Don't you think Open Carry is safer than CC?

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All this talk of open carry causing panic and 911 calls....

What needs to happen is people need to call 911. The cops need to show up.
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Disagree. What needs to happen is for 911 operators to ask the caller if the gun is holstered, and if the carrier is doing anything actually illegal, before dispatching police officers. Statistically, a person openly carrying a holstered sidearm is far less likely to be committing or planning to commit a crime than the general populace.
 
"That’s quite a leap, and completely erroneous. It appears that you’re saying that one in five police officers are just walking along and are attacked by someone desiring to steal their sidearm. Did you apply any critical thinking to that, or can you only think in sound-bites? The truth is that ZERO in five officers were targeted for their gun; it never happens. Police officers cannot avoid trouble; they have to wade into it. They have to make arrests, wrestle, search, and handcuff people who have already displayed their preference for violence. In every case the officer’s gun was taken during the struggle to get a suspect into custody. I do not do that. I carry openly every day; I do not wrestle or arrest criminals. The comparison is inapt."

Mainsail, I am glad you were there for every one of these cases to observe that "ZERO" times did the perp come up from behind and take the cops weapon.

My point is that with a weapon in view the chances of someone grabbing your gun is infinitely higher than someone who is CC'ing.

My stats about one in five cops being killed by their own guns is a fact.

Whether a perp came up behind and saw the pistol and grabbed it or they wrestled, I dont have that data, I wasnt there and the report that I saw didn't give the details.

If you are on a crowded street with folks bumping into you constantly I would bet that you wouldnt be able to stop a determined person from grabbing your gun and using it. I may be wrong.

As I stated before, have at the OC in the country. Knock yourself out.

Many of the folks in the smaller towns have the correct view of weapons and are extremely comfortable with guns. You shouldnt have problems.

However, for those of us that found work in the metropolian areas, most of the folks in cities are terrified when someone walks in with a gun that isnt an LEO. They have been taught to do so.

Your posts on a gun board wont change that fact.

We should be thankful that we still can carry a weapon either CC or OC, especially with the current administration.

The fact is, more and more folks, especially in the high populatiion areas think poorly on guns. Our schools and media continue to portray the gun owners as gun nuts.

Currently I have a law that allows me to CCW, I like it. It works for me.

After a generation or two when we are both taking dirt naps, I fear that
our grandchildren wont have the opportunity to own guns without the votes to sway our political leaders

Then an arguement of OC or CC wont matter so much.

Vote !
Join the NRA!
Teach your kids to enjoy guns!
 
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Navy

"Which is exactly why I carry my gun on my belt and not up in everyone's face. Besides, if I duct taped my gun to my forehead, it would hurt a whole lot to get it off there"


I think that they have one of those holsters that you are talking about at Uncle Mike's
 
Im glad that I live in a rural enough area of Ky that if I choose I can carry a sixgun in a nicely tooled crossdraw holster and no one says a word, other than a rare compliment on the gun leather.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickhauler
Let's just use as a "for instance" a recent concealed carry holder using his concealed carry firearm to shoot 2 of his attackers and possibly wound the third in defense. It happened in Charlotte, NC and he's a delivery driver for Pizza Hut. He took a pistol whipping and beating at the hands of his attackers, and only used his concealed carry firearm when one of his attackers tried to pull up his shirt, which he knew would allow the bad guy to see the firearm. He felt at that point the bad guys were going to kill him and his store manager, he pulled his firearm and shot.

What would the bad guys reaction have been had they entered the store and saw him carrying openly? Since I'd say we would all agree, a robber likely is going to come in with guns drawn, ready to go, he's likely have been dropped immediately upon the robbers entering the store.
Instead of playing the what if game, how about we play the what really happened in real life game, shall we?

http://vagunforum.net/general-discus...day-t1225.html

and

http://www.ammoland.com/2009/07/19/g...rket-shooting/

From the second article, since you obviously missed it stickhauler:

Quote:
Here are my thoughts from watching that tape:

* Talk about a cold-blooded, fast attack where an innocent was shot without warning! Unbelievable. Situational awareness is really important. Luck doesn’t hurt, either.
* Open carry was an advantage in this case because in the video I saw just how fast the GO managed to draw his gun and begin to return fire. You always hear about how open carry is so bad tactically – you’ll be the first one shot, etc. Oh, yeah? The GO had a HUGE gun in plain sight and he was NOT shot. Who got shot first? An unarmed store owner.
Once again, the facts and historical data just don't support the theory.

And what else happens in real life in the real world?

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...bbery-kennesaw

According to stickhauler's theory the team casing the joint should have went out, got their friends and came back in guns blazing at the open carriers... but that's not what happened in real life.
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So then, according to you, posting 2 stories, one where the open carry guy got lucky, the second where the "recon" member of a robbery team left the place and they tried to leave proves the wisdom of open carry? I don't think so.

First off, the #1 example, the open carry holder was, according to the story, standing in line waiting to pay for his purchases. Was he carrying on the side the BG could see, or out of the BG's view? We don't know. But using either method of carry, when he observed a robbery in progress, he could have brought his firearm to action, that hardly proves open carry being more effective, or safer.

In #2, seeing 2 open carry holders sitting there, according to the story stopped the planned robbery. But, had the guy who came in to case the joint missed seeing the open carry holders, would they have left or simply proceeded to rob the place? Would the two open carry holders had a chance to stop the robbery attempt. Neither of us know. Since these guys were in the process of leaving the place when police arrived, they must not have payed much attention to the dude who came in to check the place out. Had the robbers decided to go on with their plans to rob the place, would their choice of openly carrying a firearm stopped the robbery? Or would they have been dispatched with 2 quick shots by the robbers when they entered the place?

I know what works in my town, and open carry is legal in Ohio, but I know for damned sure if I opted to open carry in an urban area like Dayton, I'd make more people anti-gun advocates than persuading them to see openly carried firearms as normal. I'd get just as many enemies to our effort by doing so down where I grew up in SE Ohio.

Why? Because those who are not part of the gun culture still view a openly carried firearm just as they saw it in western movies, remember how many westerns you saw where the sheriff required people to surrender their guns while they were in town? How the town folks who saw a guy with a gun in one of two ways, either a law man or a criminal? Perception is reality in our society.

I know, given the time, either of us can find countless examples we believe demonstrates our point of view of how to carry. That fact remains, and just because we
 
As I stated before, have at the OC in the country. Knock yourself out.

Many of the folks in the smaller towns have the correct view of weapons and are extremely comfortable with guns. You shouldnt have problems.

However, for those of us that found work in the metropolian areas, most of the folks in cities are terrified when someone walks in with a gun that isnt an LEO. They have been taught to do so.

Your posts on a gun board wont change that fact.
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I don’t just post on gun boards. I carry openly EVERY DAY. In the country, in the forests, in the parks, in the city; my rights are the same wherever I happen to be. I do so in Tacoma, Bellevue, Seattle, and on the steps of the Capitol Building in Olympia. Seattle is easily the most liberal city in the whole Pacific Northwest, and Tacoma was ranked the most dangerous. Say what you want, my experience holds a lot more value in my decision than yours (and others) speculation and wild fantasies.
 
However, for those of us that found work in the metropolian areas, most of the folks in cities are terrified when someone walks in with a gun that isnt an LEO.
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My experiences carrying openly in a city of ~120,000 people for the past four years speaks differently.
 
Carry in a way that is legal in your state. The main point is, though, that you exercise your right to carry. Stay within the law, accomodate law enforcement officers when they question you, and keep it civil.

If arrested, or if law enforcement officers attempt to intimidate you, then after it's all over you can file suit against them.

The main thing is that you must exercise your right to carry firearms.
 
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I was driving home and thought... some people bring a bigger size gun to their CCW exam, but when they carry, they will carry a smaller gun.

So generally we get better accuracy from a larger handgun, wouldn't that make open carry safer than conceal carry?
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You know, I don't think open carry will get very many folks to carry larger guns. So many folks carry small because they don't like the heft of larger guns. Many carry smaller because of clothing issues, like summer carry, but you aren't going to get many guys to open carry big guns with that summer short pants.
 
You know, I don't think open carry will get very many folks to carry larger guns. So many folks carry small because they don't like the heft of larger guns.
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A lot of people sacrifice size for concealability. The actual weight difference between a .380 pocket pistol and, say, a full size 5" 1911 is only a pound and a half, negligible with a sturdy belt and quality holster.
 
the foot said:
Carry in a way that is legal in your state. The main point is, though, that you exercise your right to carry. Stay within the law, accomodate law enforcement officers when they question you, and keep it civil.

If arrested, or if law enforcement officers attempt to intimidate you, then after it's all over you can file suit against them.

The main thing is that you must exercise your right to carry firearms.
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Why do you consider exercising your 2nd amendment rights to be more important than exercising your 4th and 5th amendment rights? For instance, if a police officer in Washington wants me to produce ID and check me out to make sure I am legal to carry a gun only because I am carrying a gun, do you suggest I give up my 4th amendment rights to accommodate him?

A similar example would be if I was eating lunch with my step-daughter in McDonald's and a police officer wanted to ID me and verify the step-daughter was mine and that I wasn't kidnapping. Would that be OK too? There is no difference. Carrying a gun in McDonald's is every bit as legal as eating lunch with my step-daughter.

Aren't all of our rights protected by the 1st, 4th, 5th and 2nd amendments equally important?
 
One thing is clear on this topic.

We will have to agree to disagree.

I spend a great deal of time with clients in the Seattle area and I have never seen anyone OC there. I have to admit, I am not looking for it though.

As I stated, maybe rudely, .......Go for OC, or in your case, keep doing it.

For me I am very happy to have CC, and personally the constant issues I'd have with anti's (mainly clients) its not worth it. (I have to work with "suits and ties" folks)

I see many CC VS. OC arguments, I have my views you have yours.

While we are expending energy on these topics the MUCH BIGGER concerns are gun law trends, current media bias, highly liberal indoctrinated school systems, lack of shooters training their children on guns, (about half of children are now being raised by single parent homes by their mother, who PROBABLY dont make going to a range or hunting a priority, AND may be sharing the media bias and lies with their kids) and our trending liberal / socialist government. (Both Dems and reps.)


I hear from folks all the time that say that "We will ALWAYS have guns in the USA"

Look at history to see what happens to personal firearm ownership as countries turn socialistic.

There are STILL folks in England that are saying "What happened????"


Vote!
Take your kids to shoot / hunt !
Be responsible / Be safe !
Ask your kids what your teachers are saying about guns/hunting!
Join the NRA !


If we dont, the future arguement will be something like this:

Old man1
"Remember when we had guns?.......... I thought OC was better"

Old man2
"You're CRAZY, ............CC was always better"


The ANTI's are well-funded and growing......... we all have to get involved.
 
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oldfool said:
nope
CC is a prudent precaution
OC is a statement
guns are not unsafe, people are unsafe
carry yours however it pleases you, and be safe
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OC is no less of a prudent precaution than CC is. What is really sad, though, is how the idea or thought of a person carrying a gun to protect themselves and their families with upsets so many "pro-gun" and/or "pro-2A" people. It is also sad to see "pro-gun" and/or "pro-2A" people make sweeping, stereotyping, and negative comments regarding an entire segment of the gun carrying community. We should leave such actions to the Brady Campaign and other anti-gun groups and not be participants in their tactics ourselves.
 
NavyLT said:
OC is no less of a prudent precaution than CC is. What is really sad, though, is how the idea or thought of a person carrying a gun to protect themselves and their families with upsets so many "pro-gun" and/or "pro-2A" people. It is also sad to see "pro-gun" and/or "pro-2A" people make sweeping, stereotyping, and negative comments regarding an entire segment of the gun carrying community. We should leave such actions to the Brady Campaign and other anti-gun groups and not be participants in their tactics ourselves.
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if you saw that as "negative", blame yourself, not me, friend
your interpretation, not my intent
I wear a shirt w/ a Browning or S&W or Colt logo on it, or fly an American flag on my own front porch, or carry my gun in an OC hip holster, it's a "statement".. mine

anybody thinks an American flag on your own front porch or wearing your own gun on your own hip is somehow wrong to do that, is better served being offended by someone who says you should not do that
(I never said that)

hint, the SUBJECT was "safer"
(any time you really want to know what I think, just ask, but be prepared to be a little bit less offended)

be well, shoot well, stay safe
(and carry your gun legally any way you want.. we do)
 
sorry about that, but...
these OC VERSUS CC threads get way out of hand way too fast
it's not a versus thing, get over it
we really do have enough enemies, and they really are out to get us
they do not need our help

I don't hardly ever wear my own gun OC, but never once been offended by anybody who did
and "been places, done things", that make a white horse in a black herd look pretty tame by comparison, and probably offended some folks, but I lived thru it and got over it, and I guess they did, too

maybe Pogo was right, but it doesn't have to be that way, not unless we make it be so
it doesn't have to be my way vs. your way, it can be our way
(but I am gonna' shut up about that now, promise)
 
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if you saw that as "negative", blame yourself, not me, friend
your interpretation, not my intent
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I saw it the same way. Why is OC a "statement"? Why can't it just be "because it's more comfortable" or "just because I feel like it".

Sorry, you can't say it's not a CC vs OC thing then put spin on how someone open carries only to make a statement.

But you are right, enough of the "versus" stuff.

We should all be free to carry however we wish. If someone doesn't want to open carry that's fine but there should be none of this infighting among pro gun owners and no second guessing a persons reasons for choosing one over the other.

Some of the statements made by some folks in this thread are exactly what the anti's would say, and I find that very disappointing.
 
"how someone open carries only to make a statement."

breaking my promise here, but only once, no matter what gets said next
there was no red ONLY in what I said
but that's what people see, because of the vs. thing
my fault

guns are not unsafe, people are unsafe
that I stand on, OP
Don't you think Open Carry is safer than CC? ("nope")

respectfully
 
The original question was not about "statements" and such. The question was whether open carry is safer than concealed carry. I suggest that it's highly situation dependent.

If you are walking alone to your car in an open parking lot, you may be a potential "target" for a robbery, mugging, car jacking, or worse. Highly unlikely, I think, but the possibility of your being attacked does exist, and you do not want it to happen.

Now, whom would you think to be the more likely target, a person known to be armed (read: a person carrying openly) or a person who may or may not be armed? I happen to think that the person with a gun carried openly would not make the easiest target for a mugging and that the perp would likely choose someone else for a target.

So, in a scenario such as this one, it would seem rather clear, at least to me, that open carry is "safer" than CC.

Take a situation in which more than one perp have among their highest priority objectives the immediate acquisition of a firearm, and the open carrier goes onto the list of potential targets, and other s probably drop off. Assuming that he is paying attention to his surroundings, he is probably pretty safe in that open lot (unless the perps are willing to shoot him for his gun--highly unlikely, I think). However, if he gets into a situation in which he can be jumped without warning and overpowered, he is probably less safe than someone who is not known to be carrying a gun.

Situational awareness? Probably wouldn't help in a crowd, but--stay out of crowds and away from cover such as bushes and other cars, and the risk is highly mitigated.

Go where the dangers include predatory mammals of some size, and the balance generally shifts back. Most of us simply cannot conceal a good sized Ruger or N-frame revolver effectively. Who is safer then?

No one answer.....
 
Or more likely, you simply would not continue your robbery at all and go find another place with no visibly armed customers.

The argument that bad guys look for guns to shoot first assumes that bad guys WANT to be in a gun battle and I don't believe that is true for the majority of criminals out there.
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spot on rifleman. i don't believe there are any stats on this and is not provable

saying OC is less or more dangerous because the BG sees you weapon is from the same pile of Internet dung as "racking your shotgun will scare the bad guy"

really?

cites please


I CC and OC the same weapons, a G30 or a full size 1911.
 
OC is no less of a prudent precaution than CC is. What is really sad, though, is how the idea or thought of a person carrying a gun to protect themselves and their families with upsets so many "pro-gun" and/or "pro-2A" people. It is also sad to see "pro-gun" and/or "pro-2A" people make sweeping, stereotyping, and negative comments regarding an entire segment of the gun carrying community. We should leave such actions to the Brady Campaign and other anti-gun groups and not be participants in their tactics ourselves.
Click to expand...

If we all believe in freedom,who cares? up to the individual

no right or wrong here at all.

FREEDOM
 
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