Am I missing something without a 30.06?

[Rayzor]

You (Mainecoon) 22-250 for targets and a .243 for deer. How many other calibers do you keep for other critters?
I have my 30.06 and I can load lighter or heavier rounds depending on what I want to hunt and still use the same rifle.
A 30.06 is very versatile and works on woodchucks to moose.

 

[Inebriated]

Here's a hint, there is a very good reason why nobody uses a shotgun with slugs in Africa. While that massive three quarter inch bore is impressive to the eye, slugs don't have what it takes for deep penetration on heavy game. There is no magic.
There's a reason why big, dangerous critters are stopped by big, heavy rifles and not shotguns. There's a reason why they use .375's, .450/.400's, .416's, .404's, .458's, .470's and .500's. Not only do those cartridges utilize large diameter bullets but they are also heavy for their caliber. Yes, a slug will stomp a deer pretty good but they lack the sectional density that is usually required for deep penetration on heavy game. People seem to freak out when I bring up sectional density, as if I'm trying to fool them with a magic trick but SD is simply the easiest way to compare heavy bullets to one another. It is very well proven what cartridges work best on the heaviest of game. The one thing they all have in common is that they use toughly constructed, large diameter bullets but that isn't enough. They must also be heavy for their diameter and the number we use to determine that is sectional density. I'm sorry but it is not an earth shattering revelation that a shotgun slug with a sectional density from .117 (1oz Foster) to a best of .233 (Dixie Terminator) is not going to penetrate as well as a .450/.400 slinging a 400gr with an SD of .338, the .416Rigby slinging a 400gr with an SD of .330 or a .458 slinging a 500gr with an SD of .350.

In penetration testing, shotgun slugs penetrate how we should expect them to. Comparable to handgun bullets of comparable SD and velocity. They just make a bigger hole.

And here's a hint for you, Craig, if you compare foster slugs, sure, they're like big handgun bullets. But how about we look at a load that is actually comparable to the big bores? A 600gr sabot has effectively the same sectional density as a 540gr .458 bullet. .343 vs. .363. A 600gr sabot can get to be driven to at least 1890fps (referencing Lightfield's Commander 3.5" 12 gauge load). If you look at Garrett's .45-70 load for a 540gr bullet, it's going 1550fps. In the .458 Win Mag, a 500gr bullet is going 2150 (referencing Double Tap). Stop making generalizations to suit your argument, and please stop throwing around words like "magic" and "myth" like everyone has fooled themselves, and you're the only one who sees the light.

 

[Bobson]

Geez. I've been planning on getting another .270 for my next rifle, but now I know what I actually need to get is a 30-06. Glad I read this.

 

[back40]

it's funny how this thread was started about the 30-06, and now we have discussion about how shotguns aren't good for predators because they aren't used in africa

ever think that some of you just like to argue rather than admit that someone else has made a valid point regarding their own personal choice?

 

[ilbob]

Everyone should have at least one 1903 variant Springfield rifle. For old times sake if nothing else.

 

[CraigC]

...if you compare foster slugs, sure, they're like big handgun bullets.

Fosters are not even up to a patched round ball. Nowhere near what you get from a good, standard weight handgun bullet. Much less a heavyweight.

A 600gr sabot has effectively the same sectional density as a 540gr .458 bullet. .343 vs. .363. A 600gr sabot can get to be driven to at least 1890fps (referencing Lightfield's Commander 3.5" 12 gauge load).

Obviously if you stick a smaller diameter bullet in a plastic sabot, it changes things a wee bit. Then it's no longer a 12ga (~.73cal) slug. However, those are still soft lead and designed to expand. From Lightfield's site:

"The Lightfield Commander IDS PLUS is a controlled expansion, deep penetration, “Heavy Game” slug intended for game of (300lbs or better), thus the IDS PLUS will normally shoot thru deer size game."

Good Lord, I would hope a "heavy game" slug would shoot through deer sized game. A 200gr cast .45Colt bullet at 800fps will do that.

Stop making generalizations to suit your argument...

I don't make sweeping generalizations. I try to be as specific as possible.

...please stop throwing around words like "magic" and "myth" like everyone has fooled themselves, and you're the only one who sees the light.

Hmmm....Mark Twain said it is easier to fool someone than to convince them they've been fooled. Carry on.....

 

[back40]

Carry on....

we were doing that just fine, until someone's dislike for the cartridge in question prompted them to call it "overrated". not only absurd statement on your part, but generations of gunwriters and folks far more experienced than you would disagree.

perhaps it isn't the supporters of the fine old 30-06 that are being foolish in this thread.

 

[CraigC]

I'm sorry, I thought this was a place for free exchange of ideas. My mistake. I didn't realize it was just a place for people to always agree and stroke each other's egos. I'm 'trying' to discuss cartridges and you guys want to make it personal.

PS, it ain't dislike, I just don't see what the big deal is. To me, it ain't one.

 

[Nom de Forum]

Like the .30-06 this thread just keeps on going!

Stop talking about conventional slugs intended for deer and consider slugs designed for thin skinned dangerous game (Brown Bears, Lions, etc.). They work very well. You might do a search on buckshot actually used against Brown Bears as it has actually been more effective than intuition would lead you to believe.

Jack ".270" O'Connor would probably be the first to tell you have would rather face a charging Griz with a heavy .30 caliber bullet in .30-06 than any .270 load. His love for the .270 was greatly influence by where he lived and what he hunted. Not too much Brown Bear hunting in his normal hunting grounds. He also knew the value of establishing his name tied to a great cartridge for professional reasons. It is not as if Jack did not greatly appreciate the .30-06.

CraigC how could you not anticipate making the comment the .30-06 is overrated without realizing you would be throwing gasoline on a fire? You have no reason to not expect to be singed.

 

[back40]

i didn't notice any ego stroking, just discussion surrounding what many deem to be a great, classic and versatile cartridge for north american hunting. no one ever said it was the be all end all, as that doesn't exist ( at least not in my mind).

 

[CraigC]

CraigC how could you not anticipate making the comment the .30-06 is overrated without realizing you would be throwing gasoline on a fire?

I have no problem with that but the discussion should be about the cartridges, not each other. Without snide remarks about post counts and the like.

I do think the cartridge is overrated. I think most of this worship is due to WWII GI's coming home, having spent their time in hell dependent on the `06 for their very lives. There's nothing wrong with that affection. It's not that the .30-06 is not capable of doing 'most' of what people believe. It's that there are lots of cartridges with similar capabilities. You would think that 70yrs later, we would be able to have an objective discussion about it without a mob forming. I guess not.

 

[frankenstein406]

358win or 35 whelen with a 225 grainer

 

[back40]

well, again i don't see any mob forming. i agree that there are any number of cartridges that are extremely versatile, but the '06 has history and decades of successful use behind it to keep it going. in it's class i'm not sure you can name another that does everything equally well or better, and also have such a wide range of factory ammo available all over the world. i recently read a writeup by a fella who's been to africa many times, who's convinced that the 30-06 and 375hh are the two best guns you can possibly take with you, and will handle everything you encounter.

 

[CraigC]

...but the '06 has history and decades of successful use behind it to keep it going.

And the 7x57 doesn't? What about the .308, no history or decades of use behind it? You're giving reasons as to why it's popular, nothing more. Which has nothing to do with its capability. There are plenty others like it that all do the same thing.

Fact is, if you asked this question of European hunters, you'd get a decidedly European answer. Perception is everything.

The bottom line is that it's popular but a man can very easily go all his life without one and not miss a thing.

i recently read a writeup by a fella who's been to africa many times, who's convinced that the 30-06 and 375hh are the two best guns you can possibly take with you, and will handle everything you encounter.

You could easily say the same thing about other cartridges. I hope that wasn't ad-whore Craig Boddington.

 

[back40]

a man can very easily go all his life without one and not miss a thing

this may be true, not only of the '06 but of any caliber, cartridge, firearm etc.

again, the capability of the 30-06 IS the reason it's so popular. if it didn't do all those things so well, it would've been passed up long ago. yes there are others that do the same thing, but are they as available in both off the shelf factory loadings, and platform? the 30-06 has more going for it than simply ballistics on paper.

 

[CraigC]

...the capability of the 30-06 IS the reason it's so popular.

Yes but it's not the only reason. It is one of many. Let us not pretend for one second that shooters and hunters always choose their cartridges according to capability. Lots of great, capable cartridges have gone by the wayside for myriad reasons having nothing to do with their capability. As a collective, we are a fickle bunch. Which is why I put ZERO importance on popularity.

the 30-06 has more going for it than simply ballistics on paper.

Yep, it has a lot of myth, legend and belief going for it. Which is far more powerful than paper ballistics.

 

[HammsBeer]

I have no need or desire to own a 30-06. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything by not owning a 30-06. Will probably go the rest of my life without a 30-06. I'm not a true American unless I own a 30-06. Better hurry up and get a 30-06.

 

[Sav .250]

You said,"I don`t need a 30-06." Most folks make assumptions when they know little of the subject.
Your right. you don`t need an "06.' The 243 is fine for deer and such.

 

[back40]

Yep, it has a lot of myth, legend and belief

ok, so what myths and legends do you feel are driving the demand for 30-06? can you state a few?

would you also say that .308's popularity is based in the myth that is can do everything 30-06 can do? because after all, i see that touted quite often when people recommend it, and it surely is myth, not fact.

 

[Mike1234567]

I opted for .30-06 vs. .308 Win due to it's better performance with heavier bullets... up to 240gr. Plus it can be down-loaded to less than .30-30 ballistics. Plus 110gr bullets are available for varmints. It can be loaded to be nearly perfect for anything from coyote to bison and can even save your behind from brown bear too... and most of these loads are available commercially. What other caliber can make that claim?

 

[wyohome]

I am a .308 guy. My father bought a Model 88 in .308 when I was a baby and I have shot them since. I am American enough to have once owned a 30-06 but it got stolen or misplaced and I didn't think enough of it to try to get it back. If my dad would have started me on an '06, I would be shooting them, I suppose. If there was some need in my life to launch 240 grain bullets, I would be using neither an '06 or a .308.

 

[wyohome]

More North American Elk have been killed with it since its inception than all other rifle rounds combined.

Is this actually true? I can only think of a couple of hunters that use them here, our secretary and her dad. Maybe other places they are more popular.

 

[Nom de Forum]

This is for all you guys posting the .30-06 is overrated. Until someone makes claims for the old Springfield similar to the advertised claims below I think you ought to admit it does what everyone says and does it well enough to stay popular. Not popular because it is cool and trendy but because it works. Not because it was used in two world wars because any cache from that is really about the 1903, Garand, and BAR not the cartridge. Not because young shooters and hunters who still buy -06s are conservative in choices and want to fit in with the old hands, because they don't.



They might as well have used copy that said "Weatherby magnums, what Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers wished they had."

 

[Art Eatman]

Seven pages seems like more than enough.