10mm or .45ACP?
- Thread starter SHAGGY101
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I guess I like the fact that at 80 yards I can aim dead on with my 10mm and hit the target. My 45 requires a bit of over the target hold (lobbing). This is why I switched several years ago from 45 to 10mm. Now I carry it CCW, hunting and Duty, loads are 180 grains at 1350 fps. My 44 is now a safe queen.
IdahoLT1
Member
JWJacobVT said:
yep. and the 10mm has about the same energy at 100yds as the 45ACP does at the barrel.
Gryffydd
Member
And the XD at 13+1 and the Glock at 13+1, the USP 45 at 12+1, Hi-Cap 1911s at 13 or 14+1...
There are enough models with high enough capacity to make that argument moot when discussing the .45acp as a caliber. There's not even a point in bringing it up.
jard
Member
I'm just wondering how it feels to the .45 boosters to have people talking about your cartridge the same way you used to talk about the 9mm?
"well, if you can't handle the recoil, go with the .45" or ".45 because ammo is cheaper so you can practice more with it, making for better shot placement"
"well, if you can't handle the recoil, go with the .45" or ".45 because ammo is cheaper so you can practice more with it, making for better shot placement"
Das Jaeger
member
My observation
while at the gunshop two days ago , LOTS OF 10mm ammo on shelf , NO .45ACP anything .
You 10mm guys should be in fine shape when crap hits the proverbial fan
Bring your bank account too , it was spendy stuff .
Awsome round a real blaster , punishing round compaired to the .45 ACP , both on the gun and you Excellent hunting choice too by the way . Hard to go wrong with a 10mm if your man enough , or woman enough and have good money .
Das Jaeger
while at the gunshop two days ago , LOTS OF 10mm ammo on shelf , NO .45ACP anything .
You 10mm guys should be in fine shape when crap hits the proverbial fan
Bring your bank account too , it was spendy stuff .
Awsome round a real blaster , punishing round compaired to the .45 ACP , both on the gun and you
Excellent hunting choice too by the way . Hard to go wrong with a 10mm if your man enough , or woman enough and have good money . Das Jaeger
If you seriously think you will be able to buy ammo in a SHTF situation, you are deluding yourself.
I have my SHTF ammo all set aside. 4000 primers, 11 lbs of powder, 2000 cases and a whole bunch of lead (about 2 tons). And, my cost per shot now rivals .22LR, but I got my primers over a year ago.
I have my SHTF ammo all set aside. 4000 primers, 11 lbs of powder, 2000 cases and a whole bunch of lead (about 2 tons). And, my cost per shot now rivals .22LR, but I got my primers over a year ago.
I'm kind of an old, broken down handgunner who suffers from arthritis and a bad back. My macho days are long gone (don't have to impress anybody these days) but I enjoy shooting the 10mm after 30 some years of carrying 45 ACPs. And as for the expense, the price of the various 20 round boxes of carry ammo (JHPs) is about the same as high performance 45 ACPs. Since I can't reload anymore (that arthritis thing I mentioned) buying bulk from Georgia Arms isn't prohibitive.
Dave
I'd go with the 45. Better, more proven man stopper. As far as stopping bigger critters, your 45 will be on the anemic side, but if you reload you can swap out the barrel and recoil spring for a 460 Rowland conversion. Still use the same mags and will be in the 44 magnum realm of raw power.
Glock_10mm
Member
You can guess my vote
You can guess my vote...10mm all the way
You can guess my vote...10mm all the way
Gryffydd
Member
Better than the .357 Magnum in its hottest loadings?
IdahoLT1
Member
EHL said:
Uhhh... how is the 45ACP a "better, more proven man stopper" compared to the 10mm. And the 460 Rowland is nowhere near the level of a .44mag. It can generate 400 more ft/lbs of energy easily. Put it this way, a .44mag can push a 340gr bullet at the same speed a .460 Rowland can push a 230gr. bullet. And you will need a compensator attached to a 1911 in addition to a recoil spring or slide or frame damage will be inevitable.
tactikel
Member
For purely sporting purposes revolvers in .357, .41, or .44 magnum are really hard to beat. 6 rounds are plenty for hunting or for SD in the woods. They are so versatile, have tons of data and components for handloadeing. I feel more comfortable with my S&W Mod. 28 .357 in the woods than my XD-45. I feel REALLY comfortable with my friends Ruger Superblackhawk .44 mag. when hiking in bear country. Now if S&W made a 10mm revolver with half moon clips........ it'd be a .41 mag loaded down 
If I could have learned to shoot a revolver double action I would have saved a bunch of money over the years and just kept my S&W 29 5" classic.
I shoot the 1911 well and I am down to two pistols, neither in 45ACP. The 10mm is a great round that is relatively easy to shoot. 135gr, 155gr, 180gr for defense and 180gr/200gr when walking up on downed feral hogs. The 10mm is more versatile than 45ACP. My other 1911 is in 9mm, cheaper to practice with and in +p+ loadings I don't feel under gunned one bit.
I shoot the 1911 well and I am down to two pistols, neither in 45ACP. The 10mm is a great round that is relatively easy to shoot. 135gr, 155gr, 180gr for defense and 180gr/200gr when walking up on downed feral hogs. The 10mm is more versatile than 45ACP. My other 1911 is in 9mm, cheaper to practice with and in +p+ loadings I don't feel under gunned one bit.
Uh, Idaho, don't know where you got your info but here's what an elementary google search netted me in like 10 seconds.
http://www.texashuntfish.com/app/product-reviews/18977/The-460-Rowland-Rocks
Here's a few other sources:
http://www.wilsoncombat.com/p_460.asp
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?p=2280697
and
http://www.realguns.com/archives/106.htm
Not to split hairs with you, but I used the phrase "in the realm" to describe the comparison between the two. I stand by my choice of words.
Uh, yeah..... So what? All of the reputable companies sell the barrels with the compensators. The specifically warn against shooting 460 without it. It's not like it's something else that we have to shell out money for. It comes with the package.
It depends on how you define "better" and "proven man stopper". By "better" I might point out the simple fact that the reduced recoil of a .45 acp will allow for more accurate follow up shots, hence better overall shot placement. I could also point out that 45 acp ammo is significantly cheaper than 10mm which allows for significantly more practice for the average shooter. (also a good thing) As for "proven man stopper", I could point out that with about a century's worth of war use, law enforcement, and self defense use, the 45 acp is without a doubt not just a "proven man stopper", but a "well proven one". Add to that, the fact that the FBI abandoned the 10mm design after investing significant amounts into it. I guess it all comes down to what you place the most importance on to determine what "better" and "proven man stopper" means.
IdahoLT1
Member
EHL said:
I get my info from actual manufacturers. Georgia arms has a .460 load that moves a 230gr. bullet @1350fps. Double tap has a .44mag load that pushes a 240gr@1500fps out of a 6.5" barrel(which will be just a tad longer than a 1911 w/ a compensator). buffalo bore has a load where a 270gr is @1450fps and a +p+ load where a 340gr. bullet is moving at 1400fps out of a 5.5" barrel, so again, my numbers werent lying.
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=6
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=9
EHL said:
yes, and a 9mm is in the realms of a 357mag, right? That guy obviously wrote a biased article and threw out low numbers for the .44mag to "help" prove his point.
EHL said:
Felt recoil can be subjective to the size of a person. The 10mm will have a bit more recoil than the 45 but its not punishing like some people will have you believe. Cost of ammunition is irrelevant in the "better, proven man stopper" argument. I wasnt saying the .45 isnt a good man stopper. Its a very good one. But, the 10mm generates more energy, usually penetrates deeper and based on Mike Mcnetts(owner/operator of Double Tap Ammo) tests, the 10mm load expands to equal sizes as his .45ACP loads, http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/Official-10-ordinance-ge-t40940.html.
Mike Mcnett said:
Mike Mcnett said:
The FBI stopped using the 10mm when their smaller male and female agents were having problems controling the gun. Face it, some people can shoot and other just cant. I find it odd that you will say the 10mm is "more expensive than the 45 if you dont reload", which generally is true, but will suggest getting the .460 Rowland which is almost exclusively a reloading cartridge.
When people discuss a caliber being a "man stopper", they are talking about when the projectile strikes its target, with the other points being foot notes. So the cost of the round, controlability of the round, what the FBI did with it and shot placement are all foot notes. The relevant points in the argument of a "man stopping" caliber will be energy on impact, penetration depth, the projectile's retained weight, the size of the cavity wound or the tramatic shot to the area and the diameter of the expanded projectile. The 10mm either exceeds the 45ACP in all these aspects. The 10mm is a "better man stopper" compared to the 45acp with its only downfalls being pistol variety, cost of ammo and slight increase in recoil/flash. Some people are such 45ACP nuthuggers that they are blind to other cartridges and will defend it to its death. The 45 is a good overall choice, but there are better options out there.
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Idaho, you ought to take those numbers with a grain of salt. There are numerous threads here on this forum alone that address the inaccuracy of the reported velocities by the various manufacturers.
I didn't quote only "one guy", did you not notice the mulitple sources I linked? Most of these sources used actual chronograph readings as opposed to manufacturer's numbers. Did ALL of these authors and reviewers make up numbers to "help" prove their point too?
I never said that. But as a matter of fact, 10mm would be and is more expensive than 45acp even if you did reload. The cost of the brass is substantially more expensive than the more common 45acp brass. But, I never wrote that statement you quoted.
I struggled with the same question prior to my purchase of a Dan Wesson
CBOB since it is offered in both .45ACP and 10mm.
I already owned two .45's and always wanted a 10mm.
I've shot my friend's 10mm several times and didn't find the recoil bothersome.
The 10mm can do anything the .45 can do just a little better.
The thing is the .45 can do everything I need it to do just fine, including critters, easily out to 50yds. which is about my limit for open sighted handguns.
My next Dan Wesson will be in 10mm, but no regrets on the .45CBOB.
rdan
Ammo availability and cost was the deciding factor.
CBOB since it is offered in both .45ACP and 10mm.
I already owned two .45's and always wanted a 10mm.
I've shot my friend's 10mm several times and didn't find the recoil bothersome.
The 10mm can do anything the .45 can do just a little better.
The thing is the .45 can do everything I need it to do just fine, including critters, easily out to 50yds. which is about my limit for open sighted handguns.
My next Dan Wesson will be in 10mm, but no regrets on the .45CBOB.
rdan
Ammo availability and cost was the deciding factor.
Gryffydd
Member
New brass is the same price for each. However, bullets actually are cheaper for the 10mm. So if you reload, and don't trust unknown range pickups for hot loads, the 10mm is actually cheaper.
BushyGuy
Member
i rather have a 1911 .45 acp then a 10mm cuz its easier to find .45 then it is 10mm . but i am sticking with 9mm i have both decent penetration and expansion with GDHP, Hydra-shoks,TAP and Remington UMC 115gr JHP.
hogshead
Member
Go with the 10, I own a glock 20 and shoot 40sw in it all the time.Plenty of forty around when everything is gone and usually cheaper than 45 imho.At 20 yards the poi is hardly noticeable. Havent started loading for the ten, yet have to buy dies. Are there any that will load both the 40sw and 10mm?
Gryffydd
Member
This takes more than a grain of salt, more like eating an entire salt lick in one sitting.
And most of those threads show that premium ammo like Buffalo Bore, Garrett, Double Tap, and Corbon typically meet or exceed stated velocities. Note also that Buffalo Bore includes actual velocities, and the guns in which they got them.
Ghost Walker
Member
'Classic', 'Proven', or 'Hefty' are all very poor reasons for choosing any 45 acp pistol.
'Front sight dwell time', 'recoil control', and 'split times' would be much better reasons. 10mm does not beat 45 Super; and, when properly set up, many 45 acp pistols can be used as dual caliber handguns.
My Glock Model 21's are set up for BOTH 45 acp, AND 45 Super. 10mm might be faster; but, 45 Super is heavier and often has more muzzle energy. The real trick is to set your G-21 up correctly. I used extended and ported Bar-Sto barrels. For the cost of: an extra barrel, a metal guide rod, and a heavy 24# spring I ended up with two excellent pistols - one for combat and the other for the woods!
Gunfighter123
Member
S&W has/does make a 10mm , the 610 ---- and they did/do make a .40S&W , the 646.
My S&W 610 --- bought around 1989;
My S&W 646 ---- bought around 1997
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