Don't you think Open Carry is safer than CC?

[CHEVELLE427]

i don't think i would put a cage in your car
(dont know what your driving im sure it wont need one)
but the 5 point harness wont hurt, let me know if you find a deal as i need one for the chevelle,

never got around to a cage in it but it was only a 7sec 1/8 mile 100mph car in the late
70's

didn't even have an air bag either.

you still have that 40% out there

 

[Sam1911]

Now with OC that changes all these people, THAT VOTE, see them and complain they could VOTE against your right to carry that gun. Then everybody gets screwed.

Could be. Or could be that people start noticing law abiding, peaceable folks going about their business while armed and get used to the idea.

Gun owners can't hide beneath the public's radar for ever and we'll never change the world without pushing some folks a little bit outside of their comfort zone.

There are risks in keeping to the shadows. Staying on the fringe of society makes you easy to ignore and push aside.

Of course the public doesn't directly get to vote against our rights. The legislative and judicial processes that occasionally seem to stymie our progress also provide a buffer against fickle and fleeting swings of public opinion against us.

That in mind, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[22-rimfire]

As a person generally pretty familiar with guns, I would certainly prefer to open carry as it is much more comfortable to me. BUT, we live in a world where if someone sees a gun, they may get excited if they believe you aren't a LEO. Therefore, I think it best to carry concealed regardless of state law. Even if open carry is legal, you can still be charged on other charges given a problem develops because of the visible presence of the firearm.

Both approaches are safe as long as you keep your finger off the trigger and don't drop the gun assuming you are not toting a six shooter without the safety feature where the round under the hammer could go off if there was an impact to the firearm.

As far as pushing the envelope and educating the public by example on open carry, I hesitate to do this. 20 years ago I would have thought nothing of pushing it, but now, I am not interested.

 

[X-Rap]

As I look at this thread I see some differences in geography that are worth noting. In the east it is rare to see OC in my experience but the further west you get it becomes more common excluding the places that you would expect like Ca. and such. AZ had open carriers flourishing long before any CC was available as did my state of Co. up and down the Rocky Mtns. OC has been a way of life and I can't think of one old west shootout even here in the old west. Whats up with that?

 

[CHEVELLE427]

Both approaches are safe as long as you keep your finger off the trigger and don't drop the gun assuming you are not toting a six shooter without the safety feature where the round under the hammer could go off if there was an impact to the firearm.

about all i was saying , i like the oc law but don't want to oc, it would just be easer if your gun was to ever be seen by a gun scared uninformed public, and wanted to call the law because they saw someone with a gun.

 

[Mainsail]

In SC there are a lot of guns being carried CC but most people, THAT VOTE, are not seeing them or complaining about them. Now with OC that changes all these people, THAT VOTE, see them and complain they could VOTE against your right to carry that gun. Then everybody gets screwed.

That's the point I am trying to make. But unsuccessfully I'm sorry to say.

Well, if that were true it would have happened in California, but it didn’t. No other state has the right combination of bleeding hearts, favorable press (sound bites), and inability to think critically like CA. They couldn’t ban it.

Here in Washington it would take a rewriting of our State Constitution, which would not be easy.

So we’re right back to where we started. One side believes that the right is superfluous, campaigns against those that exercise the right, and don’t care if it’s banned. The rest of us view all our rights as sacred, even the ones we don’t happen to be using at the moment.

 

[Sam1911]

I am concerned about two young (or old) legally open carrying hotheads having a public shootout from the hip.

As a group those that carry firearms legally have proven themselves to be the most careful, cautious, reasonable, and law-abiding portion of our society. In fact, the rates for serious crime among those who are licensed to carry arms (and by extension, those who are open carry proponents as well) are an order of magnitude LOWER than the rates for serious crime among law enforcement officers.

So the "what if they get into a shootout with each other" hypothetical situation is far-fetched enough to disregard it out of hand.

I am interested in maintaining my carry rights. Not seeing them lost in a modern day western shootout.

EVEN IF some unfortunate situation occurs (as HAS happened occasionally between folks carrying concealed weapons) it takes more than one or two IMMENSELY rare altercations for laws to get changed against us.

The only way we can counter negative public opinion is NOT by HIDING -- but by making guns so common in the public eye that they lose their novelty. When the average suburbanite has seen a few dozen guns on the hips of their friends and neighbors they'll have a harder time thinking of them as something negative that only criminals would carry.

THAT will do more to protect your carry and gun ownership rights than hiding your piece under your jacket.

WE may not indulge in that kind of behavior. But someone else will

That's a fallacious argument. You have nothing to back up this assertion.

...the fallout will indirectly and possibly directly affect all of us.

All crime which involves a gun indirectly affects us all. The "blood in the streets" hyperbole hasn't proved true when spouted by the Bradys -- and is isn't proved true just because you're uncomfortable about open carry, either.

 

[oldbanjo]

Fourtyluv: I finally figured out what I thought you were trying to say, and your right, that's a good point.

 

[Sam1911]

and wanted to call the law because they saw someone with a gun.

See, that's fine, though. A lot of dispatchers already know to advise responding officers that no crime has been reported and a lot of officers have been educated (some by their Chiefs, some by lawsuits) that they can't hassle/detain (or certainly ARREST) a citizen who isn't breaking the law.

Yes, you stand a somewhat higher chance of chatting with a police officer about your gun if you open carry. That doesn't have to be a negative thing.

Even if open carry is legal, you can still be charged on other charges given a problem develops because of the visible presence of the firearm.

Of course, that means that you have to have committed A CRIME -- which is a good thing to avoid on general principles -- and if you do commit that CRIME, chances are your gun will be a complication whether it was concealed or openly carried.

Does pay to be mindful, regardless.

 

[fortyluv]

Quote:
WE may not indulge in that kind of behavior. But someone else will
That's a fallacious argument. You have nothing to back up this assertion.


Sam -- are you saying it is a false argument that 'we' may not indulge in that kind of behavior or that someone else will?

In either case you are correct about me having nothing to back up my assertion. I would never thought it necessary to have to back it up. If you don't believe a couple of hotheads would draw down on each other it's fine by me. I just don't live in a world where I would not expect that to happen eventually.

 

[Sam1911]

Sam -- are you saying it is a false argument that 'we' may not indulge in that kind of behavior or that someone else will?

I'm saying that it is not logical to say that someone MUST do a thing -- especially if the thing you're suggesting requires the very very worst from some very responsible and law-abiding people.

In either case you are correct about me having nothing to back up my assertion. I would never thought it necessary to have to back it up. If you don't believe a couple of hotheads would draw down on each other it's fine by me. I just don't live in a world where I would not expect that to happen eventually.

I don't see many "hotheads" choosing to open carry. I see a lot of very cautions people who are rather the most mindful of their rights and responsibilities -- even moreso than those folks who carry concealed. The old "wild wild west" stereotypes and legends are untrue. Always were, in fact.

I also said that a vanishingly rare instance of a gunfight happening between two lawful open carriers (if and when, IF and when) doesn't necessarily do our rights some irreparable harm. It would take a rash of such instances over an extended period of time for public sentiment against us to percolate through the legislative and judicial realms to the point of reversing the last few decades of our positive legal momentum.

Now, if instead of standing still and hoping to sit our our victories, we're carrying the fight forward, continuing to move both law and public opinion in our favor, it will be harder for our opponents to stop our momentum, let alone push back our prior progress.

 

[oldbanjo]

When I was in Israel eating and a man came in wearing cut offs a t shirt and carrying a machine gun I instantly stopped enjoying my meal. This would have been greatly improved if his gun had been CC.

 

[Sam1911]

When I was in Israel eating and a man came in wearing cut offs a t shirt and carrying a machine gun I instantly stopped enjoying my meal. This would have been greatly improved if his gun had been CC.

O.k. But that says more about you than his rights or the realities of the situation.

From what I understand in Israel, a certain portion of the population does choose to go armed for the protection of themselves and their fellow citizens from some very significant threats.

If a submachine gun is the proper defensive choice, I'd hate to have him forced by law to have to deploy it from under a concealment garment.

If you were exposed to firearms like that on a more regular basis, you wouldn't be so skittish around them and would probably come to appreciate the violence-deterrent effects of your fellow citizens standing visibly ready to defend.

 

[oldbanjo]

Who would have believed what McBeigh did, The DC shooter was a trained Sniper, The kids in Col. Things happen people are crazy today.

 

[oldbanjo]

I'm not skittish of nothing the problem is they all look alike and I didn't know who's side he was on. In Israel Boys are in Military 3 yrs, girls 2 yrs they must carry gun the entire, time no matter where they are, hitch hiking, at the pool, at the Wailing Wall where ever. That no way to live.

 

[X-Rap]

Sam you are dead on with that last statement. In 94 I was in Israel for about six weeks and by the time I left I thought nothing of seeing people armed with automatic weapons that spanned six decades of the country's history. When out in the desert back country it was comforting knowing that there were armed citizens around and it wasn't uncommon to see them hiking, picnicking or at the beach with full auto assault rifles. Most of their military carried their service weapons as well and it was not uncommon to see a pistol in the belt of man on the street. The facility that I was at had strong boxes in the entrance area for the man on the street to store his weapon while there visiting or working.
Banjos comparison doesn't really work for me because in Israel at that time CC was not allowed by the public and all handguns were visible to my recollection. I see his point on the machine gun being intimidating at lunch but their view was that they wanted all the guns in site.
The worst was having all those weapons and being forbiden to have our own.

 

[Sam1911]

Who would have believed what McBeigh did

McVeigh? The OK City bomber? ... right so we shouldn't open carry because he blew up a building?

The DC shooter was a trained Sniper

No he wasn't. While in the Army, Muhammad was trained as a mechanic, truck driver and specialist metalworker. He did manage to shoot Expert with the M-16.

He was about as far from legal open carry of a sidearm as possible.

The kids in Col.

Columbine? Again... what?

Things happen people are crazy today.

Is this a declaration that you've abandoned your argument? We're certainly far from any sort of relevance to the question at hand.

Ironically I think you may have helped prove my point to fortyluv: John Mohamed and Lee Malvo killed 10 people with an AR-15 rifle in 2002. The public around DC was terrified. Two years later Congress -- meeting RIGHT THERE INSIDE THE BELTWAY they'd so terrorized -- allowed the federal Assault Weapons Ban die without a whimper, removing the primary restriction on EXACTLY the kind of weapon they used in their murders.

Despite horrible things like this making months worth of front page news, our progress to roll back and improve gun laws has INCREASED dramatically during the last two decades.

Stop worrying that people won't LIKE us and help us move forward.

 

[X-Rap]

Who would have believed what McBeigh did, The DC shooter was a trained Sniper, The kids in Col. Things happen people are crazy today

None of those things are relevent and the DC killer was no trained sniper and had the kid do most of the shooting.

 

[Sam1911]

they must carry gun the entire, time no matter where they are, hitch hiking, at the pool, at the Wailing Wall where ever. That no way to live.

You're right to a point. It would suck to be REQUIRED to carry a weapon when you didn't want to.

It is wonderful to have the right to when you so choose.

 

[oldbanjo]

I was there in 91, I was not comparing CC laws, I was stating that things would have better if the gun had been out of sight.

 

[X-Rap]

I was there in 91, I was not comparing CC laws, I was stating that things would have better if the gun had been out of sight.

I understand, my point is that they work on the opposite assumtion and believe things are better in the open. They are living a totally different lifestyle there and the threat is always present, I think we might soon see a similar mindset along the border if things don't soon shape up.

 

[oldbanjo]

You are right, in that area there should be OC, and AR15's.

 

[General Geoff]

I was there in 91, I was not comparing CC laws, I was stating that things would have better if the gun had been out of sight.

Because the sight of openly carried guns makes you uneasy? That indicates a trust problem on your part, not a carry method problem on everyone else's part.

 

[Sam1911]

I was there in 91, I was not comparing CC laws, I was stating that things would have better if the gun had been out of sight.

You were where? Israel or DC? I was moving to the DC area while the shootings were going on.

And better for whom for the gun to be concealed? The guy carrying the gun? The terrorists he carries a gun to resist? Or you?

And HOW would it have been better?

"Excuse me, I'm afraid of your gun. Could you hide it from me?" What kind of fobia are we dealing with?

 

[NavyLCDR]

All this talk of open carry causing panic and 911 calls....

What needs to happen is people need to call 911. The cops need to show up. The cops need to see the open carrier, and, if they approach them at all need to be seen, in public, saying, "Well we got a 911 call about you, but we see there is nothing to be concerned about here, have a nice day!" It would go a long way to promote the positive image of guns if people started seeing that. We are never going to get to that point if we hide our guns like evil objects.

Usually, what does happen in public, though, is this:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...port........&p=1369088&viewfull=1#post1369088

Olympia:
Safeway Gas @ Cooper Point 9:30am. Had the lady in the vehicle behind me in line while I was pumping gas get out of her car and personally thanked me for carrying my weapon. She asked to shake my hand and said that she appreciated me carrying my gun in the open.

Lacey:
Harbor Freight @ Lacey Blvd 11:00ish. Went in because it was super sale day and bought some items. Gentleman approached me and said "nice XD, I carry an XD .45". Said thanks and he mentioned that he is a Thurston County Deputy. Said that he wished more people would carry and let it be known. He also mentioned that he wished more of the LEO community would just accept it and be done. He gave me his card and I let him know about this site.

The majority of comments I have gotten while open carrying are positive. And I've also had the ugly police encounter as well...