Gun shop and range idiocy

[Craig_AR]

i never fired a shot in anger in 25 years of mostly, not all, reserve service. but the most apprehensive i ever felt was at a rifle range when a transportation corps truck company was qualifying.

In the early 1980's I worked with USAF Security Police in Europe on their detailed "Defense of NATO" under War Plan 4102M. Because the Army could not provide perimeter defense of air bases behind the Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA), the AF cops had to plan on that. This included "mass-arming," that is, giving every GI on the base a gun and assigning defensive duties inside or outside the fence. USA and USMC vets will recall that only a minimal number of USAF types receive any meaningful firearms training after initial (Basic Training) range qualification. All of the cops at the planning meeting agreed their biggest concern was issuing arms to the Munitions Squadron members, the heavily-muscled bomb loaders; that prospect scared them a bunch.

 

[PWC]

In the mid 60's when the Army did have responsibility for USAF base security, Travis AFB had several NIKE and NIKE AJAX ground-to-air missle sites scattered around the countryside. While stationed at Langley AFB in VA In the early 70's, with the Army's withdrawal of base security, the SP commander asked the Combat Control for Team for training help with small unit tactics and field craft. At that time, most SP's, treated it as a day in the woods. It wasn't until they encountered near and far ambush training that they realized how easy it was to get kiled. Their attitudes changed after that night.

Now, 40 years later, I know the CCT is better equiped and trained than we were then, and I also believe the SP's too are better trained and equipped.

 

[Craig_AR]

In the mid 60's when the Army did have responsibility for USAF base security, Travis AFB had several NIKE and NIKE AJAX ground-to-air missle sites scattered around the countryside. While stationed at Langley AFB in VA In the early 70's, ...
Now, 40 years later, I know the CCT is better equiped and trained than we were then, and I also believe the SP's too are better trained and equipped.

When you and I were in, the cop squadron had two specialties (now MOS), Security Police (SP) and Law Enforcement {LE). The SPs had more tactical and defensive training (like for protecting flightiness and nukes), while the LE were trained more like civilian LEOs. I do not know if AF still uses that two-MOS difference.

 

[Coyote3855]

I was line coach for NRA Basic Pistol class. My shooter had a very new high-dollar 1911. When the range officer gave the command to chamber a round, he turned the pistol sideways pointed right at my belly to rack it. I told him in no uncertain terms not to do that again. He was offended, probably because he was much older than me and obviously knew what he was doing. During the course of fire, his 1911 would occasionally fail to go into battery and he would smack the back of the slide with his off hand. I told him that was one way to deal with such a malfunction, but to take his finger off the trigger when he did. About the third or fourth time, he launched 230 grains through the range roof towards downtown. The chief instructor gave him a certificate of completion anyway.

 

[AK103K]

The chief instructor gave him a certificate of completion anyway.

Thats the age we are in. Everyones a winner and gets a cookie.

Dont want to hurt any feelings.

 

[Ignition Override]

Recently a woman shot herself in the leg, accidentally, with a .357. She missed the arteries.
Indoor range. No idea what the name is nor any info about the woman's shooting "background" etc.

It was in the south/southeastern Jackson MS area. At least one of you is probably familiar with it.

My friend saw some of the Blood on the floor afterwards, which this sleazy place was not even cleaning up before allowing more shooting.
He was allowed to go towards his little shooting bay and walk around a pool of blood, which was being ignored by staff.

 

[entropy]

In the mid 60's when the Army did have responsibility for USAF base security, Travis AFB had several NIKE and NIKE AJAX ground-to-air missle sites scattered around the countryside. While stationed at Langley AFB in VA In the early 70's, with the Army's withdrawal of base security, the SP commander asked the Combat Control for Team for training help with small unit tactics and field craft. At that time, most SP's, treated it as a day in the woods. It wasn't until they encountered near and far ambush training that they realized how easy it was to get kiled. Their attitudes changed after that night.

Now, 40 years later, I know the CCT is better equiped and trained than we were then, and I also believe the SP's too are better trained and equipped.

When I poke fun at the firearms training of AF personnel, these two groups are not included. I've always had the highest respect for CCT's and aircops.

When you and I were in, the cop squadron had two specialties (now MOS), Security Police (SP) and Law Enforcement {LE). The SPs had more tactical and defensive training (like for protecting flightiness and nukes), while the LE were trained more like civilian LEOs. I do not know if AF still uses that two-MOS difference.

Possibly not. Even back when I was at Ft. Ord, when we went up to Travis, I saw FPOs patrolling the on base housing, like we had at Planet Ord.

 

[PWC]

When you and I were in, the cop squadron had two specialties (now MOS), Security Police (SP) and Law Enforcement {LE). I do not know if AF still uses that two-MOS difference.

I've been gone a long time, but I believe MOS was the Army designation for a "career". I think a MOS of 01Bravo was for infantry. USAF had AF Specialty Code (AFSC), same purpose as Army MOS. I don't know the different AFSCs for SP. Then, CCT had 2 AFSC's; 272-Air Traffic Control and 304- Ground Radio Maintenance. CCT has since been recognised for what they are, with their own AFSC/MOS, a specialized SOF that works with the other special units; Delta, Special Forces, Seal #6, and our allied counter parts.

 

[hemiram]

The idiots I've run into are about 50/50 split between people who work at the places and customers. Last goober I saw was trying to load .357 rounds into his .357 Sig pistol. A friend with me said, "357 Sig and .357 are not the same thing!", and the guy looked like we told him we were aliens. The range guy laughs and goes over and talks to him a minute, and the dope goes and buys 357 Sig ammo, complaining that "I wouldn't have bought it if I had known there was a difference!". I guess he never saw the 357 Sig rounds pictured so often with the guns in ads, etc? Those kind of things are pretty funny, but some of the employee weirdness made me more angry than anything else. Range "fuhrers" who make up ridiculous rules that take any fun out of shooting there. One guy constantly yelled at me for shooting too quickly, and kept doing it after I explained to him, again and again, I didn't have time to shoot slowly, all I wanted to do that day was make sure the guns I had bought functioned OK, and I had to be at work soon. I finally had to complain to the owner to get him to leave me alone. By the time I got to that point, I wanted to take his bullhorn and smash it into pieces. It was an indoor range, and he didn't need a bullhorn in the first place. Another wanna be dictator made snarky remarks about the guns a friend and I had brought with us that day. They were all "cheap", but there wasn't a problem with any of them, except the .22LR ammo we had was trash and made shooting the 2 .22 guns we bought a hassle. All the others were fine, unlike some of the "good guns" people were shooting alongside us.