Gun shop and range idiocy

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PWC said:
Looooong time ago, shooting 22's for rats at the dump, there was an old console TV. We shot at the picture tube, but it didn't break, but we heard ricochets, some seemed to come back at us. We checked and found out the early picture tubes had a metal "bell" which "focused" our shots back at us. We were young once, and stupid. Proof God watches over idiots.
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Same thing happened to me and a friend. We were in a deep wash and heard the ricochets impacting on the sides above our heads. Who knew?
 
For the life of me I can only remember one idiot where he asked the guy behind the counter of the LGS for a perfectly safe gun. Of course he said that no gun is perfectly safe.

The idiot was me when I was shopping for my first centerfire gun over 30 years ago. Oh I’ve seen folks make mistakes at the range, but I haven’t seen many that were completely uninformed.
 
I've got a fairly safe gun - it's a cast foam rubber Chief's Special that I fished out of the Long Beach turning basin after the filming of a scene of McMillan and Wife back in the '70s.
Maybe you could hurt someone with it if you lit it on fire or stuck razor blades in it... .
 
I go into a LGS, trying to sell a former Italian police issue Beretta 92, made in Italy. Some wear on it, but a perfectly functional--and accurate--shooter. The local good 'ol boy collective that works there passes it around, and from afar I hear various idiotic comments, considering where these people worked: "What is it?"; "Man, why's it so heavy?" "Looks like somebody shot the hell out of it!" (yeah, guns that aren't plastic show wear, dip) and you get the idea. Finally, store clerk says they aren't interested. because:
"Those are selling for $150 on Gunbroker right now."

Sure they are, pal.

This wasn't the first time I got my intelligence insulted at this place. But it will be the last.
 
WVGunman said:
I go into a LGS, trying to sell a former Italian police issue Beretta 92, made in Italy. Some wear on it, but a perfectly functional--and accurate--shooter. The local good 'ol boy collective that works there passes it around, and from afar I hear various idiotic comments, considering where these people worked: "What is it?"; "Man, why's it so heavy?" "Looks like somebody shot the hell out of it!" (yeah, guns that aren't plastic show wear, dip) and you get the idea. Finally, store clerk says they aren't interested. because:
"Those are selling for $150 on Gunbroker right now."

Sure they are, pal.

This wasn't the first time I got my intelligence insulted at this place. But it will be the last.
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This is one of the reasons I stopped selling any firearms at a Gunshow. Hope you found a better place to take it.
 
Several years ago I was at a local indoor range with a friend. As my buddy was shooting and I was standing behind him, a guy from about three lanes down was shooting a (we'll call it a .38 special) with wad cutters. Problem was he was firing from outside the particions and one of his rounds must have shaved itself during the jump from cylinder to barrel. I felt a sharp pain in my left cheek and after touching it I relized I had blood all over my fingers. I had to let him know to step forward and recommended he has the timing checked on that old revolver.
 
Outlaw75 said:
That was Harold Fish in Arizona and although that was used against him, the real problem with that case was that the judge would not allow the victim's prior history of violent behavior into evidence.

https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/casedetail.aspx?caseid=4266

This is, though, the reason Mas Ayoob advises people to not use reloads in EDC. Fish didn't use reloads, but it wouldn't take much for a prosecutor to try and make out like you were a viscous killer who went out of his way to load extra-heavy duty killer loads. So, even though no one's ever seen marksmanship ability used against an LEO or a civilian it doesn't mean it won't be at some point in the future.
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Sorry, but who is the "victim" here?
 
Three real life stories:

#1. Two friends of mine were out shooting. They had a bolt action .22 rimfire. After a couple of shots they set the gun on the ground pointing down range and went to check the target. You guessed it; the gun went off hitting one of the men in the back. I do not know which was worse - the pain of the bullet or the embarrassment...

#2. Father and son were shooting a .22. After firing and declaring "all clear" they went to check the target. The kid left the rifle pointed down range with the bolt closed.

#3. Four guys came out of the woods on to the road where their car was parked. As they unloaded their guns one of the rifles fired. I think hunter #4 walked home.
 
WVGunman said:
Finally, store clerk says they aren't interested. because:
"Those are selling for $150 on Gunbroker right now."
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With the ubiquitousness of smart phones saying things like that nowadays is incredibly dumb because in two minutes or less that clerk's statement could be challenged and demonstrated to be wrong. I try not to make statements of which I am not more than reasonably aware are true. Too easy to be shown to be either a know nothing or a jerk. Or both.
 
FlSwampRat said:
With the ubiquitousness of smart phones saying things like that nowadays is incredibly dumb because in two minutes or less that clerk's statement could be challenged and demonstrated to be wrong. I try not to make statements of which I am not more than reasonably aware are true. Too easy to be shown to be either a know nothing or a jerk. Or both.
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I thought as much myself at the time. I know that not many customers of this place (and it seems not a majority of gun shoppers around here in general) are very Internet savvy, so I wondered if he was b.s-ing me. I also thought it possible he saw an auction bid and thought it was the actual price. But either way, as you say, dumb. I wasn't going to challenge it though because I was sick of this place's attitude of always doing ME a favor.
 
[QUOTE="GEM, post: 11481287, member: 10500". ..Young males will puff up if you tell their female companion anything. I might if her safety is an issue, being a dad with a daughter. At a match, a new stud shows up with a fancy rig (shoots crappy), he brings his lady friend who had some shiny chrome piece of crap he probably bought her. They are wearing their ball caps backwards. Now shooting a rifle you might. In a pistol match, the brim forward can help avoid a hot empty in your face. I tell the young lady to turn it around. She asks why and I explain. She thanks me and does it. ... [/QUOTE]

Don't know how many times I and others have taught Day 1 (classroom) portion of a course and specifically advised a brimmed cap for all and for the ladies not to wear a shirt or blouse with a low neck on Day 2 (range) session. And yet ... ah, well, I've seen some interesting dance moves. Of course, if you're the instructor or RO, got to make sure to secure the dancer's gun hand and/or firearm if need be.
 
I also wear a cap with a back flap, which looks very stylish, because:

1. It kept the sun of my neck. Carcinoma - you can say.
2. It kept empties from going down my neck. I've seen that happen and strong men dance.

Another range idiocy. Dad takes Gramps to the rifle range. It's outdoors, so we have to call a cease fire to change targets. We do, Gramps keeps shooting. Much outrage ensues. Dad is embarrassed but Gramps insists that since he beat the Kaiser or was on San Juan hill, he knows how to shoot and doesn't need to stop. Well, he stops. We start up - at the next time out, guess who doesn't stop for the same reason. Range officer comes over and yells. Dad wrestles gun from Gramps who resists. Gramps is shoved in the car and off they go.
 
And just today there's the guy who picks a handgun out of my inventory to buy, starts filling out the 4473, gets halfway through the questions and says "Does it matter if I have a medical marijuana card?"
I said yes and we couldn't sell him a gun. Showed him line 11e that he was just about to answer and said that's why, it's what made you ask in the first place.
There was a bit of back and forth but essentially he walked out saying he was going to get me fired, I didn't know who I was messing with, yada yada....
I kept smiling and shook my head when he left.
 
It has been my experience that it's not the complete new people who are the problem. Most of the time, they generally want to know and are asking questions because they are looking for information; they know what they don't know.
Most of the "idiots" are people who have bad tribal knowledge passed down to them or bad habits that they have gotten lucky with thus far that they, or those with them, have not gotten hurt.

Probably the worst is the person who can't admit that they're wrong.

There were two old timers who used to come to a local range as regulars many years ago; they bought their first semi-autos there. Up until that point, they had only shot revolvers. Whenever they went out to shoot, one would always come back with the thumb on his left hand bruised and bleeding (he was right handed).

The first time it happened, one of the employees (who is also an NRA certified instructor and also teaches our state's concealed carry) tried to show them how to grip a semi auto and that they shouldn't cross the thumb of the support hand over as they had for years shooting revolvers.

The first guy basically said "I know what I"m doing boy, I've been shooting for longer than you've been alive!" (Range employee was late 20's at the time.) The second guy listened, adjusted his grip, and enjoyed shooting semi autos with no problem from then on.

Yet, every time they came in to shoot, guy 1 would come out cursing under his breath about how much it hurt and how the Glock made him bleed every time he shot it. But nothing was wrong with his grip, no sir, he had been shooting that way for 50 years!
 
Oh, yeah, there's one at every range! And the guy who, between shots on the trap range thinks he's Deputy Beauregarde P. Strackbutt guarding the chain gang in the hot Georgia sun, buttstock on hip, round in chamber, finger on trigger.
 
Outlaw75 said:
That was Harold Fish in Arizona and although that was used against him, the real problem with that case was that the judge would not allow the victim's prior history of violent behavior into evidence.

https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/casedetail.aspx?caseid=4266

This case is not the primary reason Mas Ayoob advises people to not use reloads in EDC. Fish didn't use reloads, but it wouldn't take much for a prosecutor to try and make out like you were a viscous killer who went out of his way to load extra-heavy duty killer loads. So, even though no one's ever seen marksmanship ability used against an LEO or a civilian it doesn't mean it won't be at some point in the future.
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The case that Mas wrote about regarding reloads was a New Jersey case, State v. Daniel Bias, which was a state trial court decision and the NJ Supreme Court refused to intervene after a retrial. The issue in that case came from GSR evidence which is often critical to determine distance in forensics. Effectively, there is a doctrine that Kleanbore describes in the bottom THR thread link that prevents a defendant from using self provided evidence such as their reload amount. The defendant in the case argued that his wife did not like std. loads so he loaded special light wadcutter rounds for her. He argued that she used them to commit suicide. However, the police used the fact that less than normal GSR residue on the deceased indicated the shot was fired from a longer than arm-length distance which meant murder.
Here is a discussion of the specific issues in the Bias case involving the details
https://www.njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/81686-legal-self-defense-ammo/page/4/
Here is Mas Ayoob
https://www.backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/the-problem-with-handloads-for-defense/

Here is a thread on the THR regarding using reloads. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/carrying-handloads-for-self-defense.618021/

And our own THR Spats McGee's excellent post on Glocktalk about reloads from an attorney's perspective on evidence.
https://www.glocktalk.com/a/the-peculiar-problem-of-handloads-in-self-defense-shootings.18/
 
One of my first turns as an RSO at a local range was the worst screw up that didn't result in death or great bodily harm I've seen. I volunteered for Saturday afternoon (mistake) and the range was very busy. I was watching the handgun range when I heard the very distinctive sound of a click instead of a bang. The guy was right in front of me shooting a DA revolver and realized something was wrong, but looked so puzzled I started to step up and offer to assist. Just as I approached he turned the revolver toward his face and looked down the barrel! After I calmed down enough to get him pointed downrange and let go of his gun, we had a nice talk about hangfires and getting your head blown off. Turns out he was using his buddy"s "hot" handloads. There's a lot of scary folks out there, ya know.
 
Uncle Bill said:
One of my first turns as an RSO at a local range was the worst screw up that didn't result in death or great bodily harm I've seen. I volunteered for Saturday afternoon (mistake) and the range was very busy. I was watching the handgun range when I heard the very distinctive sound of a click instead of a bang. The guy was right in front of me shooting a DA revolver and realized something was wrong, but looked so puzzled I started to step up and offer to assist. Just as I approached he turned the revolver toward his face and looked down the barrel! After I calmed down enough to get him pointed downrange and let go of his gun, we had a nice talk about hangfires and getting your head blown off. Turns out he was using his buddy"s "hot" handloads. There's a lot of scary folks out there, ya know.
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A friend of mine is an instructor and had just finished her 3 hour classroom portion of the process and was taking the small group down to the range to "show proficiency". One student got a click and attempted to peer down the barrel til my friend slammed her hand down on the port shelf. Turns out the student had only put in 6 shots (in my 922) "because it's a 6 shooter" and had dropped the hammer on an empty chamber.

She was quite surprised when my friend failed her and refused to give her a certificate. I happen to know 1/3 of my friend's class is how to carry, 1/3 is legal and 1/3 is safety, give or take. She was so pissed that when all the shooters were done she called me to vent while packing up the multimedia equipment back in the classroom.
 
entropy said:
:rofl: So true. I was the Armorer and range NCO for a REMF unit. I waited for one of them to recreate the scene in Stripes at BRM, but it never got that nuts. I did have to DQ a friend for cocking his S&W revolver and setting a round off before I called Commence Fire.
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i never fired a shot in anger in 25 years of mostly, not all, reserve service. but the most apprehensive i ever felt was at a rifle range when a transportation corps truck company was qualifying.
 
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