Any opinions on the .30 Super Carry cartridge

[tarosean]

I would like to see what people are hot rodding it out to.. It seems like it should have the case volume.

Other than that its just not available in enough platforms for me to be interested in it. See 5.7, GAP, TCM, etc.

 

[MechaDragon]

Not every new cartridge or caliber has to compete with 9mm in terms of potential popularity or equal or exceed the performance of 9mm. A new caliber isn't always going to be the right choice for everyone, but that doesn't mean it won't be the right choice for no one.

Agreed, however 30-SC has the same recoil as 9mm according to Paul Harrell and Im pretty sure his word can be trusted.

So a firearm in 9mm that is "correct" for someone is just as correct as 30-SC is. Because to shoot, they are pretty much exactly the same.

I also updated my previous reply to include some interesting math that further explains my reasoning.

Again, 30-SC is interesting, its certainly a decent concept and I understand why people would think its good. Its only once you dive into the details that you realize it offers no real benefit overall vs 9mm while also having much more expensive ammunition.

 

[TTv2]

It seems like the goal of 30 SC was to meet similar ballistics to 9mm but be able to fit 2 more rounds in roughly the same space. I live in a state that limits capacity to 10 rounds anyway. If there was a 30 SC pocket pistol out there that increased the capacity over 9mm from 6 to 8 rounds, I'd buy it, but I don't see a pistol out there like that.

I'm in the same boat and having plenty of experience with thick doublestacks and not being all that impressed with the P365 style pistols, if someone made a dedicated .30 Super single stack, I'd buy it because it would be slimmer than a single stack 9mm, but hold an extra round, maybe two.

It's the same vicious cycle I've talked about before in that the industry doesn't like taking chances on a new thing (.30 Super for this example), so they don't make new pistols in .30 Super, so people don't buy .30 Super pistols because what's available isn't to their liking, so then the execs in the industry point to that and say, "SEE! IT'S NOT SELLING! WHAT A TERRIBLE INVESTMENT!"

If it's not made, it can't be bought.

I think a compelling cartridge would be a cartridge that produces about as much muzzle energy as 380+P (between 290 - 300 ft-lbs) or has roughly the same felt recoil as 380+P but fires a bullet that penetrates deeper that 380 hollow points. I think there has to be a sectional-density sweet spot between 290 - 300 ft-lbs that yields better terminal ba;;istics han 380 ACP. In a locked-breach configuration, it would allow for a 10 ounce 5" x 4" pistol that is not punishing to shoot and performs better that current 389 cartridges.

.32 NAA - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

With a 60gr bullet this cartridge can reach 1450 fps from a 4 inch barrel. That's a bit light for my tastes, I'd rather do the 85gr Hornady XTP and that would probably drop velocity to 1150-1200 from that same barrel length, but the recoil would be less than .380 and the expansion and penetration would be more reliable and consistent as that velocity is what the Hornady XTP's are built for.

The .380 cannot propel a heavy enough bullet at the velocity required to create expansion and adequate penetration, not without sacrificing expansion diameter, which out of the .32 NAA the expansion diameter would be equal and due to better SD penetration greater.

 

[MechaDragon]

I would like to see what people are hot rodding it out to.. It seems like it should have the case volume.

Other than that its just not available in enough platforms for me to be interested in it. See 5.7, GAP, TCM, etc.

9mm has a bit more velocity but is a bit heavier so overall, the range should be pretty much identical.

 

[TTv2]

Agreed, however 30-SC has the same recoil as 9mm according to Paul Harrell and Im pretty sure his word can be trusted.

So a firearm in 9mm that is "correct" for someone is just as correct as 30-SC is. Because to shoot, they are pretty much exactly the same.

I also updated my previous reply to include some interesting math that further explains my reasoning.

Again, 30-SC is interesting, its certainly a decent concept and I understand why people would think its good. Its only once you dive into the details that you realize it offers no real benefit overall vs 9mm while also having much more expensive ammunition.

IDK, I think a slimmer single stack that holds more than a 9mm does has some benefit, namely being a lighter, easier to carry, yet accurate shooting pistol that holds more.

 

[MechaDragon]

IDK, I think a slimmer single stack that holds more than a 9mm does has some benefit, namely being a lighter, easier to carry, yet accurate shooting pistol that holds more.

Well that pretty much what the Sig P365 Series is and why its so popular. Its barely 1" wide, yet offers a 12-shot 9mm magazine because its 1.5 stack, not single or double stack. It also weighs barely 20 ounces even. Its tiny, the standard 3.1" barrel version is pocket-able in mens jeans for the most part.

Its also renown nationwide as one of the most accurate sub-compact/micro-compact handguns available on the market today.

Sig basically took the concept of a single stack 9mm and added more capacity and made it just barely large enough to feel comfortable and "shooter-friendly" in the hands of the average adult. This combination of features, capacity, accuracy, and small footprint are why it has become the best selling handgun for concealed carry in the United States, and why companies like S&W and Springfield soon copied the design with the Shield-Plus and Hellcat series very shortly afterwards.

Here is a review of my personal favorite version - the P365XL. I prefer the XL because you move up from a 3.1 to a 3.7" barrel, and the grip is slightly extended so now the natural flush-fitting magazine now gives you room for all 3 fingers, plus a slightly flared integrated mag well for faster reloads, all while still remaining a tiny, single-stack sized micro-compact:

Sig Sauer P365 XL First Shots & Impressions

The first rounds out of the new P365 xl, the bigger brother of the very popular P365 from Sig Sauer.Here is a link to donate to a local shelter in Ames Iowa ...

youtu.be

 

[Boom Vang]

I've shot the S&W Shield EZ in both 9mm and 30 SC. The latter has less felt recoil, and lower muzzle rise. (I like Paul Harrell but frankly I don't think he notices recoil in any gun). I rather like the 30 SC and bought one. My daughter prefers hammer fired guns with safeties, her favorite is a Remington R1 1911. After shooting the EZ in .30 Super Carry with thumb safety, she appreciated the lighter handier pistol. So I had to buy another one for myself . I particularly dislike "ambi" safeties - which are solely for lefties - and this one is similarly annoying, so I bought one without a thumb safety.

30 SC is not setting any sales records, but when the average customer looks at $15/box 9mm ammo and $30/box /30 SC ammo, there's no surprise why. The original "30 Super Carry" sales hype was particularly stupid, and Vista Outdoor being the arrogant near-monopoly they are, figured marketing BS would allow them to sell ammo at their regular high prices. Didn't quite work out the way they planned.

I think this cartridge and guns are better considered as .32 Magnum Automatic - that would have been a more accurate and better-sounding name than the ridiculous ad-biz misnomer .30 Super Carry. In that light, it's best compared as sort of a modern magnumized replacement of the Colt 1903 .32 Rimless Smokeless. I wish the EZ was thinner, but S&W is not John Moses Browning, and everything is over-sized these days.

I don't see the logic of the 115 grain JHP bullet in 30 SC, it just increases the recoil, and the 100 grain JHP bullet penetrates just fine in .32. If you want a 115 grain JHP bullet, get a 9mm to begin with.



The .32 Automatic loads above are handloads; but don't use them in the crack-o-matic Beretta Tomcat. The .30 (.32) Super Carry is a considerable step up in energy and expansion, although penetration is the same as it's little grandson. Note that the .30 SC Remington 100 grain JHP has the same performance as the Federal 100 grain HST load - at half the price.

Haters always gonna hate. Hopefully they don't hate the badly named 30 SC out of existence...

 

[TTv2]

Well that pretty much what the Sig P365 Series is and why its so popular. Its barely 1" wide, yet offers a 12-shot 9mm magazine because its 1.5 stack, not single or double stack.

Its also renown nationwide as one of the most accurate sub-compact/micro-compact handguns available on the market today.

Sig basically took the concept of a single stack 9mm and added more capacity and made it just barely large enough to feel comfortable and "shooter-friendly" in the hands of the average adult. This combination of features, capacity, accuracy, and small footprint are why it has become the best selling handgun for concealed carry in the United States, and why companies like S&W and Springfield soon copied the design with the Shield-Plus and Hellcat series very shortly afterwards.

Here is a review of my personal favorite version - the P365XL. I prefer the XL because you move up from a 3.1 to a 3.7" barrel, and the grip is slightly extended so now the natural flush-fitting magazine now gives you room for all 3 fingers, plus a slightly flared integrated mag well for faster reloads, all while still remaining a tiny, single-stack sized micro-compact:

Sig Sauer P365 XL First Shots & Impressions

The first rounds out of the new P365 xl, the bigger brother of the very popular P365 from Sig Sauer.Here is a link to donate to a local shelter in Ames Iowa ...

youtu.be

Ok Sig fanboy, what I described to you was a pistol dedicated to .30 Super, which means it's on a frame and uses a slide that is thinner than any 9mm pistol has ever been. The P365 is 1 inch thick, the Ruger LC9 was .9" thick, the .30 Super I'm thinking of would be .8 or .85" thick and hold more than what the LC9 does.

A pistol that's 20% thinner than the P365 isn't "pretty much what the Sig P365 Series is" it's a very different pistol to the extent that even the magazines will be very thin and also easier to carry and conceal.

 

[docbrown]

An answer to a question nobody was asking. Seems to be close to the low end 9mm and does give some additional capacity, but it really does not do anything that 9mm doesn't do. And this is coming from someone who shoots and reloads for 357 Sig and 6.5 Grendel, so I don't have an issue with oddball cartridges.

 

[TTv2]

I've shot the S&W Shield EZ in both 9mm and 30 SC. The latter has less felt recoil, and lower muzzle rise. (I like Paul Harrell but frankly I don't think he notices recoil in any gun). I rather like the 30 SC and bought one. My daughter prefers hammer fired guns with safeties, her favorite is a Remington R1 1911. After shooting the EZ in .30 Super Carry with thumb safety, she appreciated the lighter handier pistol. So I had to buy another one for myself, without a thumb safety.

30 SC is not setting any sales records, but when the average customer looks at $15/box 9mm ammo and $30/box /30 SC ammo, there's no surprise why. The original "30 Super Carry" sales hype was particularly stupid, and Vista Outdoor being the arrogant near-monopoly they are, figured marketing BS would allow them to sell ammo at their regular high prices. Didn't quite work out the way they planned.

I think this cartridge and guns are better considered as .32 Magnum Automatic - that would have been a more accurate and better-sounding name than the ridiculous ad-biz misnomer .30 Super Carry. In that light, it's best compared as sort of a modern magnumized replacement of the Colt 1903 .32 Rimless Smokeless. I wish the EZ was thinner, but S&W is not John Moses Browning, and everything is over-sized these days.

I don't see the logic of the 115 grain JHP bullet in 30 SC, it just increases the recoil, and the 100 grain JHP bullet penetrates just fine in .32. If you want a 115 grain JHP bullet, get a 9mm to begin with.

View attachment 1195434

The .32 Automatic loads above are handloads; but don't use them in the crack-o-matic Beretta Tomcat. The .30 (.32) Super Carry is a considerable step up in energy and expansion, although penetration is the same as it's little grandson. Note that the .30 SC Remington 100 grain JHP has the same performance as the Federal 100 grain HST load - at half the price.

Haters always gonna hate. Hopefully they don't hate the badly named 30 SC out of existence...

When the .30 SC was announced it was agreed near universally that the reason why it wasn't more properly called a .32 anything is because the consumer in the US, both the informed and low information types who make up the majority of the consumer, views .32 anything as small, weak, underpowered, and expensive because every gun shop employee has like this automatic reaction to .32 always costing "a buck a round!" and that's because they never buy the ammo in the quantity necessary to get bulk discount pricing.

I use to get .32 ammo online for under 40 cents/rd just 5 years ago. 40 cents is hardly close to a buck a round, but I guess compared to 9mm it may as well be to some people...

I agree with you on the 100gr loads, there's no reason to go up to 115 .30 SC when the 100gr works as well as it does and has the advantage of being lower in recoil.

85gr in a .32 Auto is a bit heavy for the caliber. I don't think I've ever even seen published data for that load.

 

[MechaDragon]

Ok Sig fanboy, what I described to you was a pistol dedicated to .30 Super, which means it's on a frame and uses a slide that is thinner than any 9mm pistol has ever been. The P365 is 1 inch thick, the Ruger LC9 was .9" thick, the .30 Super I'm thinking of would be .8 or .85" thick and hold more than what the LC9 does.

A pistol that's 20% thinner than the P365 isn't "pretty much what the Sig P365 Series is" it's a very different pistol to the extent that even the magazines will be very thin and also easier to carry and conceal.

Actually not a Sig fanboy, Ive never owned a Sig firearm of any kind, those are actual facts, you can look them up. The P365, Shield-Plus, and Hellcat are so much smaller than standard 9mm traditional compacts like mine that the carry more like a 380 Auto, thats just the way it is. Like it or not, these manufacturers have pulled that off.

I currently carry a Walther PDP Compact 4" which is a traditional double-stack like a Glock 19. While I prefer the feeling of a Walther in my hands, Im considering swapping to the P365XL because of the size difference. Printing, comfort, and weight are certainly a bit concerning with my PDP. Unfortunately I couldn't find an XL that I could try out but I was able to rent the original P365 3.1" at the range the other day, and it was pretty good.

I immediately noticed why people love the small footprint of the P365. Its quite literally about HALF the size of my PDP. 20% less size? Ya no, its definitely way smaller than that. I believe its about on par with a Glock 43 but slightly heavier, like maybe 1-2 ounces. Glock 43 has a linger barrel but is an old school single stack with only 6 rounds capacity with flush mags.

I encourage you to go try one before you talk trash on it. Theres a very good reason why it quickly became the best selling handgun for concealed carry when it was released in 2018. I didn't realize just how good it was until I tried one either.

For those of you in mag capacity restricted states, sig even offers a pinky rest mag in the original 3.1" P365 that still only has a 10-round capacity, and of course offers the same for the XL.

 

[MechaDragon]

I've shot the S&W Shield EZ in both 9mm and 30 SC. The latter has less felt recoil, and lower muzzle rise. (I like Paul Harrell but frankly I don't think he notices recoil in any gun). I rather like the 30 SC and bought one. My daughter prefers hammer fired guns with safeties, her favorite is a Remington R1 1911. After shooting the EZ in .30 Super Carry with thumb safety, she appreciated the lighter handier pistol. So I had to buy another one for myself . I particularly dislike "ambi" safeties - which are solely for lefties - and this one is similarly annoying, so I bought one without a thumb safety.

30 SC is not setting any sales records, but when the average customer looks at $15/box 9mm ammo and $30/box /30 SC ammo, there's no surprise why. The original "30 Super Carry" sales hype was particularly stupid, and Vista Outdoor being the arrogant near-monopoly they are, figured marketing BS would allow them to sell ammo at their regular high prices. Didn't quite work out the way they planned.

I think this cartridge and guns are better considered as .32 Magnum Automatic - that would have been a more accurate and better-sounding name than the ridiculous ad-biz misnomer .30 Super Carry. In that light, it's best compared as sort of a modern magnumized replacement of the Colt 1903 .32 Rimless Smokeless. I wish the EZ was thinner, but S&W is not John Moses Browning, and everything is over-sized these days.

I don't see the logic of the 115 grain JHP bullet in 30 SC, it just increases the recoil, and the 100 grain JHP bullet penetrates just fine in .32. If you want a 115 grain JHP bullet, get a 9mm to begin with.

View attachment 1195434

The .32 Automatic loads above are handloads; but don't use them in the crack-o-matic Beretta Tomcat. The .30 (.32) Super Carry is a considerable step up in energy and expansion, although penetration is the same as it's little grandson. Note that the .30 SC Remington 100 grain JHP has the same performance as the Federal 100 grain HST load - at half the price.

Haters always gonna hate. Hopefully they don't hate the badly named 30 SC out of existence...

The recoil comparison has been said by more than just Paul, he said himself that he "concurs" with what other people have told him about the recoil.

You may feel differently about it and thats fair, but remember that placebo effect is a very real thing.

 

[Boom Vang]

When the .30 SC was announced it was agreed near universally that the reason why it wasn't more properly called a .32 anything is because the consumer in the US, both the informed and low information types who make up the majority of the consumer, views .32 anything as small, weak, underpowered, and expensive because every gun shop employee has like this automatic reaction to .32 always costing "a buck a round!" and that's because they never buy the ammo in the quantity necessary to get bulk discount pricing.

I use to get .32 ammo online for under 40 cents/rd just 5 years ago. 40 cents is hardly close to a buck a round, but I guess compared to 9mm it may as well be to some people...

I agree with you on the 100gr loads, there's no reason to go up to 115 .30 SC when the 100gr works as well as it does and has the advantage of being lower in recoil.

85gr in a .32 Auto is a bit heavy for the caliber. I don't think I've ever even seen published data for that load.

Except in the fertile minds of gun writing shills, I never heard any such "universal agreement" about the .32 calibre. I suppose those same folks never heard of the .32 H&R Magnum or .327 Federal Magnum. Most modern "gunsumers" don't even know what a .32 calibre is, nor a wadcutter bullet, nor have ever fired a revolver. If it's not .223, 9mm or 6.5 Creemor, they never heard of it. Sorry, but calling a .32 a ".30" is just more disingenuous stupidity from the usual suspects.

There is plenty of data available for 75-90 grain bullets in .32 Auto, but you're not going to find it on at the usual places. Try a search on the castboolit forum where there are many knowledgeable reloaders, with long experience in the industry, writing as shooters, not company reps. Been using these loads for years with no ill effects in the Colt. Same could be said of other stout Euro guns such as the Walther PP. In the pipsqueaks (P32, Tomcat, etc), loads not exceeding 130 fpe are a prudent idea.

 

[Boom Vang]

The recoil comparison has been said by more than just Paul, he said himself that he "concurs" with what other people have told him about the recoil.

You may feel differently about it and thats fair, but remember that placebo effect is a very real thing.

So what did you think when you shot them side by side?

Opinions vary, but someone wants to dislike something, that hate effect is very real thing.

 

[fxvr5]

I think the 30 SC is an excellent idea and round. The designers produced a powerful round and with good HP bullets performs on par with the 9mm. The bonus is you get more ammo in the same gun than the 9mm. It does exactly what they set out to do.

 

[MechaDragon]

So what did you think when you shot them side by side?

Opinions vary, but someone wants to dislike something, that hate effect is very real thing.

Oh I haven't shot 30-SC myself, Im just the messanger. Nobody I know in my area even owns a 30-SC. Pretty sure most of my range buddies have never even heard of the cartridge yet.

Someone wants to dislike something then hate effect is a real thing? I get that it was supposed to be like the opposite of what I said but honestly that made no sense whatsoever lol.

Dislike and hatred are very different things, and I never said I disliked the idea of 30-SC, I just don't understand the point of it. Again - for like the 20th time - cool concept, no real tangible benefit. Now if it had higher velocity with pointier bullets that had better ballistic coefficients over 9mm while retaining that same recoil - NOW we can talk about a real reason to actually consider switching over. Unfortunately, that just isn't the case.

Everyone keeps saying "its amazing you get the footprint of a single stack 9mm but with way more capacity hooray" and Im like "Ya, so what? The Sig P365 and Springfield Hellcat and S&W Shield Plus already do that exact same thing so why should I care? Why Should anyone care?"

Thats pretty much my take on it. And while some GunTubers are purely for entertainment, some of them are true professionals and you can trust what they say is true. Just don't ever expect to shoot as well as Paul Harrell and the like lol .

I wonder if there will be very strange loads someday like civil defense has in 9mm and 10mm. 2000 FPS and 2400 FPS respectively from a 4" barrel - holy hell. Super lightweight projectiles though. The civil Defense 10mm is 65-grain and I think the 9mm is around 50 or so grain.

 

[TTv2]

Actually not a Sig fanboy, Ive never owned a Sig firearm of any kind, those are actual facts, you can look them up. The P365, Shield-Plus, and Hellcat are so much smaller than standard 9mm traditional compacts like mine that the carry more like a 380 Auto, thats just the way it is. Like it or not, these manufacturers have pulled that off.

I currently carry a Walther PDP Compact 4" which is a traditional double-stack like a Glock 19. While I prefer the feeling of a Walther in my hands, Im considering swapping to the P365XL because of the size difference. Printing, comfort, and weight are certainly a bit concerning with my PDP. Unfortunately I couldn't find an XL that I could try out but I was able to rent the original P365 3.1" at the range the other day, and it was pretty good.

I immediately noticed why people love the small footprint of the P365. Its quite literally about HALF the size of my PDP. 20% less size? Ya no, its definitely way smaller than that. I believe its about on par with a Glock 43 but slightly heavier, like maybe 1-2 ounces. Glock 43 has a linger barrel but is an old school single stack with only 6 rounds capacity with flush mags.

I encourage you to go try one before you talk trash on it. Theres a very good reason why it quickly became the best selling handgun for concealed carry when it was released in 2018. I didn't realize just how good it was until I tried one either.

For those of you in mag capacity restricted states, sig even offers a pinky rest mag in the original 3.1" P365 that still only has a 10-round capacity, and of course offers the same for the XL.

I have two questions for you:

1. Do you know what a Ruger LC9 is?

2. Do you or have you ever played Call of Duty?

 

[MechaDragon]

I have two questions for you:

1. Do you know what a Ruger LC9 is?

2. Do you or have you ever played Call of Duty?

1.) Of course I do, a tiny single stack classic like the Glock 43. Whats its capacity? I think like 6 or 7 rounds right? See thats what made the 1.5 stack design special when Sig invented it with the P365. Basically the same footprint as the LC9, but you get 10 or 12 rounds depending on if you want a pinky rest or not. The P365 is literally the same size, just like an ounce or two heavier for the extra capacity.

2.) Of course I have, though not in a long time. I grew up playing it with friends sure. As I got older and started getting into PC building and RC cars I got bored of the same old CoD. By the time I was 18 me and friends had been playing the same game for what, essentially 10 years? I honestly can't believe we didn't get bored of it earlier lol. Its literally the same thing every year with some updated graphics and maybe 2 or 3 new guns. Wooo, so much fun lol. Now days I might jump on my old Black Ops 3 thats still installed on Steam maybe once every 6 months or so just to gun down some zombies. Its the only thing I even enjoy in CoD anymore - good ol' classic Nazi Zombies mode.

As I got older, bought my first gun in real life, started building my own PCs and building hobby-grade RCs and started playing video games less and less, I started choosing more unique, mind-challenging, and nerdy video games. Ever heard of Kerbal Space Program? Actual realistic physics and space flight simulation, you have to actually calculate your trajectories and burning of fuel. Highly recommended, so satisfying after you peak the learning curve.

As for the other hobby, also highly recommended, great community surrounded by wonderful and friendly people. These are not your typical Walmart RC cars. These things can do highway speeds, based on the same battery and motor technology as Tesla Automobiles. They have adjustable oil-filled suspension and differentials, and modern electronics have gyros and accelerometers that can offer active control assistance like your real car. Check this out, I actually own this same exact model, although this guy pushes his to the very limits for the YouTube views. Shows what they can do though. Those aircraft-grade 7075 aluminum parts make a big difference:

"SILVER BULLETS" ARRMA Kraton EXB 6s 9mm M2C towers...

Another full beefcake option for the already tough ARRMA EXB platform. Here's some hardcore testing of the new M2C Racing EXB Kraton 6s towers. Both front an...

youtu.be

So what, you are just another fool who blindly assumes I have no idea what Im talking about? Is that what this is? Sorry to burst your bubble but Im no "young punk". Yes I have shot plenty of guns, but not tons either. Plenty of 9mm, 380, 40S&W, 45ACP, 556, 762, 308, 12GA and 410GA. So Im well versed in the typical cartridges, unfortunately haven't owned many of them myself thanks to other hobbies that are obviously expensive
RC cars are $1000-$2000 each once you put a few upgrades into them and the batteries don't last forever and need to be replaced every few years and are about $100 each themselves, and also you need to maintain the vehicles as well.

But thats alright, I just use my buddies AKs and ARs. They don't mind in fact they encourage me to join them as often as possible. Funny how having friends changes things, doesn't it?

Honestly considering a 9mm or 10mm PCC and 6.5G SBR for myself, maybe another 22LR plinker. They are fun and cheap so why the hell not. IDK, my buddy Timmy served in the Marines so Im probably gonna run my ideas by him first just to see what he thinks. Oh and of course thinking about swapping my CCW but point is Ive never owned more than 5 firearms at a time myself, but I have shot plenty.

 

[TTv2]

1.) Of course I do, a tiny single stack classic like the Glock 43. Whats its capacity? I think like 6 or 7 rounds right? See thats what made the 1.5 stack design special when Sig invented it with the P365. Basically the same footprint as the LC9, but you get 10 or 12 rounds depending on if you want a pinky rest or not. The P365 is literally the same size, just like an ounce or two heavier for the extra capacity.

LC9 is 7 rds w/ flush fit, 9 w/ extended and your comparison to the G43 is inaccurate, the LC9 was thinner and my point is you take that and do a dedicated .30 SC that makes it even thinner and the capacity is upped to 8 rds, maybe 9 w/ a flush fit mag and a definite 10 with an extended mag you're getting a vastly different pistol with a decent capacity that carries better than the 365 and similar pistols and given the slimness might even help female shooters or those with small hands shoot better.

But, go ahead, write that off because the 365 is the best thing since sliced bread.

2.) Of course I have, though not in a long time. I grew up playing it with friends sure. As I got older and started getting into PC building and RC cars I got bored of the same old CoD. By the time I was 18 me and friends had been playing the same game for what, essentially 10 years? I honestly can't believe we didn't get bored of it earlier lol. Its literally the same thing every year with some updated graphics and maybe 2 or 3 new guns. Wooo, so much fun lol. Now days I might jump on my old Black Ops 3 thats still installed on Steam maybe once every 6 months or so just to gun down some zombies. Its the only thing I even enjoy in CoD anymore - good ol' classic Nazi Zombies mode.

As I got older, bought my first gun in real life, started building my own PCs and building hobby-grade RCs and started playing video games less and less, I started choosing more unique, mind-challenging, and nerdy video games. Ever heard of Kerbal Space Program? Actual realistic physics and space flight simulation, you have to actually calculate your trajectories and burning of fuel. Highly recommended, so satisfying after you peak the learning curve.

As for the other hobby, also highly recommended, great community surrounded by wonderful and friendly people. These are not your typical Walmart RC cars. These things can do highway speeds, based on the same battery and motor technology as Tesla Automobiles. They have adjustable oil-filled suspension and differentials, and modern electronics have gyros and accelerometers that can offer active control assistance like your real car. Check this out, I actually own this same exact model, although this guy pushes his to the very limits for the YouTube views. Shows what they can do though. Those aircraft-grade 7075 aluminum parts make a big difference:

"SILVER BULLETS" ARRMA Kraton EXB 6s 9mm M2C towers...

Another full beefcake option for the already tough ARRMA EXB platform. Here's some hardcore testing of the new M2C Racing EXB Kraton 6s towers. Both front an...

youtu.be

So what, you are just another fool who blindly assumes I have no idea what Im talking about? Is that what this is? Sorry to burst your bubble but Im no "young punk". Yes I have shot plenty of guns, but not tons either. Plenty of 9mm, 380, 40S&W, 45ACP, 556, 762, 308, 12GA and 410GA. So Im well versed in the typical cartridges, unfortunately haven't owned many of them myself thanks to other hobbies that are obviously expensive
RC cars are $1000-$2000 each once you put a few upgrades into them and the batteries don't last forever and need to be replaced every few years and are about $100 each themselves, and also you need to maintain the vehicles as well.

But thats alright, I just use my buddies AKs and ARs. They don't mind in fact they encourage me to join them as often as possible. Funny how having friends changes things, doesn't it?

Honestly considering a 9mm or 10mm PCC and 6.5G SBR for myself, maybe another 22LR plinker. They are fun and cheap so why the hell not. IDK, my buddy Timmy served in the Marines so Im probably gonna run my ideas by him first just to see what he thinks. Oh and of course thinking about swapping my CCW but point is Ive never owned more than 5 firearms at a time myself, but I have shot plenty.

tl;dr

 

[LV Gun]

Any opinions on the .30 Super cartridge?

Came across an ad for a S&W M&P in .30 Super Carry that's about half the price of M&Ps chambered in larger rounds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30_Super_Carry

It was of some interest to me but then I thought about my 45 super and that killed the interest, it reminds me to much of 45 super great cartridge big performance but basically no interest and it will chamber in a 45 auto which could be disastrous. I just feel the 30 super carry will go the way of the 45 super not enough guns chambered in it and just not enough interest in it especially since it has to compete with the 9mm just like the 327 magnum has to compete with the 9mm and look where it is.

 

[MechaDragon]

LC9 is 7 rds w/ flush fit, 9 w/ extended and your comparison to the G43 is inaccurate, the LC9 was thinner and my point is you take that and do a dedicated .30 SC that makes it even thinner and the capacity is upped to 8 rds, maybe 9 w/ a flush fit mag and a definite 10 with an extended mag you're getting a vastly different pistol with a decent capacity that carries better than the 365 and similar pistols and given the slimness might even help female shooters or those with small hands shoot better.

But, go ahead, write that off because the 365 is the best thing since sliced bread.


tl;dr

So you do realize that the P365 is also a very popular choice for women, right? Of course there are also extended mags for the Ruger, theres extended mags for just about everything. The point is the 1.5 stack allows for more capacity in a tiny form factor.

Keep in mind that the 12 round mag isn't even an extension, thats standard, it comes with the P365 when you buy it, its just long enough to have a pinky rest and thats it, otherwise if you are comfortable with only two fingers on the grip you can go with the flush 10-round.

And no, the LC9 doesn't carry all that differently than the P365 (at least the original smaller 3.1" barrel version, that is) and thats why people like it, men and women alike.

You seem to have forgotten that this isn't just my opinion, this is the opinion of the people of these United States - as a whole. You don't just end up with the most popular and best selling firearm in the modern age for no reason - so think about that for a minute.

And of course these days there is plenty of competition. The Springfield Hellcat and S&W Shield Plus are just the two most popular alternatives. They also use 1.5 stack magazines.

You see the P365 and other 1.5 stack handguns dont carry much differently than the LC9 for a simple reason - the thickness of the slide. The LC9 has a thickness around 1" just like the P365. So sig took a look at that and said "why don't we make the grip the same thickness" and then the 1.5 stack was essentially born.

Here, I pulled up dimensions so you can see just how close the P365 really gets to the LC9:

LC9: OAL 6", thickness 0.9", Height 4.5", weight 17.2 ounces. 6-Round Capacity.

P365: OAL 5.8", thickness 1.0", height 4.3", weight 17.8 ounces. 10-Round Capacity.

Bonus: P365-XL Specs:
OAL 6.6", Thickness 1.1", Height 4.8", weight 20.7 ounces. Of course this has the longer 3.7" barrel and flush mag is 12-round instead of 10.

But the LC9 flush mag is 6 rounds, the P365 flush mag is 10 rounds. Hmmm, starting to sound an awful lot like 30 Super Carry, isn't it? Except these are all 9mm handguns.

The P365-XL is in a size category that is completely unique. Its larger than a micro-compact single stack, yet smaller than a traditional double-stack Sub-Compact like my original CCW - the Walther PPQ Sub-Compact LE Edition 3.5" barrel. Some competitors have joined like Springfields Hellcat PRO but they are few and far between and don't shoot as well nor have as many features.

Perhaps this will finally get the point across. Here is a link to the specs:

P365 OPTIC READY

America’s #1 selling micro-compact pistol, now optic-ready from the factory.

www.sigsauer.com

 

[TTv2]

So you do realize that the P365 is also a very popular choice for women, right? Of course there are also extended mags for the Ruger, theres extended mags for just about everything. The point is the 1.5 stack allows for more capacity in a tiny form factor.

Keep in mind that the 12 round mag isn't even an extension, thats standard, it comes with the P365 when you buy it, its just long enough to have a pinky rest and thats it, otherwise if you are comfortable with only two fingers on the grip you can go with the flush 10-round.

And no, the LC9 doesn't carry all that differently than the P365 (at least the original smaller 3.1" barrel version, that is) and thats why people like it, men and women alike.

And of course these days there is plenty of competition. The Springfield Hellcat and S&W Shield Plus are just the two most popular alternatives. They also use 1.5 stack magazines.

You see the P365 and other 1.5 stack handguns dont carry much differently than the LC9 for a simple reason - the thickness of the slide. The LC9 has a thickness around 1" just like the P365. So sig took a look at that and said "why don't we make the grip the same thickness" and then the 1.5 stack was essentially born.

Here, I pulled up dimensions so you can see just how close the P365 really gets to the LC9:

LC9: OAL 6", thickness 0.9", Height 4.5", weight 17.2 ounces. 6-Round Capacity.

P365: OAL 5.8", thickness 1.0", height 4.3", weight 17.8 ounces. 10-Round Capacity.

Bonus: P365-XL Specs:
OAL 6.6", Thickness 1.1", Height 4.8", weight 20.7 ounces. Of course this has the longer 3.7" barrel and flush mag is 12-round instead of 10.

But the LC9 flush mag is 6 rounds, the P365 flush mag is 10 rounds. Hmmm, starting to sound an awful lot like 30 Super Carry, isn't it? Except these are all 9mm handguns.

The P365-XL is in a size category that is completely unique. Its larger than a micro-compact single stack, yet smaller than a traditional double-stack Sub-Compact like my original CCW - the Walther PPQ Sub-Compact LE Edition 3.5" barrel. Some competitors have joined like Springfields Hellcat PRO but they are few and far between and don't shoot as well nor have as many features.

Perhaps this will finally get the point across. Here is a link to the specs:

P365 OPTIC READY

America’s #1 selling micro-compact pistol, now optic-ready from the factory.

www.sigsauer.com

Firstly, your data on the LC9 capacity is wrong and you've repeatedly stated it that the magazine holds 6 rounds. It holds 7.

Second, I'm talking about a theoretical pistol that's even thinner than an LC9 that's in .30 Super, it would be a pistol built from the ground up as .30 Super. You keep bringing up and talking about a pistol that I used as a reference (the LC9), not the actual pistol I have described and are focusing on using dimensions and capacities of the LC9 that is larger and holds less rounds to emphasize how much worse it is than the P365.

You seem to have a pattern of using incorrect data and statistics to further a narrative that comes off as an emotional attachment to a certain object and less one based in facts.

Unless you want to say a pistol thinner than the LC9 and the P365 wouldn't carry differently, then by all means please make that statement. I'm sure everyone else here is all ears.

You seem to have forgotten that this isn't just my opinion, this is the opinion of the people of these United States - as a whole. You don't just end up with the most popular and best selling firearm in the modern age for no reason - so think about that for a minute.

You clearly have an affinity for repeating that the P365 is the "most popular" whatever and that seems to affect much of your thought processes that if something isn't the most popular it's a failure or somehow defective and thus is a terrible choice.

That may indeed be the case for YOU; anything in .30 Super and not a P365 in 9mm would be an awful choice for YOU, but that doesn't mean it's a terrible choice for everyone and anyone. My concept super slim .30 Super single stack pistol would work for ME and others in this topic have stated they too would be interested in such a pistol. Me and those others would be in a minority, but self defense isn't a popularity contest, if it was there wouldn't be a right to carry outside the home, it's an individual right and each individual finds what works better for them and what doesn't.

 

[MechaDragon]

Firstly, your data on the LC9 capacity is wrong and you've repeatedly stated it that the magazine holds 6 rounds. It holds 7.

Second, I'm talking about a theoretical pistol that's even thinner than an LC9 that's in .30 Super, it would be a pistol built from the ground up as .30 Super. You keep bringing up and talking about a pistol that I used as a reference (the LC9), not the actual pistol I have described and are focusing on using dimensions and capacities of the LC9 that is larger and holds less rounds to emphasize how much worse it is than the P365.

You seem to have a pattern of using incorrect data and statistics to further a narrative that comes off as an emotional attachment to a certain object and less one based in facts.

Unless you want to say a pistol thinner than the LC9 and the P365 wouldn't carry differently, then by all means please make that statement. I'm sure everyone else here is all ears.



You clearly have an affinity for repeating that the P365 is the "most popular" whatever and that seems to affect much of your thought processes that if something isn't the most popular it's a failure or somehow defective and thus is a terrible choice.

That may indeed be the case for YOU; anything in .30 Super and not a P365 in 9mm would be an awful choice for YOU, but that doesn't mean it's a terrible choice for everyone and anyone. My concept super slim .30 Super single stack pistol would work for ME and others in this topic have stated they too would be interested in such a pistol. Me and those others would be in a minority, but self defense isn't a popularity contest, if it was there wouldn't be a right to carry outside the home, it's an individual right and each individual finds what works better for them and what doesn't.

Sorry I screwed up with the ruger mag, whatever. P365 is 10+1, and the P365-XL is 12+1. I wasn't including the +1, just the magazine itself.

Sure, you want to have your ultra-slim 30-SC then by all means, go for it. I was literally just showing you that the LC9 carries exactly the same as the P365 but the P365 has much more capacity, so there you go.

Thats it man, you do you, have fun with the 30-SC, my mags already have enough capacity.

And again, the most popular thing is a fact, not an opinion. You can care about it or not care about it. That parts up to you but its a FACT. Thats all I was saying.

You seem to project the idea that Im somehow projecting when Im literally just stating facts. Whatever man, Im not gonna bother replying to you anymore.

I have no emotional attachment to anything, stop projecting your BS onto other people. I'm actually considering alternatives to the p365 but it makes the most sense to use it as an example because it's the most popular.

Also if I have some sort of emotional attachment to the p365 then clearly you have one for 30 super carry So stop acting like you're special when you are literally just doing the same thing I am.

 

[tarosean]

Ive never owned a Sig firearm of any kind

Errr.. You have never owned one and are expounding the 365s virtues countless times?
Is that correct?

 

[MechaDragon]

Right So I'm going to go ahead and unwatch this thread because I'm pretty much over it at this point.

30 Super Carry - interesting caliber, at least somebody's trying to innovate. But I just see very limited/minimal advantages over 9mm.

If some numbnuts wants an extremely thin handgun then I guess go for it but I'm pretty sure he's going to realize soon enough that barrels and slides have a minimum thickness they need in order to function and be reliable and not break into pieces so at best the most narrow 30-SC handgun will be about the same width as narrow 380 Auto options which is not only a very minimal improvement over narrow 9mm options but also presents a problem if you are an adult with adult sized hands.

Gripping a narrow/slim single or 1.5 stack 9mm with proper authority and control is already somewhat difficult, even for a lot of women. So I'm not sure who in there right mind would want to make that grip even smaller unless they have the hands of an 8-year-old.

So in my mind, where 30-SC has its only real, genuine advantage over 9mm is in double stack magazines. Because now all of a sudden, you can have a double stack that is closer to the size of a 1.5 stack in 9mm.

This is the one and only tangible, meaningful improvement that 30-SC brings to the table. And while that is a noticeable improvement, it's not enough to outweigh the negatives of the new caliber.

Its less powerful and effective than 9mm. Am I saying that 30-SC is ineffective? No, absolutely not. But if an attacker high on drugs takes four rounds of 9mm to incapacitate, You might need a 5th round with 30-SC.

Mayby one day, some hotter +P defensive loads will make a stronger case for 30-SC But for now that simply isn't the case.

As for magazine capacity, while 30-SC clearly wins, it Only makes up for the loss of power enough to equalize with 9mm overall.

Modern 1.5 stack Micro-9's from the original Sig P365 to the just recently released FN Reflex - offer us well more than enough capacity in the same form factor as a Glock 43 or Ruger LC-9 traditional single stack micro with the average capacity being 12 rounds.

You can look up defensive shooting statistics, and they will tell you that the average self-defense situation is resolved with 5-6 shots. So if you purchase a 1.5 stack 9mm and Carrie an additional magazine, you have the ability to deal with 4 different incidents or 4 assailants at the same time granted you are skilled enough to be able to defend yourself in a four-on-one gunfight.

So with modern advancements in 9mm handguns and what they can offer in terms of size to performance ratio - To me the benefits of 9mm VASTLY out-weigh the benefits of 30-SC At this time and probably for the foreseeable future.

If 30-SC had more powerful loads and much cheaper training ammunition, then I would say my opinion would be much more split and it would be much harder to decide. But the cost of ammunition is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT for MOST people because you need to practice with your concealed carry firearm on at LEAST a semi-regular basis to remain adequately prepared for if and when a deadly situation approaches you.

With 30-SC ammunition costing so much more than 9mm even for cheap training ammunition, There are not enough major benefits to justify a consideration of switching from 9mm At this point in time.

Finally, one last reason to not really consider switching at this time is because we haven't really seen any radical designs in 30-SC yet. Thus far, the designs available are pretty much just carbon copies of existing 9mm compact and microcompact handgun designs simply rechambered in 30-SC.

So that's it, that's why I think you should just stick to 9mm For now, and wait to see how 30-SC plays out and develops in the future. Especially if you already own a 9mm That works well for you and fulfills your requirements well enough.

You gentlemen enjoy your discussion, I'm out at this point.