February 2004 Virtual Match for Fellow THR Members

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photo_guy

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Shoot-Till-75


OK, last moths match was a tough one. Perhaps a bit “too real†for some of the participants who would have liked to continue ignoring those “flyers†so their ego doesn’t get hurt. I can understand that.

This month we have a game that will require you to determine the best strategy based on your shooting ability. In this match the name of the game is to score EXACTLY 75 points, through any combination of shots, using a target with different point values assigned. The “score†will be the number of shots required to complete the accumulation of 75 points.

Because of the inputs I have received, we will have both rifle and pistol classes this month, but each at different ranges. This should allow most people to participate in one or both classes. The ranges specified are shorter to make things a bit easier after last month.

Target : Download the February Target

Distance: 10 yards (Pistol) or 25 yards (Rifle)

Rounds per Target :As needed. The reported score is the number of rounds needed to score EXACTLY 75 points.

Targets per Entry : 1 target per class entry. Each shooter may enter in TWO total classes; one rifle, one pistol or two rifle or two pistol. A single class entry is also acceptable for those with only one firearm.


Procedure and scoring:
The object of this match is to get to 75 total points with the fewest number of shots fired.

Targets are to be placed at 10 yards from the shooter for handgun class (or 25 yards for rifle class). Firearms may be held using standard holds but may not be supported, sling is OK for rifles.

The target consists of several circles or varying sizes and point values of +10, +20, +30, and +50 points.

The background area around the circles is considered a ‘miss’ area and counts as minus 5 points.

The shooter may determine the combination of point values that will result in 75 points.


The points are earned based on the values on the target.

A shot that breaks the line on a circular target counts as a hit and the value of that circle is earned.

Any shot that hits in the ‘miss’ area will deduct 5 points from the total score.

The shooter is to track the number of points earned after each shot and can not stop until the total of all points and misses results in a score of exactly 75 points. Since everyone will complete the match with a 75 the “score†to report will be the number of rounds fired to achieve 75 points.

Note that all the point values for “target†features are multiples of 10. Therefore, in order to get a score of 75 at least one “miss†is required.(Actually, and odd number of misses is needed.) You must actually shoot a 'miss(es)' as needed to get the required point total and they must be on the target. You can not 'assume you will miss. If you hit a positive scoring target when you are trying to miss the points still count! Also, if you completely miss the target that round still counts in your score.


EXAMPLE 1 : A target with +50, +20, +10, MISS(-5) = 75 points in 4 shots

EXAMPLE 2 : A target with +10,+10,+10,+10,+10, MISS(-5), MISS(-5), +20, +20, MISS(-5) = 75 points in 10 shots.


Classes:

Handgun – Any caliber handgun, no optics @ 10 yards

Handgun w/optics – Any caliber handgun with optics @ 10 yards

Rifle – Any caliber rifle, no optics @ 25 yards

Rifle w/optics – Any Caliber rifle, with optics @ 25 yards

Entries: Shooter may enter up to TWO entries this month but each must be from different classes.

ENTRY CUT-OFF DATE = 2/29/2004


Please post your scores here on this thread with the following information:

THR Member Name –
Total number of shots to 75 = _______shots
50ptsx____
40ptsX____
20ptsx____
10ptsX____
MISS(-5)x____
Class --
Weapon --
Caliber –


The Basic Rules:
-Treat all guns as if they were always loaded
-Never let the muzzle cover anything that you are not willing to destroy
-Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target
-Be sure of your target and what’s behind it
-SAFELY follow the course of fire described for each month’s match
-Only shoot where it is safe and legal to do so
-Ammo – Feel free to use any ammunition you like, as long as it is safe. The bottom line is to SHOOT SAFELY.
-Print only one 'official' target per class that you plan to enter.
-Practice shots for 'warm-up' are allowed prior to shooting the match target but the 'official' targets should not be used.

HONOR CODE: Remember: “Character means Doing the Right Thing Even When Nobody's Looking.†Print out only ONE target per shooter per class per month. Shoot your course of fire and report your score.
 
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Just a thought....but on the miss that is required....maybe change it to where a miss must hit the paper? Otherwise a shot can be fired in the dirt and we would never know. Kind of makes it more interesting? Again just a thought, and im lookin forward to this match.

BTW the download was not workin for me of the target.

Brett
 
ProCharger,
Yup, good catch. I intended the "miss" to be on the target. I'll fix that.

The target is a pdf file. I am able to download it an I hope everyone will be able to get it. I can try putting on another server and see if that works. If all else fails I can email it to people on request.
 
Am I retarded or does this only equal 65?

EXAMPLE 2 : A target with +10,+10,+10,+10, MISS(-5), MISS(-5), +20, +20, MISS(-5) = 75 points in 9 shots.

esheato..
 
I swear I counted that thing 15 times to make sure I wasn't missing something...Whew, at least I'm not retarded.

Shoot well and prosper.

esheato...
 
Oh, cool. I think I can do better this month (at least, I can't do worse, since I got all "zeroes" last month :eek: ). Looking at the target, I think I will try using my Swedish Mauser M38 and maybe see if BamBam-31 will lend me his scoped Ruger 10/22. I'm afraid all my other rifles might shoot too high at 25 yards. Anyways, this one looks really fun and I can't wait to get to the range, which I guess is the main point with these matches ;) . Thanks :D !
 
Firearms may be held using standard holds but may not be supported, sling is OK for rifles.

Is this a fancy way of saying offhand? Prone is supported in my mind, sitting with elbows on knees is supported, rice paddy prone is supported at arms...Or does this mean no benched, bipods, or sandbags?
 
Is this a fancy way of saying offhand?

Yes, offhand.

The range is only 25 yards so you shouldn't need much. Also, most people can't do prone or seated positions this time of year so it wouldn't be fair to allow those now.
 
I respectfully request that a shooter be allowed to enter all four classes. If you have the handguns and the rifles, why not shoot all four? As was practice last year, only your hightest score will be counted for the grand finale so if you shoot four classes, it is just more fun for you. If you win all four classes honestly, then you deserve the accolades.

What do you all think? I think this is going to be a real fun match and I want to shoot all four. I really like this one Photo Guy. You made up for that monstrousity last month.

***1 minute later hindsight!***
I don't have a scoped pistol so I only need to shoot in three matches, but my request still stands. If you have all four, why not be able to shoot all four? This is for fun right?

***hindsight number 2***
I forgot about my CCW Garand. But wait, that doesn't have a scope either. What about my CCW Remington Model 700 VS in .308 w/ Leupold 6.5-20x50 LRT? :D
 
Photo_guy -- Looks like a fun one this month!

Although your shoots are kind of like Algebra -- or the mathematical story problems we all love to hate (Train A leaves Chicago at 60 mph, at the same time Train B leaves Cincinatti...):D

Thanks for taking over -- I think I was running out of good ideas and I really like your creativity. Thanks also for the extra time for January -- I think I might make it out for both this week. We just got a foot or so of snow, so I'll try to remember to get a photo of the range.
 
I'm with El Rojo, I'd like to enter in three classes. Was thinking about that last night.

Waitaminute...If I took the scope off the Ranch rifle, them Ruger rings would bolt right on to the Redhawk. Maybe I could enter all four classes.

Hmmm, what say ye?:D
 
Posted by ROTR
......Although your shoots are kind of like Algebra -- or the mathematical story problems we all love to hate.....

Man you got that right. It'll take me 'til the 29th to figure this one out :D

Just joking ... It looks like it'll be fun (like all of them so far)

BTW El Rojo has a good idea about entering all 4 classes.
(El Rojo ... Could you post a pic of the rig you use for your CCW Garand?) :eek:
 
I just printed the target. Looks like it will be a lot of fun. I think lots of folks will get it done in three.
 
The 4 class question

El Rojo said
I respectfully request that a shooter be allowed to enter all four classes. If you have the handguns and the rifles, why not shoot all four? As was practice last year, only your hightest score will be counted for the grand finale so if you shoot four classes, it is just more fun for you. If you win all four classes honestly, then you deserve the accolades.


Let me explain my thought process regarding limiting the number of classes for the matches and see if you still feel the same about your request to allow all four classes per shooter.

The 'traditional rules' have used the highest score from each shooter for each month to calculate the overall yearly 'winner'. That means, the more entries per month the better your chances to get a higher score. While there is nothing wrong with this if everyone had the ability to do so, it doesn't seem fair to a particapant who only has one gun that meets the requirements for a match (or, G-d forbid, only owns one gun:D ).

It is for this 'fairness to the firearms challenged' that I thought the limited number of entries was appropriate.

My philosophy regarding these matches includes:
Make the matches fun.
Make the matches challenging, but not impossible.
Make the matches fair for all.
Encourage particapation (through application of the above)
Follow the lead that ROTR has established for these matches


Now, with that said, we can consider some options. How would people feel about allowing all classes to be entered if we change the annual score calculation to use the LOWEST score for each month?

Also, I am currently running these matches as a temporary "guest co-ordinator". I still recognize ROTR as the owner of these matches. Just because I set specific match rules for 'my term of office' does not mean that the next match co-ordinator can't make different rules.

[El Rojo - you are going to run the March and April matches? Right?]

I am certainly open to additional discussion on this matter.
 
You, Sir, are completely insane.






I can't wait to try this one. :D

Your originality in coming up with these matches is great. :)

One question though- shouldn't the distances for the guns with optics be a little greater than for those without optics?

-James
 
jamz said
You, Sir, are completely insane.

Gee. I really hope that comment was related to the match and not my last post. I think...well, maybe it really doesn't matter.


...shouldn't the distances for the guns with optics be a little greater than for those without optics?

I had considered having different distances for scoped classes but I decided the directions were complacated enough as it was. Since all targets with optics will be grouped together it will be a level playing field for that class. [Plus, I got the distinct sense that people really wanted something a little less demanding after last months match. Don't know why, just a feeling. ;) ]
 
Well Photo Guy this is your match and you do set the rules.

My counter argument is that if I were entering 2 or 3 different guns from the same class, then it would be as you said, not quite fair. However, in this case, there are 4 classes, two that deal with rifles and two that deal with handguns. Just because I can shoot a rifle with a scope, doesn't mean I can shoot a rifle with iron sights and most certainly doesn't mean I can shoot a handgun, scoped or not. If you were allowing multiple entries in one class, I think it would be unfair. If you are entering in multiple classes, then you still have to compete against 4 different sets of people with varrying levels of skill.

I am completely against the lowest score rule. That is why my scores sucked so bad last year. I wanted to shoot a couple of different guns and classes because it was fun and I had a chance to shoot my guns that otherwise go unshot. However, I was penalized for that and it decreased my incentive to shoot those usually unused guns, which is sort of counter to the point of this match. And as you can tell by my scores, allowing me to shoot in multiple classes didn't really mean I had 4 great scores, it meant I sucked at one discipline and did ok in another.

I say let people shoot in the spirit of fun and shooting as many guns as you can. For those of you without guns in all four classes, go buy some more guns. And that statement applies to me; I don't have a scoped handgun other than my CCW Remington Model 700 VS in .308 w/ Leupold 6.5-20x50 LRT. I would like to meet the THR member that would advocate moderation when it comes to the number of firearms purchased and owned (if you have the financial means).

However, all of this is a moot point should Photo Guy decide it is his match and his rules. I will submit to your decision. Just please don't bring back the lowest score counts for the year rule. Please oh please oh please do anything but that. :(
 
I have never competed in a Virtual Match before, I will try to shoot this tomrrow and then post my results.

Thanks for the great ideas.

Regards,
Cameron
 
While I see PhotoGuys point clearly, I do agree with El Rojo. This is not a national championship. No fees, no prizes, so maximum participation encouraged. The average participation in last years matches was 11.6 persons per match IIRC. We don't need fair par se, we need maximum participation, encouragement to shoot more, encouragement to aquire more firearms. This is what it's all about, no?

If prizes or entry fees were involved I could see stricter rules. But there isn't so why limit participation for the benefit of the one(s) who have only one gun etc.? It's just for fun.

I'm not complaining and I'm not telling anyone how they should set up their matches. These are just my thoughts and suggestions. I'll adhere to whatever you guys come up with. I realize it's just for fun and just think we should exploit the fun factor while allowing us to pursue personal best for the year. If it does or doesn't beat others for the year, so be it.
 
Thanks for the input El Rojo and Edward.


To quote one of my favorite movies "Mr. Gambini, that is a lucid, well thought-out, intelligent objection."

I do agree that:
We don't need fair par se, we need maximum participation, encouragement to shoot more, encouragement to aquire more firearms. This is what it's all about, no?


So, in that spirit, I propose the following:
Shooters may enter more than the the maximum two classes per shooter if, and only if, they do not use their own firearms for the extra classes.

"Huh? What is that?" You say.

To encourage additional participation I want the current participants to get out and bring a buddy with them to the range. I also want people to try new guns (at least new-to-them). So, if you need to use a firearm that is not yours for those additional entries we might get more shooters out there sharing their firearms at the range and having a general good time.

I will allow firearms borrowed from friends (especially if they are with you, and you share with them). I will also allow rented firearms if you have a range that provides that service. And, I will also allow firearms that you have purchased within the last month (there is your excuse to buy that one you've been putting off).



What was that quote from Jamz.....
-----------------------------------------
You, Sir, are completely insane.
-----------------------------------------
 
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