Alec Baldwin: "I didn't pull the trigger.."

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I find it plausible that a poorly maintained replica gun could go off when you pull the hammer back and let go of it. I would expect if they were setting up to film the draw with the gun cocked he also had his finger in the trigger guard. But it maybe could have happened the way he said. Maybe whoever is scripting him now knows what they are doing. The only single actions I shoot are my 2 Rugers. One of which does not have the transfer bar.

Are they using the term "dummy round" and "blanks" to mean the same thing?

His profound ignorance of gun handling will get him off from being criminally prosecuted.
 
DrDeFab said:
Just to clarify, here is an extended quote from Baldwin:


So while it does nothing to address all the other forms of negligence, he is not claiming the gun cocked itself.

I wonder about the possibility he was unaware he was holding the trigger down while he was cocking and fanned it. (...which is also not an excuse, but might lead him to think he didn't "pull" the trigger.) Anyone know if that's possible on the Pietta?
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You can ”fan” an 1858 Pietta.
 
Someone earlier mentioned to the effect of thumbing the hammer & it only needing a small amount if travel to ignite the round.

Seems like that's been confirmed by Baldwin himself.

Describing the incident in detail, Baldwin said he had been told the gun was "cold" -- industry lingo for a firearm containing no live ammunition -- and had been instructed by Hutchins to point the gun in her direction as she prepared to film the scene.

"I let go of the hammer. Bang. The gun goes off," he said.


https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/alec-baldwin-guilt-rust-shooting/2021/12/03/id/1047173/

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-describes-moment-gun-031228362.html

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/re...e-hammer-and-bang-the-gun-goes-off/ar-AARpx0E
Click to expand...
 
I thought I was mentally through with this thread. But....with his latest statement now I am back...

“Someone is responsible for what happened, and I can’t say who that is, but I know it’s not me,”

He also says he feels no remorse since he knows it was not his fault. He also states that his lawyers tell him it is "highly unlikely" that he will be charged with anything.
 
DrDeFab said:
Just to clarify, here is an extended quote from Baldwin:


So while it does nothing to address all the other forms of negligence, he is not claiming the gun cocked itself.

I wonder about the possibility he was unaware he was holding the trigger down while he was cocking and fanned it. (...which is also not an excuse, but might lead him to think he didn't "pull" the trigger.) Anyone know if that's possible on the Pietta?
Click to expand...

According to Baldwin's own words he was practicing drawing and cocking the gun. He appears to do it at least twice based on his quote.

In order to decock a Colt type action you have to touch the trigger to release the hammer. It sounds like he had his finger on the trigger and the hammer sliped
 
Are they using the term "dummy round" and "blanks" to mean the same thing?

If it's news media, they don't know what they are talking about,

Movie "Dummy round" looks like a live cartridge, but does not have a powder charge or live primer. There is a bead in the case that rattles when you shake it. Protocol is to shake the round and if it does not rattle, don't load it in a prop gun ever.
Movie "Blanks" are clearly are not dummy rounds or or live cartridges.
For additional confusion, a lot of accounts of this incident are using "Live round" to refer Blank as distinct from Dummy round.
 
I read an article that stated that the live rounds may have been handloads that were mixed in with some ammo that was given to the armorer and that's how they ended up on the set. ***? I would think that knowing if you have live ammo on the set would be a primary job of the armorer.

I didn't watch the interview that Baldwin did, but I saw he had some words for George Clooney after his comments on the situation. For anyone that didn't see Clooney's comments, he was friends with Brandon Lee before he was killed as they were both struggling actors during that time and he detailed how procedures dealing with guns on sets changed after Brandon was killed. He stated that if he has a scene with a revolver and dummy rounds, before the scene shoots he points the gun at the ground and pulls the trigger on each round to insure there aren't any live rounds.

Baldwin was a producer on "Rust" so he may find himself being on the end of a civil lawsuit as well.
 
Carl N. Brown said:
Movie "Dummy round" looks like a live cartridge, but does not have a powder charge or live primer. There is a bead in the case that rattles when you shake it. Protocol is to shake the round and if it does not rattle, don't load it in a prop gun ever.
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Why wouldn't the 'dummy round' have holes drilled the case ?
Rattle or not, I'd have real reluctance to use true "lookalike" cartridges in any supposedly non-lethal/human-safe point&shoot circumstance.
Color me paranoid....
 
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"How many rounds were in the cylinder...Never heard anything about that..."

That is another confusing thing. Todays article says that the gun was locked in a safe. And the the armorer removed it from the safe and loaded 1 more round in addition to the 5 that were already in it.

Guess who is going to get the rap now.
 
DJW said:
basically, an anti-gun liberal, gets away with murder. about what we can expect in this time of insanity.
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I’m no fan of Baldwin but you simply can’t call this murder. Murder is an intentional and planned act. You would have to be able to prove Baldwin actually brought the live ammo onto the set with the intention of shooting her. It’s an accidental homicide or maybe some variety of manslaughter at most.
 
P5 Guy said:
Would the cylinder advance enough to align the chamber with the barrel and firing pin?
Wouldn't the partially stroked hammer advance the cylinder to a position that would see the hammer fall between chambers?
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This is an excellent point. On my Uberti ( who, again, I believe makes guns for Pietta ) the cylinder starts to rotate after about 1/4 " of hammer movement. Another 1/10th of movement and the cylinder has rotated far enough to preclude the firing pin from touching the primer even if the hammer did go all the way down. At this point the cylinder has rotated far enough out of alignment with the bore that if the gun DID fire, it would be seriously damaged. It is literally impossible for the gun to fire without pressure on the trigger, unless something is broken. That may be the case, but I doubt it.

The authorities in New Mexico will get to the facts and people will be charged. Baldwin will probably be nailed with a Manslaughter charge, and I don't think a New Mexico jury will cut him any slack because of his celebrity status.
 
DustyGmt said:
As an aside, does anybody know how multiple people were injured, did he shoot more than once or are we talking pass through?
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One round fired. It was a pass through. From press releases:
"The incident also injured director Joel Souza. He was hospitalized at the time but later released. Sheriff Mendoza noted that they believe the actual bullet that killed Hutchins was retrieved by doctors from inside Souza's shoulder after he was taken to the hospital. It is now with investigators who will be sending it and a myriad of other evidence to the FBI crime lab"
 
As much as I dislike the fellow's politics, it has to be said that his version is at least theoretically plausible. A modified or damaged SAA can behave exactly as it is claimed to have.

Apparently the defense is shaping up to be "I'm utterly ignorant of firearms, so I paid people to be in charge of that aspect. They handed me what they claimed to have been a "safe" gun, and the fact that it was actually loaded and then malfunctioned means that they, rather than I, are culpable." If the gun does turn out to be capable of firing from full cock without the trigger being pulled, Baldwin may well be declared not guilty, at least on criminal charges.

Now, my personal feeling is that anyone who's job involves frequent use of firearms is obligated to be at least basically competent with them and should be capable of determining whether a gun is loaded, telling the difference between live, blank, and dummy ammunition, and even performing a rudimentary function check. I would no more allow Alec Baldwin to point a gun at me than I would an untrained driver (let alone one who hates cars and wants them banned) to do donuts around me. Putting idiots - even supervised idiots - and guns together is always going to result in the occasional bad outcome, and I strongly suspect that even if Baldwin does get away with this in criminal court, civil court is going to make a serious dent in his accounts.
 
When I was on the set of Water World as an extra, we were told in the safety briefing that we would be handed any firearms/props used on the set by a designated member of the crew. We were told the condition of the firearm/prop would be verified by a designated member of the crew. We would be told if the firearm/prop was empty or loaded with blanks and given another safety brief if given a blank firing firearm/prop and walked through our rehearsal before going live.

We were briefed on the safe handling of any firearm/prop loaded with blanks.

The problem with drilling holes in dummy rounds is some sharp eyed viewer would jump up and holler "Hey! Them boolits have holes in them!"

We were also told that under no circumstances were we to open the action of any firearm/prop for ourselves. They said this was to ensure our safety and the safety of others.

To further ensure safety, no firearm or prop capable of firing blanks were allowed on set until they were absolutely needed. Scenes using blanks were filmed separately.

Replica guns won't accept live ammo and are incapable of safely containing the pressure of live ammo.

Non-firing replicas are cheaper to rent than blank firing firearms/props. The cheaper the film budget, the more likely the replicas are rubber, wood or just plain busted up. You guys would have laughed at how badly busted up the AK was they gave me to wave around.
 
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tark said:
This is an excellent point. On my Uberti ( who, again, I believe makes guns for Pietta )
Click to expand...

Why do you keep saying that? The cap and ball guns are said to be clearly different by owners and gunsmiths. When the Great Western II came out, it was touted as a new and different gun.
Add on safety systems are different.
 
Elkins45 said:
I’m no fan of Baldwin but you simply can’t call this murder. Murder is an intentional and planned act. You would have to be able to prove Baldwin actually brought the live ammo onto the set with the intention of shooting her. It’s an accidental homicide or maybe some variety of manslaughter at most.
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But...

...the gun world waaants to crucify him!

Such is our collective tribalist bias!

Such is our pathetic mindlessness! :rofl:
 
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Reeeally curious, though - there've been a lot on talking heads on various shows, all pontificating...

...and work has kept me away from all of them! :rofl:

But is it standard for the actor to be part of the exaggerated chamber check, show to the world the weapon is cold safety chain in all productions, across the board? All this, with a relatively esoteric firearm, and equally esoteric bullets...

It's not like a 9mm made its way into a .40 S&W and went frap! :rofl:

I vaguely remember having overheard George Clooney stating such regarding the safety chain, but his productions have been high - dollar ones, perhaps implying greater adherence to safety standards...

Speculation: There's no standardized drill like what a pilot would do in a pre - flight survey of the plane.
 
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Since he didn't pull the trigger, the discharge must have been some type of mechanical failure or malfunction. No idea what type of gun was used, but I bet that specific gun is being held in evidence. Most guns aren't that complicated, mechanically speaking. Not compared to something like an internal combustion engine, or most electrical items, or this laptop I'm using right now. Should be a simple affair for a certified expert/tech/gunsmith/armorer on whatever type of gun we are talking about to inspect the gun inside and out, and determine what the mechanical status is, if safety features are functioning, etc. That still leaves the question of why the gun was pointed in the direction it was at the time of the discharge. Can't really argue that point, because if it had been pointed somewhere else, then the bullet would have gone somewhere else, since that is how that works.
 
I seem to remember reading somewhere that he said he didn't even have his finger in the trigger guard, and that someone saw that and can verify it, perhaps the producer who handed him the "cold" gun?

Wonder what the chances are that if someone of importance on the set comes forward and says they saw him doing something negligent they will be blacklisted from working in the industry again?
 
Jim Watson said:
Why do you keep saying that? The cap and ball guns are said to be clearly different by owners and gunsmiths. When the Great Western II came out, it was touted as a new and different gun.
Add on safety systems are different.
Click to expand...
Well. to start with, we aren't talking about a cap and ball gun, Jim. We're talking about a hogleg in .45 colt. And I'm pretty sure the gun was a Uberti, because I just went to Pietta's website and could not find any cartridge revolvers at all. Nothing but cap and ball. And speaking of those, the Pietta 1860 .44 Army I had, had "Uberti" stamped on the bottom of the barrel. Uberti makes SAA Colt replicas for just about everybody and has been doing so for a long time.
 
From EMF
EMF's Great Western II single action revolvers and Hartford model percussion pistols are manufactured by F.A.P F.LLI. Pietta. Established in 1960 by Knight Giuseppe Pietta, the company first entered the world of gun-making by producing hunting guns, including side-by-side and over and under shotguns. In 1964, F.A.P F.LLI. Pietta started manufacturing replicas of the firearms used in the American Civil War. Over the years, they have made an excellent reputation (in a very difficult market) for making quality black powder reproductions. In 2002, Mr. Davis, CEO/President of EMF Company turned to Knight Giuseppe Pietta to manufacture EMF's Great Western II line of single action revolvers.

http://piettausa.com/Single-Action-Revolvers_c_26.html

I know they are all in cahoots, and Beretta owns Uberti to boot, but here we have an importer giving his source.
 
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