The statement was only comparing the .40 to the 10 and not any other cartridge. Thus it is still true today as the .40 is shorter and weaker than the 10mm. Now that's not taking anything away from the .40 but just stating the obvious facts.
.40 "Short & Weak" or "Short & Wimpy"...does this nickname make any sense anymore??!!
- Thread starter saturno_v
- Start date
- Status
The Lone Haranguer
Member
Agreed.W.E.G. said:
And, it never made sense in the first place. BTW, the .40's original loading, as well as the downloaded 10mm "FedLite" (a wisecrack which at least does make some sense
), in terms of caliber, bullet weight and velocity, is almost identical to the .38-40 WCF of 1874.40 S&W Sheet Metal & Windshields
I like to say it stands for "sheet metal & windshields". Try the round through car doors and front windshields. This is where you will see a difference. Try it with a Nine, .38 or even a 45. If you get the chance, go to an auto salvage yard and stand a few yards away and test your science. The .40 S&W will deliver.
I like to say it stands for "sheet metal & windshields". Try the round through car doors and front windshields. This is where you will see a difference. Try it with a Nine, .38 or even a 45. If you get the chance, go to an auto salvage yard and stand a few yards away and test your science. The .40 S&W will deliver.
lanternlad1
Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2007
- Messages
- 770
I've seen a picture of a .40S&W ND into a human hand. Not pretty - there was a quarter-sized hole in the back of his hand and a crater twice that size out of the front. I was convinced, the .40 is not to be laughed at.
freakshow10mm
member
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2008
- Messages
- 1,951
The 40 is successful because of marketing. Right time, right place, right ads.
"inefficient", my a$$! The .45 ACP is a proven man-stopper that stood the test of time in two world wars, Korea and Viet Nam. The Filipinos were so impressed with it's stopping power in CQC with Japanese insurgents and Filipino guerrillas during WWII, that they made it the official sidearm of their armed forces for several decades after. To this day, some of the finest affordable 1911's are manufactured in the Philippines, such as Rock Island Armory, manufactured by Armscor in Marikina City.
Also, there are few if any .45 aficionados who are stupid enough to honestly believe that the .357 Mag and 10mm are "Girly". In fact, I've said for years that both cartridges are actually OVER-powered for civilian self-defense purposes. The recoil is excessive for even many experienced shooters, and the muzzle blast and muzzle flash are a significant annoyance at best. I wouldn't want to have to shoot either indoors if my life was on the line, especially in a low/no light situation.
The term "short & weak" was not coined by .45 ACP advocates. It was coined by a small percentage of 10mm fanboys in need of common sense. I do not say that to insult the majority of 10mm owners who are not fanboys, and don't get their jollies feeling superior to anyone who doesn't worship the 10mm.
I prefer the .45 ACP in a 1911 or high-cap polymer, period. That does not mean I look down on those who prefer the 10mm, .357 Mag or Sig, .40 S&W, 9mm etc. I don't care what anybody else in the world carries. Practice, practice, practice with whatever caliber and model floats your boat.
Defensory calm down
For the 45 ACP I didn't mean inefficient in term of stopping power.
What I meant is that the .40 S&W reach the same amount of energy and even more in a more compact package that's all
Both rounds are GREAT man stopper...
For the 45 ACP I didn't mean inefficient in term of stopping power.
What I meant is that the .40 S&W reach the same amount of energy and even more in a more compact package that's all
Both rounds are GREAT man stopper...
All's I know is, I've started picking up range brass to get stocked up for getting started on reloading .45's, and I'm AMAZED at how much .40 S&W brass I've been picking up! Every shooting spot I visit, the .40's outnumber everything. Guess I'd better pick up something in .40 flavor, since I've got several thousand cases now. Been finding lots of 9's too, guess I'd better buy a 9 as well.....
Short, yes; weak, no. My agency has used the .40 since 1997, and we shoot lots of bad guys over time. If there was a trend toward weakness, we would know it by now.
Sure, the .40 has less velocity than the 10mm, but it has equivalent velocity to the old .38 WCF, aka .38-40, which is actually a true .40, and was not known for weakness in its day.
Sure, the .40 has less velocity than the 10mm, but it has equivalent velocity to the old .38 WCF, aka .38-40, which is actually a true .40, and was not known for weakness in its day.
I would like to add that this "efficient package" that I was talking about refers to the domain of self-defense cartridges in general. There are hunting loads which take the 10mm to a whole new level, out of the effective reach of the .40 S&W.
Last edited:
freakshow10mm
member
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2008
- Messages
- 1,951
There is no such thing as stopping power.
The recoil of the 40S&W's standard load is the same exact ballistics that the 10mm was tested during the FBI trials. A very common myth about the 10mm is that it recoiled too hard for the agents. In fact, the FBI never tested nor used full Norma spec 10mm ammo. One of the criteria of the cartridges to be tested in that infamous test was that the cartrige could not kick more than the 45 Auto. One of the agents handloaded all the 10mm ammo for the FBI testing to a level that didn't exceed the 45 Auto in recoil. The load was a 180gr JHP at 980fps. The original Norma loads were a 200gr FMJ-TC at 1200fps and a 170gr JHP at 1300fps. This 180/980 was the load that barely edged out the 45 Auto and got the nod for acceptance by the director. The S&W 1076 was dropped due to the size and the weight of the gun, not the recoil of the round.
The ballistics of the common 180gr JHP @ 950fps of the 40S&W are so close to the tested load of the 10mm so much to say they are equal. 30fps doesn't mean ****.
The 10mm is a more versatile cartridge than the 40S&W. The 10mm can be loaded with bullets up to 245gr. The 10mm can be used to successfully hunt medium size game such as deer and black bears at modest ranges inside 100y, and depending on skill, can be taken to a little beyond that. GT has a user that killed a mule deer at 120y with a 10mm.
The 10mm is not for everyone, same as the 41 Magnum isn't for everyone. To realize the versatility of the 10mm, one has to handload for it. You will have a new appreciation for the cartridge.
If one is only looking to provide for home and/or personal defense, then the 40S&W is probably a better choice than the 10mm. When hunting comes into play, even small game, then the 10mm is the winner hands down. I hunted coyotes with my 4" 10mm 1911 loaded with my 155gr XTP @ 1400fps loads. That round is a brutal combination. I've shot yotes between the shoulders and it zipped right down their spine. Opened them up like a book.
I apologize for saying so much. Two cartridges that I'm very passionate about and can go on and on about are the 10mm and the 45/70. Read my license plate below.
FieroCDSP
Member
"Short and Weak?" Ask anyone who's had a KB whether it's weak or not.
Really, the recoil on it is heavily dependent on what gun and grip you're using. I love my 40 to death. That's not to say I'd feel undergunned with a 45 or a 9mm.
Really, the recoil on it is heavily dependent on what gun and grip you're using. I love my 40 to death. That's not to say I'd feel undergunned with a 45 or a 9mm.
freakshow10mm
member
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2008
- Messages
- 1,951
I like mini 10 millie.
EBRDude
Member
This page will answer this question for everyone.
http://mysite.verizon.net/resyx3lk/id14.html
Remember, it is humor. Don't get all mad at me.
http://mysite.verizon.net/resyx3lk/id14.html
Remember, it is humor. Don't get all mad at me.
looked pretty weak compared to the 10mm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fuh5sYx9ww&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fuh5sYx9ww&feature=related
It's a fine round, if you don't mind the off chance of your plastic gun designed around the 9mm Europellet going all "sploedey" on ya..... and brass life is short, if you handload to factory velocities, as it's high pressure cartridge, relative to the .45 ACP (TANSTAAFL!)....... if it trips your trigger, by all means, use it...... Just don't go all HK fanboy nuts when someone points out its faults. I think you may be investing some of your ego into your choice of cartridges..... if someone makes a dig at the "Short and Weak", it's not as if they are insulting you personally. It's just a tool, not a statement about you.
XD-40 Shooter
Member
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2007
- Messages
- 912
With longshot powder, I can push a 155 grain XTP at 1330 fps, pretty close to 10mm velocities, the gap is narrowing with powder technology. I'm a 40 S&W fan because the guns that chamber it are 9mm in size, smaller grip frames, more compact in size, yet the recoil is still not excessive. The 40 is also a fairly versatile cartridge, you can load 135 grain all the way up to 200 grain bullets. In most guns, the 40 only gives up a couple of rounds to the 9mm, but packs more punch, I'll take it.
freakshow10mm
member
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2008
- Messages
- 1,951
It scares me that some people base their cartridge selections on blasting water jugs. Great for looking cool, terrible for testing terminal ballistics.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
