10mm or .45ACP?

[sqlbullet]

Get the 10mm. I have two. They are my second and third, as I previously owned a 10mm in the early '90's . They are the only handguns I now have.

Buy your ammo online, or better yet, learn to handload. Handloading is a skill that will serve you better and better as time goes on.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

+1 harrygunner

Too many people think anything you can't rattle off with .1 sec split times has too much recoil, but I ain't buying it. I know I have 15 rounds on tap in my Glock 20, but I consider it more a .357 Magnum revolver with 2.5x the standard capacity. The ballistics are very similar. Sure, it recoils more than my SIG P220, or my dad's Beretta. But it's recoil is not excessive. I've seen a 16 year old girl shoot it just fine.

My vote for overall versatility would be the 10mm. No other semi-auto pistol cartridge can compare to the overall versatility and utility of the 10mm.

That said, it isn't a powerhouse either. It's not appropriate for bear defense. While I might use it to hunt for black bear at close to moderate range, that would depend solely on my ability to pick my shots. This is a luxury you don't have when a bear is attacking you. I still feel it makes a better choice as a hiking/woods gun than the .45, but it isn't a .41 Mag or a .44 Mag.

The best advice I can give is to think of it as a .357 Mag in an auto pistol. If you think of it like that, it becomes a simpler decision. Would you want a .357 Mag in your camp sight, or a .45? The 10mm can be loaded for much deeper penetration, and has the velocity to pretty much guarantee expansion with most modern JHP.

Don't forget that the .45 ACP and 10 mm can usually be converted to .400 Corbon and 9x25 Dillon, respectively, with no more than a barrel change. I've never shot it, but on paper the .400 Corbon seems like the most underappreciated cartridge out there (for reloaders anyway).

Under appreciated? Even the little recognition the .400 Corbon gets is more than it deserves. I for one can't think of a single reason it should exist at all. If you want .40 S&W ballistics with .45 ACP grip size and capacity, and are willing to deal with the expense to obtain a decrease in performance, then so be it--I guess there are enough suckers out there. But it can't compare to the ballistics of a full power 10mm, esp with 180 gr and heavier bullets. It doesn't have the capacity of the 10mm or the .40...as near as I can tell it literally provides the worst of both worlds into a single abysmally worthless cartridge that just happens to cost a crap load to shoot while providing absolutely no useful advantages over anything else on the market. If I want sub-10mm performance from a .40 caliber cartridge, I'll take the size, capacity, and economy of the .40 S&W every time. If I want .40 caliber performance from a .45-sized frame, I'll rock the ballistic advantage of the 10mm and enjoy the extra round or two of capacity and the reduced cost. But if I am stuck with the capacity of a .45, then it better be a .45. Reducing my capacity and increasing my cost to get a smaller hole is, at best, counter-productive.

 

[federalfarmer]

YES! And enjoy them both!

 

[mljdeckard]

I'm a .45 1911 guy, and I'm certainly not getting rid of it anytime soon, but I recently fell madly in lust with the STI Perfect Ten. (Long-slide, double-stack 10mm.) But I was steered towards a Fusion long-slide kit that costs less than half as much for a long-slide 10mm. I am SERIOUSLY considering that one.

 

[sohcgt2]

Why do 10mm proponants always say it is more versatile than other handgun rounds? In my mind versatility is relative to variety of available ammo. Federal makes 9 options for .45 acp that range from 185g SWC with 244 lbs muzzle energy to 165g EFMJ that carries 476 lbs muzzle energy and 5 varieties of 230g. In 10mm auto they offer 2 choices of 180g bullets FMJ and HS. I realize this is only one Mfg but every Mfg is similar. So without reloading how is it that 10mm is more versatile than anything other than .50ae? Does the chamber allow use of .40SW ammo like with 10mm revolvers, or .357/.38?

 

[IdahoLT1]

Why do 10mm proponants always say it is more versatile than other handgun rounds? In my mind versatility is relative to variety of available ammo. Federal makes 9 options for .45 acp that range from 185g SWC with 244 lbs muzzle energy to 165g EFMJ that carries 476 lbs muzzle energy and 5 varieties of 230g. In 10mm auto they offer 2 choices of 180g bullets FMJ and HS. I realize this is only one Mfg but every Mfg is similar. So without reloading how is it that 10mm is more versatile than anything other than .50ae? Does the chamber allow use of .40SW ammo like with 10mm revolvers, or .357/.38?

People say that when they are talking about handloads. You can use anything from 135gr. bullets to 230gr. bullets and load the power from 40S&W loads for target to full power 10mm loads. A good 10mm autoloader can function off light 10mm rounds that have 40S&W ballistics. You can also legally hunt with them in alot of states, the .45ACP or most any other semi auto cartridge cant. A standard velocity for a 230gr. .45 ACP is ~850FPS. You cant really load that any lighter or else its trajectory will look like a rainbow.

 

[bang_bang]

I own 2 .45 ACP pistols (Para-Ordnance P10 limited and an EAA Witness), love them both.

I have shot 10mm's, was amazed with their power and performance. I believe my next handgun will be a 10mm of some sort (Glock or Witness).

 

[countryrebel]

I have owned both 45 1911's and a glock 20 10mm. For what you want to do they both will work fine. Use full metal jacket flat points and you will have good penetration on game for defense, good hollow points for two leg's. I shot a deer years back with a kimber 45acp at a lasered 185 yards with a handloaded 185xtp. It broke both front shoulders with complete penetration, I am thinking it was slow enough at that range it did not expand but it did the job. If you want to extend your range with better ballistics go with the 10mm. I sold my last kimber 45 and plan on buying a dan wesson 10mm.

 

[Dave T]

I'll go along with the previous posters who say get both. I have 2 10mms and...well, several 45s. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. Get both and enjoy the variety.

Dave

 

[sqlbullet]

People say that when they are talking about handloads.

But let's not forget that the 10mm Auto has also been fancied by guys like Mr. McNett of Double Tap. As a result, you have a fine factory brand that offers all the loads you speak of, 135 graing to 230 grain, with both practice and full power loads.

You can't get the versatility in ammo selection at wally world, but you can get it delivered to your door in 10mm!

 

[charliewood]

the recoil from the 10mm is NOT so unmanagable. my daughter was effectively shooting both my g20 and g29 with winchester silvertips and corbon loads at 14 yrs old. sure...it doesnt tickle your palm like a 9mm,but then again ...it doesnt hit like it does either! btw, im not knocking the 9mm, i carry it as well.

 

[rkamp]

I am down to 2 main pistols as I near the age of 50. Both are 1911's but neither are 45ACP. My custom Delta Elite is the one pistol I will never sell/trade. It is my woods walking and hunting sidearm. The other is a bone stock Kimber stainless II in 9mm.

If I were living in a rural area where deer and pigs made themselves available I would choose a 1911 in 10mm hands down. The 10mm is very versatile and in a 1911 platform easy to shoot well. If I had to choose between a 45acp and 40 S&W in a 1911 platform, I would opt for the 40 S&W and use 155 gr XTP's at maximum velocity for both defense and trail.

 

[surjimmy]

I have both in a 1911 and can tell you the 45 ammo is a lot easier to find, but the 10mm is worth the hunt for ammo. If you don't have either one I think I would get the 45 first, and then the 10mm.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

A 10mm handgun is pretty much a semi-auto equivalent to a .357 Mag revolver. I think a 10mm makes sense in all the situations a .357 Mag does.

Think of a .357 as a 10mm that doesn't throw your empty cases all over the woods where you can't find them.

 

[sqlbullet]

Vern, those had better be some big woods. If they aren't, my Witness will toss my empties out of the woods

 

[ParaElite]

"I want it to be able to stop just about anything in its tracks, animals included".

I recommend the M136 AT4 which fires an 84mm recoiless round - fire once and then drop the "rifle". The U.S. Army is now fielding the M3 Carl Gustav which is reloadable - a better proposition I think. Talk about potent varmint rounds - 84mm.

When I first fired one - wow! I walked around with a big h..... Well never mind.

Sorry there is not a handgun made, revolver or pistol, that will stop "anything in its tracks".

Having said that, get the 10mm!
For under $500 you can get a Tanfoglio (a beefed up Italian clone of a CZ-made in their custom shop - fitted parts and an excellent match trigger) Witness Elite Match in 10mm. Get the 15 round magazines - look around and you can get them from $22 - $24 ea.
Good luck.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Vern, those had better be some big woods. If they aren't, my Witness will toss my empties out of the woods

Your neighbors say if any more brass falls down their chimney, they're keeping it.

 

[surjimmy]

I have to disagree a 10mm is not the same as a 357 mag, it's more like a 41 mag. That is why a lot of women and smaller men FBI agents were have trouble qualifying at the range, "hence the S&W 40 caliber".

 

[Gryffydd]

I have to disagree a 10mm is not the same as a 357 mag, it's more like a 41 mag.

Um no, not even close. The .41 Mag can push a 265 grain bullet faster than the 10mm can push a 200gr bullet. The .357 and the 10mm are actually almost an exact tie, when you compare "real" loads in both calibers, not the weak junk made by the major manufacturers. In fact, the .357 is arguably ever so slightly more powerful, and has better SD, but the difference is negligible.

Edit:
Put another way, the 41 Mag easily pushes past 1,100 ft. lbs of energy, the 10mm tops out around 800 ish.

 

[sqlbullet]

That is why a lot of women and smaller men FBI agents were have trouble qualifying at the range, "hence the S&W 40 caliber".

I agree with Gryffydd. The 10mm is the ballistic twin of the 357 mag. It's advantages are that it fits nicely in 45 ACP sized actions, and is larger in diameter.

Recoil is a function of momentum, which is mass X velocity. It is mitigated by the mass of the weapon. We all know this. Same load + lighter gun = more free recoil.

So, the FBI to mitigate the concerns of those who had trouble qualifying with the Smith and Wesson 1076 in 10mm shooting 180 grain slugs at 980 FPS (10mm FBI load), switched to a lighter gun (Glock 23) shooting 180 grain slugs at 980 FPS.

:banghead:

The move away from 10mm was political.

 

[Gryffydd]

It is mitigated by the mass of the weapon.

It can also be mitigated to a certain degree by the action of the weapon. The springs in an auto soak up some of the recoil. With a full house .357, you get to feel the whole thing Though your average full size .357 revolver weighs quite a bit more than a Glock 20...

 

[surjimmy]

I guess Chuck Warner who built my custom Delta Elite and Mr. Les Baer are wrong. The 38 super is about the same as a 357 mag. This is he info I got from the above Gentlemen when I went looking for these 3 calibers. Les Baer no longer makes the 10mm.

 

[Gryffydd]

So these guys selling you 10mms exaggerated its capabilities?
Any load book or custom ammo manufacturer will show that the 10mm does not come anywhere close to having the same performance ceiling as the .41 Mag. For that matter, the neutered Federal/Remington/Winchester etc. loads show the same thing.

 

[Gryffydd]

The 38 super is about the same as a 357 mag. This is he info I got from the above Gentlemen when I went looking for these 3 calibers.

That one's even worse.
In a 5" barrel the .38 Super +P can push a 124gr bullet to ~1300fps.
In a 4" revolver (don't forget the cylinder gap) the .357 mag can push a 125gr bullet to 1600fps. And can handle weights up to 180 to 200 extremely well. It can push a 180 to 1375fps out of a 4" revolver. Once you get up to 147gr the 38 Super +P is down to abotu 1100fps.

 

[sohcgt2]

Quote:
That is why a lot of women and smaller men FBI agents were have trouble qualifying at the range, "hence the S&W 40 caliber".

I agree with Gryffydd. The 10mm is the ballistic twin of the 357 mag. It's advantages are that it fits nicely in 45 ACP sized actions, and is larger in diameter.

Recoil is a function of momentum, which is mass X velocity. It is mitigated by the mass of the weapon. We all know this. Same load + lighter gun = more free recoil.

So, the FBI to mitigate the concerns of those who had trouble qualifying with the Smith and Wesson 1076 in 10mm shooting 180 grain slugs at 980 FPS (10mm FBI load), switched to a lighter gun (Glock 23) shooting 180 grain slugs at 980 FPS.



The move away from 10mm was political.

I don't know about the political angle, but controlling recoil is about technique not shooter size or strength. I will offer the example of a friend 13 year old daughter who weighs maybe 60 lbs. and can shoot a Glock 20 as well as I can at 225 lbs.