Loose lipped family members

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kd7nqb

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I am almost 21, (3 days away) and will be submitting my paperwork for both my Oregon and Utah CCW's. I plan to carry at least on a regular basis.

My immediate family knows this, we are conisdered a pro-gun family so thats all good. However much of my extended family and some family friends are rather anti. This week I had to fly back to Connecticut for a funeral and my grandmother approached me and said "Your brother mentioned at dinner last night that your going to be getting your gun permit, this concerns me why do you think you need this, do you plan on killing someone" I spoke with her breifly using mostly general arguments without causing much of a fuss because it was not the time or place.

The larger problem is that when I talked to my brother about how guns are a personal thing and I will tell the people I think need to know which is a very small group. (a view that has come from education from THR I use to be much looser on such) He seemed to entirely blow me off and say "if your legal why would you care"

How do you explain the importance of concealed means concealed to a family member.
 
this concerns me why do you think you need this, do you plan on killing someone

Not surprising, but wow. Does she understand that getting something traceable and requiring a background check is probably a bad idea if you were going to kill someone?

My mom originally didn't approve of me getting my CCW, but nothing she could do. I visit weekly, and over the past couple years, I've just brought up instances of self-defense, explained the laws, and pretty much stood by the position that "I passed background checks, I carry a gun legally in case I need it, and it's not hurting anyone". She's beginning to come around, it's just something that people unfamiliar with CCW will accept from family over time.
 
I dunno. I mean, concealed means concealed and it's a personal choice. I have a younger brother who knows I own firearms and carry. Outside of asking to see what my CHL looked like, he really hasn't broached it. No "Let's go shooting" or "Let me see your gun", and not even a "What are you shooting?".
 
First, welcome to your family coping with your adulthood. Since you are obviously thinking things through, and not just accepting the party line (whichever it is), you are eventually going to end up at odds with even the pro-gun portion of your family over something. I was just arguing with my mother last night about taxes and welfare... and I thought for the last 33 years that she was on my side.

In your brother's case, I would probably ask him if one of your female cousins got an abortion, would she want to spread that all over the family? Probably not, even though she's legal and shouldn't care.

They are both very touchy subjects, and nobody's going to persuade anyone to change minds with statements like "I have a CWP so F U" or "I got an abortion so F U". There's such a thing as diplomacy, and it sounds like you're just trying to use it.

Of course, the best thing you can do is come up with answers you can give even your grandmother when she asks questions like why do you need a gun.
 
What's the problem with people you know - family or not - knowing you have a weapons permit? Worried they're gonna mug ya??? :D

Seriously the more people that you know that know you carry the more people that are aware that carry is out there and can become comfortable with it. Some of those will invariably at some point get into a discussion with someone about carry and will point out that they know someone who does and it's really not an issue.

Carry the torch! Don't bury it.

NOTE: The only downside is that one of those in the know might say something stupid to someone when you're around "like better be careful, mess with me and my bro over there will shoot ya". This can happen - believe me I know.
 
2 different issues at work here.

1. Anti family members.
2. Concealed means concealed.

For #1: (shrug) "It's not really a big deal."

Don't argue, this tends to wind them up. Just emphasize how completely ordinary and mundane carrying a firearm is.

For #2: (Find his credit card number or SSN and memorize it.) "Your credit card number/SSN ends with 4235. I could repeat the rest to you, your friends, and complete strangers - but I don't because I value your privacy and because you're family. Both a firearm and a credit card are a source of money for unscrupulous people, and because we're family we don't tell others about either one of them."
 
I'd point out that they wouldn't appreciate you talking about their personal and private lives, regardless of how "legal" some of their behavior was, any more than you appreciate them talking about your private and personal life.
 
The larger problem is that when I talked to my brother about how guns are a personal thing and I will tell the people I think need to know which is a very small group. (a view that has come from education from THR I use to be much looser on such) He seemed to entirely blow me off and say "if your legal why would you care"

How do you explain the importance of concealed means concealed to a family member.

The bigger problem:
It doesn't matter one way or the other about his opinion on concealed carry.

He has demonstrated that he's perfectly willing to share your secrets with others against your expressed wishes. Since his nature is to shrug you off and spread the word when he deems your request for discretion unimportant, I wouldn't be opening up in any meaningful way around him in the future.
 
How do you explain the importance of concealed means concealed to a family member.

You don't. It's none of their business and there's no reason to get into a firearms debate. Just nod your head, be polite to granny, and don't worry about it.
 
lol. KS only started issues CCH permits this year! As a supporter of all gun rights and a believer that the only people who should break the law with guns should be criminals, I got my CCH.

My views caused some controversy amongst a few friends and family who thought I was a 'gun nut' and I guess I am. I told folks I'm into guns because they're just such great marvels of engineering. 'some fellas have hot rods...and if I had six figures laying around I'd have a visit with barrett-jackson....but with a $500 budget and gas prices at $3.00/gallon, I think I can get more *bang* for my buck by doing this. It's like having a boat, or a jet ski or an RV, it's a hobby."

"then why are you carrying it with you everywhere?"
"I'm not too afraid of being shot or defending myself, I'm really more exercising my rights and I don't get near as scared driving through the bad parts of town now."

Since I got it, I really don't carry all that much actually. It's kind of a hassle, and I really don't care too much about defending myself with a gun. I don't have any direct enemies. I don't have any money, so if someone mugs me they'll get my maxed out visa and my bus pass. My girlfriend isn't small or pretty enough for anyone to want to take her hostage, and if they did I probably wouldn't care all that much. Someone could kidnap my dog, again...no money so no ransom. I suppose someone could just randomly start shooting at me when I'm driving around, but some .38 caliber holes might give my 1986 Nissan pickup a little much-needed character after 200,000 miles.

I can't win an argument against my neighbors about their kid putting holes in the skirting around my home. I can't afford name brand beer off my paycheck, let alone a lawyer. I'm not the sharpest or most motivated guy in the world, I'm probably better off just taking my guns to the range.

Nobody enjoys argueing with Eor from Winnie the Pooh...it's like cutting line in front of a guy in a wheelchair.
 
Originally posted by kd7nqb...
I spoke with her breifly using mostly general arguments without causing much of a fuss because it was not the time or place.

That sounds like you handled that situation very well. Shows the sort of patience, insight and maturity that one should have when carrying a loaded gun.


Originally posted by kellyj00
...I really don't care too much about defending myself with a gun

...My girlfriend isn't small or pretty enough for anyone to want to take her hostage, and if they did I probably wouldn't care all that much.

...I'm not the sharpest or most motivated guy in the world

Wow.

That's pretty harsh.
 
I would try talking to him again and try to make it very clear that it is something personal and not something you want everyone to know about. He probably doesn't understand that it's personal information too you and figures it's no big deal. I doubt he's trying to tell people your secrets but rather didn't realize it was a secret at all. I have a similar situation because i'm taking my carry permit training class next week and turning 21 about a week later. My grandmother is a hardcore liberal and doesn't even believe that i should own a handgun, let alone carry one, and my mom mentioned to her that i was getting my permit. she didn't like that much but there isn't much she can do about that.
 
Sometimes it's just better for people not to know. You wouldn't want your family telling all their friends that you always carry $600 in your wallet, or something like that either. The only time anyone should know (outside the people that see you dress or immediate family of course) is when it has to be employed. Concealed carry benefits everybody only if people don't know who's carrying and who's not. If someone were to target you and knew you were armed they'd bring more help and weapons to stack the odds against you. No sense in arming a person intent on harming you with that type of information in advance.
Plus you don't want to be in a situation where a loudmouth friend who doesn't know anything about use of force laws starts in with the "Oh yeah well my friend here has a gun and..." garbage.
 
Family aint family if they aren't gossiping behind your back trying to make your life "Better". I am in my mid twenties, single, and from an Italian family... at any given moment my grandmother is meeting with the other old laddies and trying to set me up with any granddaughter from 12 years old to 45.:uhoh:

The best thing to do when confronted with family members who know what's "best" for you is to be polite, patronizing, and change the subject without starting an argument. Don't bother trying to convert them, most older relatives are only interested in fixing your life, not being corrected by you. You can argue with them until you are blue in the face, only to go through it all again next time.

Talk to you brother and your parents, you can probably make them understand that you would rather not have the whole world (and family reunion) know about your CWP. Other than that, just smile and nod to grandma, make her happy, then go live your own life.
 
There are people out there who can't handle the truth. Trying to explain CCW to them will upset, confuse, or alarm them. They simply don't have the context or firearms education/experience to understand CCW.
 
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Interesting post j kelly.

That's cool that you care to exercise your rights once in awhile, but don't feel like you're in a high risk category, I can understand.

I used to feel that way too, until I started looking around and seeing what was going on around me, in the community, in the world, etc.

For me, I'm more ineterested in carrying now than I was even a few months ago, when I finally bought my first HG. My original plan was to keep something at the house, and maybe in the car.

A few months later, I'm practicing IDPA (defensive pistol shooting), obtained my CWP, and am interested in carrying a lot more

What changed you might ask? Well, I guess the more I thought about it, the more I started thinking why not? I saw a thing on the news about some lake drownings in the area, and how when an emergency happens, boat accident, heart attack, person overboard, or other unextected event, it's too late to put on your life preserver at that point, having it in the boat wasn't good enough, because it wasn't on the person who needed it in the crisis. While some people may be lucky enough to see trouble coming, some may not.

I'm not giving you a hard time or anything, or even trying to convince you of a different way of thinking. I was just compelled by your comments to want to share my own thoughts, FWIW

I started looking at the types of crimes being committed these days, and didn't like what I saw. The lines are continually being blurred now. You don't have to be in a high risk neighborhood or take part in high risk activities to be at risk anymore, criminals don't follow the logic we do, and seemingly the logic of criminals past.

To me, it seems like there is much less regard for human life, and much less fear of the legal system in many groups today. I've seen so many reports of unnecessary violence while in commission of another crime, like when they take whatever the victim has and shoots them anyway, either in a panic, to not leave a witness, to prove something, or whatever. I've seen many reports of robberies & car jackings where the person was assaulted, shot and/or killed even though they didn't resist. I've seen reports of people pan-handling that I used to think were mostly harmless losers are now often strong armed thugs posing as a homeless person to get your guard down, I don't know, I'm just saying that even though you don't think you'd give anyone a reason to harm you, doesn't mean someone won't find their own illogical reason.

Again, no harm intended, just thinking out loud. Hope none of us ever find ourselves in that situation, and kudos on excersing your various rights.

------------

To the OP, I understand where you're coming from, and have struggled w/ some of these concepts in recent months. On one hand, the fact that your brother mentioned your CCW to other family members, and he didn't think it was a big deal, is kind of a good thing. I mean if we all (as a society) thought it was logical and not a big deal to protect ourselves, woudln't that be a great thing. In a way he seems to think this way by your comments, which in a way is cool. The fact that your other relatives that are 'relatively anti' are being faced with logic of a loved one wanting to protect themselves may be a positive impact on them in the long run, they may become less negative about the idea if someone they know and love has taken this road responsibly.

However, I totally understand your concern, and this is an unfortunate reality of our society. Whether you own one gun, or have an expensive collection, your firearms could be targeted by thieves should they become aware of them. You and those around you may be at risk if for some reason you ever find yourself in a situation where someone knows in advance, or becomes aware, of your ownership/carrying practices of firearms, in the event they are planning a crime or happen to be committing a crime in proximity to you, as it could obviously be to your disadvantage if they know you're armed but you don't know they intend to commit said crime, they could target you, etc.

It's like the double edged sword of open carry. Most people wouldn't mess w/ you, but the hardcore criminal may just see that as an indication of how to accomplish his plan, by eliminating any threats to him first, etc.

I think it's fair and reasonable to explain to your inner circle both of these points in an effort to see how it is a reasonable thing to want to protect yourself, but in so doing, asking them to respect your privacy to not undermine the added advantage you have w/ the CWP by possibly inadvertently tipping off the wrong person through the spread of the 'gossip' to an uncontrollable circle, where this wrong person may want to cause you or those around you harm as a result.

Good luck.

Karz
 
Welcome to the club. Chances are if my family can run someone down, they will. Especially with direct and crude comments about ones personality for wanting to carry. Ignorance spreads ignorance which morphs into stupidity in an endless cycle :banghead:.
 
"Your brother mentioned at dinner last night that your going to be getting your gun permit, this concerns me why do you think you need this, do you plan on killing someone"

I would have said

"No, but I plan on defending myself thank you."
 
my grandmother approached me and said "Your brother mentioned at dinner last night that your going to be getting your gun permit, this concerns me why do you think you need this, do you plan on killing someone"
Is this grandmother one that knows you fairly well or that you've only met a few times? If the former, I would be highly insulted and tell her so. :(

It is ridiculous for someone to think that your entire personality is going to change because you carry a gun. :rolleyes:
 
I would read up on some of the mass murders committed here in the United States where some nut went postal on people at work in cafe's, shopping malls, (seemingly everywhere but a gun shop). I would point out that we live in dangerious times and that you do not want to be a victim.
Would you rather someone kill me in cold blood with no way to help myself?
 
Your brother mentioned at dinner last night that your going to be getting your gun permit

I had a similar problem with a family member not being discrete about such information. I explained to them that people tend to gossip a bit, not really meaning to do anything harmful. You might trust the person you tell something to, but who knows who they might talk to "in confidence". I don't want a lot of people knowing about my guns or that I carry a gun because guns are very valuable and it could make me a target of a crime. You wouldn't want folks going around talking about your new TV or stereo would you?
 
I would be highly insulted and tell her so.
Definitely do that. Family or not, they've got no right labelling you a murderer on the basis of something like a CCW permit.

As far as the brother issue - like the grandmother, some people flip out when they hear about somebody carrying a gun, even if they've known 'em for years. Best to avoid confrontation with nutty people, lest they call the police on you for some stupid reason or other.
 
If I had a brother, and we had a good relationship, I'd tell him, "If you don't stop blabbing about my permit, I'm going to tell everyone in the family that you like little boys..." :what:

Actually, I'd have it out with the brother, and try to get him to understand by breaking it down in personal terms that would affect him, like the credit card number, $600 in the wallet from the above replies. Don't let up until he stops.

Grandma- well you did well with her. Maybe you'll get a better chance to explain, but as long as you're diplomatic with her, you've done well...

But what do I know...
 
Seriously the more people that you know that know you carry the more people that are aware that carry is out there and can become comfortable with it.

Your position is admirable, but not everyone wants to be an activist.
 
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