 SPC with a 4-16x44 FFP. Capable of hunting any game I might realistically manage in a scouting scenario, capable of fighting if cornered. Light and fast, sufficiently potent, QUIET, easy and fast to reload, fast on target but also able to reach relatively long for the job too.
I wouldn't worry too much. 7.62x39 is made in many countries other than Russia, and is one of the most popular rounds in the world. The importers will find other sources. It may take a while for prices to come down, but that goes for any caliber these days.
Below is a nearly 30-year-old pic of my early "Scout Rifle" experiment with my Mini-30. It was decades before the Ultimak Rail was a twinkle in it's inventors eye.
The scope is a Burris 1.5X Scout Scope with a German #1 reticle. Talk about greased lighting to target... it was! Simply look at the target, lay the scope over the target and fire.
I'm presently working on a different approach to mounting scout scopes on my Mini-Thirty, and back to the drawing board with several other tweaks and mods.
The Mini-Thirty still meets nearly all the requirements for a semi-auto scout rifle. Fast, light and more than adequate power at scout rifle ranges.
For me though, the purist in me says a true scout rifle is a bolt gun with a forward mounted scope and a simple blade front/ghost ring rear for backup sights.
Having employed the M14 for its intended purpose I had one complaint and that was the length. Then one day Springfield Armory released a version of the M1A that is what the M14 should have been all along.
Meet the Scout Squad
This is without a doubt the best "scout" rifle being produced.
It's pretty southpaw friendly, accurate, and hits with much more authority than any 5.56.
Meet the Scout Squad
This is without a doubt the best "scout" rifle being produced.
It's pretty southpaw friendly, accurate, and hits with much more authority than any 5.56.
marksman13
Member
I’ve always thought the “scout rifle” concept was about as ridiculous and useless as any concept pushed on the American firearm owner. The forward mounted scope on a bolt action rifle just makes the rifle more forward heavy and less effective in low light. If a fighting rifle is needed, the various semi-autos available make much more effective tools than a bolt gun. 308 is a decent choice for such a rifle, but their are other cartridges which may be better, though the 22 LR is not one of them.
Newtosavage
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9 lbs. 3 oz. without a scope? I guess that will take care of recoil but if the idea is scouting, then you're not going too far.
Interesting rifle otherwise.
For all practical purposes, I doubt it does much of anything a Mini-30 with a scout scope rail can't do though.
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