deadin
Member
What legitamate reason would a person have to carry either around a gunshow?
Same reason you give for carrying a loaded concealed one.
What legitamate reason would a person have to carry either around a gunshow?
Same reason you give for carrying a loaded concealed one
Would you guys also be OK with carrying loaded rifles and loaded, unholstered handguns?
I didn't ignore anything you said.
1) You've said you carry at gunshows, against the wishes of the show promoter. ... You don't like his rules, don't pay his entry fee, don't attend his event.
2) You do not obey the rules of any competition I've ever been to. ...
I'm not GUILTY of anything. I've broken no laws. I cannot be "GUILTY" of violating a policy. If I am "dishonest" with a show promotor by remaining privately armed in his event, so be it. I hate to be dishonest, but it is a compromise that I make willfully.I'm not guilty until I get caught is a common criminals excuse. It's facetious at best and dishonest in the least. If you were being honest and above board, you'd declare you were carrying before you entered a shooting event or a gun show. In both cases, they'd tell you to disarm or leave.
Let's be very realistic. People who successfully and discretely carry a concealed personal protection firearm where they've been requested to unload weapons are most assuredly NOT the "worst risk for our community." That's a pretty silly statement.People who think the rules don't apply to them are the worst risk for our community.
What legitamate reason would a person have to carry either around a gunshow?
Same reason you give for carrying a loaded concealed one.
You have threechoices; 1)Comply or 2)Don't go inor 3)simply proceed with your business without affecting or harming anyone in any way.
There is no justification at all for bringing a concealed weapon into ANY private establishment if such is prohibited. It's not your property. Your rights come 2nd to the property owner.
a seller at a show had his "personal, no way in hell, you don't have enough money to even look at" 1911a1 concealed. ... he opened his fanny pac, removed the 1911, ... pulled the trigger...He is now "banned" from the show.
We should merge this thread with all the ones about dangerous idiots at the range and then it will be clear why loaded guns aren't allowed at gun shows.
I do have the ability to make that third choice.
Thanks, I appreciate that. As I said pretty far back, mudslinging distracts from the meat of the debate and no one learns anything.Sam, I'll try to be as respectful as possible here.
No. I have no compelling reason to do so. Using a cell phone is not an enumerated right, and I am not aided in preserving my life or my family's life by doing so. Note, that I also do not demand my right to USE my gun in a gun show. But I will have it secured about me, ready for "the gravest extreme" if it is legal for me to do so.Are you also one of those "independent souls" that feels it is OK to leave their cell phone on in an airplane? "I KNOW it is an FAA scam!!!!"
I generally do not speed anywhere. And, operating a motor vehicle on a public road, or someone elses' private road is not an enumerated right, nor does it (generally) aid the preservation of my life or that of my family to drive recklessly.Do you also speed down private neighborhood streets? "These streets are HOA! The speed limit signs are not legally binding!!"
What is the compelling reason to use the phone in the theatre? I do leave it on, but on "SILENT". Disturbing the movie would be rude.Do you leave your cell phone on in the theatre? Do you park in handicap spaces?
There are many I don't care for. Only a few I don't follow, after heavy consideration. And, further, LAWS are not among them.Just trying to get a sense for which "rules" YOU think are OK and will follow, and which rules YOU don't like and will not follow.
Obviously, I do. My state's laws say that I do.No...you don't.I do have the ability to make that third choice.
Again, let's refrain from slinging mud. The logic of my position is pretty sound, I think. You disagree with me. Let's keep it on that level, ok?Again, with due respect, your logic is complete rubbish. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what "rights" are and when and where you get them.
You feel strongly that this is so. I do not.While you may have a right to defend yourself, the property owner also has a right to determine who, and under what conditions people are allowed to attend his event. Only the most arrogant (or a Democrat) [EEK! An insult! I'm offended! ... Naah, just kidding.]would suppose his rights trumps someone elses. As someone else pointed out; either obey the rules or go somewhere else. Since you are asking to "play" at his event, in this case his right to disarm you trumps your right to carry.
Be careful stating legal positions like this. In my state this is completely untrue. If I expose my weapon, the owner may choose to ask me to leave. At that point I am free to do so. If I refuse, THEN I would be tresspassing. This is not a gray area, but a very clear one, legally speaking.If you choose to ignore his conditions, you are instantly guilty of trespassing. If he chooses, he can have you arrested. You would have no case.
I do not view my personal protection weapon as falling under the purvue of his rights. Remember, my rights stop at the tip of your nose. Don't put your nose in my pants and we haven't offended each other.For someone who keeps talking about his "rights", why are you so willing to abdicate your neighbor's rights? It is rude, self-cenrtered, ill-informed and certainly not "the high-road".
the property owner also has a right to determine who, and under what conditions people are allowed to attend his event. Only the most arrogant (or a Democrat) would suppose his rights trumps someone elses. As someone else pointed out; either obey the rules or go somewhere else. Since you are asking to "play" at his event, in this case his right to disarm you trumps your right to carry. If you choose to ignore his conditions, you are instantly guilty of trespassing. If he chooses, he can have you arrested. You would have no case.
For someone who keeps talking about his "rights", why are you so willing to abdicate your neighbor's rights? It is rude, self-cenrtered, ill-informed and certainly not "the high-road".
How about loaded open carry in a holster?
If we are going to argue what's against the LAW vs. what's posted by the gun show, open carry is perfectly legal in a lot of States. Therefore you should be able to use the same logic with the door guard at a show.
If you are correct, they should have to let you in, concealed or open, just as long as it never comes out of the holster.
What happens, btw, when you agree to disarm yourself and you're sitting there eating dinner with your family and somebody comes in with violence in mind and starts shooting the place up? While statistically unlikely, it's happened.
There was a big sign on the entrance that read "Your CCW Permit Is Not Honored Here".
(430 ILCS 65/2) (from Ch. 38, par. 83‑2)
Sec. 2. Firearm Owner's Identification Card required; exceptions.
(a) (1) No person may acquire or possess any firearm,
stun gun, or taser within this State without having in his or her possession a Firearm Owner's Identification Card previously issued in his or her name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of this Act.
(2) No person may acquire or possess firearm
ammunition within this State without having in his or her possession a Firearm Owner's Identification Card previously issued in his or her name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of this Act.
(430 ILCS 65/3) (from Ch. 38, par. 83‑3)
Sec. 3. (a) Except as provided in Section 3a, no person may knowingly transfer, or cause to be transferred, any firearm, firearm ammunition, stun gun, or taser to any person within this State unless the transferee with whom he deals displays a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card which has previously been issued in his name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of this Act. In addition, all firearm, stun gun, and taser transfers by federally licensed firearm dealers are subject to Section 3.1.
(b) The provisions of this Section regarding the possession of firearms, firearm ammunition, stun guns, and tasers do not apply to:
(11) Unemancipated minors while in the custody and
immediate control of their parent or legal guardian or other person in loco parentis to the minor if the parent or legal guardian or other person in loco parentis to the minor has a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card;
(15) A person who is otherwise eligible to obtain a
Firearm Owner's Identification Card under this Act and is under the direct supervision of a holder of a Firearm Owner's Identification Card who is 21 years of age or older while the person is on a firing or shooting range or is a participant in a firearms safety and training course recognized by a law enforcement agency or a national, statewide shooting sports organization; and
Sam1911 said:What is the compelling reason to use the phone in the theatre?