M1911 vs Glock: The Gunshop Showdown
- Thread starter CmdrSlander
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@87 "Fail !"
"... Timex more desirable, reliable or useful, merely more plentiful ..."
Timex IS more plentiful AND reliable AND USEFUL, because it's considered more desirable by those who need dependability. But again, there will likely never be a custom-shopped, one-off safe queen based on GLOCK. "PERFECTION" as a goal, not a model. I have Minoxs, Nikons, ALPAs, and Timexs. But I like Rolex as well; widen your horizons, and avoid snobbery. DAO.
"... Timex more desirable, reliable or useful, merely more plentiful ..."
Timex IS more plentiful AND reliable AND USEFUL, because it's considered more desirable by those who need dependability. But again, there will likely never be a custom-shopped, one-off safe queen based on GLOCK. "PERFECTION" as a goal, not a model. I have Minoxs, Nikons, ALPAs, and Timexs. But I like Rolex as well; widen your horizons, and avoid snobbery. DAO.
Deaf Smith
Member
While I am a Glock man, pack'em all the time and have several of them that does NOT mean the Glock is everything for everyone.
I have 1911s, Sigs, Smiths, lots of wheelguns, and I can say just about all of them are quite CCWable. Some find the lack of an external safety troubling with the Glock, others the cocked-n-locked 1911s bothers them alot.
So the shop owner was just, well, prejudiced and not able to see that many guns besides Glocks are quite serviceable.
Deaf
Georgia1911
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And more voters chose the current President. Does that make him the right choice?
JohnBiltz
Member
Let me guess, you own a 1911. One true advantage of the Glock is an owner can do his own work on it and it is easy to do so. You are right about not owning a lot of tools though, all you need is a punch. If I had to generalize 1911 people like to pay gunsmiths a lot of money. Now I don't like 1911s. They do not particularly fit my hand. Double stacks feel good to me. A friend of mine went through a nightmare with a 1911 back in 80s. No one was happy but the gunsmith.
ugaarguy
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You need a punch? I can detail strip a 1911 with no tools other than parts that come off the pistol.
The 1911 patent expired long ago. I can't help that some companies build them wrong. It's analogous to calling all polymer frame pistols Glocks, and saying Glocks are junk because Taurus makes junk glocks.
What makes the 1911 so attractive is:
Looks
Ergonomics
Function
Simplicity
Your observation of Glocks in competition is indicative of shooter skill. The 1911 is not outshot by any other pistol. That is just false. How many of your S&W's dominate any shooting discipline? Name one?
Looks
Ergonomics
Function
Simplicity
Your observation of Glocks in competition is indicative of shooter skill. The 1911 is not outshot by any other pistol. That is just false. How many of your S&W's dominate any shooting discipline? Name one?
Billy Shears
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That stupid full length guide rod is not part of the original design. The 1911 doesn't need it. In fact it's presence is indicative of the only thing wrong with the 1911: the profusion of gimcracks that got added by companies looking to sell things to people, whether they needed them or not.
For people who can take advantage of its features, shoot better, that's what. The Glock's a great gun. I've never seen an S&W autoloader I'd be willing to pay money in order to own. And you want to talk about "boat anchors"? My department issued me a 5946TSW (just before we switched to Glocks) that weighed way too damn much, and was a piece of junk on top of that. In fact, I was issued three of them. The first two couldn't be made to shoot reliably.
It isn't. As someone else stated, that's shooter skill. 1911s still remain the first choice of a great many competitive shooters, and with good reason.
It's not a myth. Just because your 1911's trigger may not be that good, or because you may not have the skill to take advantage of the 1911's trigger does not mean that it is a myth. In addition to being capable of being tuned to a very light pull, the 1911 has a shorter trigger pull, and shorter trigger reset than any other handgun. This allows a shooter who has the necessary level of skill to shoot accurately faster than he can with just about any other gun. This is why the gun is still so favored by competitive shooters. As I said, it takes a high level of skill to be able to exploit this advantage. But those who have it, can and do. Just because you don't doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the gun.
Whatever floats your boat. As I said, I have no use for S&W autoloaders. When my department changed over to the Glock, the only reason I bought my S&W 5946TSW for $150 was because I knew someone willing to pay $300 for it.
Zerodefect
member
You can get a 1911 with a full feed ramp. If you want one, just ask. Many Al framed 1911's have them. IMO, all Al framed 1911's should. But with steel frames, it really doesn't matter.
I'm a Glock or 1911 guy. No other type of pistol out there for me (except mini CCW Kahr .380's).
But there is alot a 1911 deos better than Glock.
-way less recoil
-actually has some weight to it
-speed reholster. I don't dare rush a reholster during carbine transitions with a Glock. (Glockleg)
-have a good trigger. I've done every mod to the Glocks trigger out there. It still sucks and has that stupid drop safety in the middle of the trigger
-not be fat
-checkered grips, front strap, rear strap.
I wouldn't recommend letting the small sample of cheap junk 1911's you've seen wreck your opinion of them. It's going to cost something to get a good reliable1911 that is rust resistant like a Glock.
A good 1911 is every bit as reliable as a Glock. At least mine is. So far my DW Valor is more reliable than my Glock 23. The 1911 is really an experienced shooters pistol, it takes some homework to get the best out of them.
Sport45
Member
Ever see a Glock dressed up for a BBQ?
Tell him if he'll throw in a free Glock with the ammo purchase you'll take it home and give it a try.
Tell him if he'll throw in a free Glock with the ammo purchase you'll take it home and give it a try.
boricua9mm
Member
No such pistol exists. The closest thing to your description would be a Springfield TRP or Professional but they're not "military junk" pistols. They are built using forged slides and frames from IMBEL in Brasil, which you would be hard pressed to prove as "inferior materials." Those pistols are still assembled and hand fitted in the USA.
Nobody is paying thousands for inferior imported crap, becuase a pistol fitting that description and price point simply does not exist on the marketplace.
tinygnat219
Member
Disclaimer: I'm a Glock fan over a 1911 any day of the week, but I keep that opinion to myself as I don't care what someone else likes or dislikes, if they can hit what they aim at and it's a reliable gun, who am I to really judge? What I DO care about are opinions that are slewn about as judgements on another's carry choice. :banghead:
Cute responses for next time:
I like my grip to be comfortable, I see that you don't.
I don't put my firearms in the dishwasher.
I like fully supported chambers.
I like supporting American manufacturers.
I don't like firearms that can be lost in a recycling bin.
It's these semblances of "my choice is superior to your choice" in our industry that I really tend to dislike.
Cute responses for next time:
I like my grip to be comfortable, I see that you don't.
I don't put my firearms in the dishwasher.
I like fully supported chambers.
I like supporting American manufacturers.
I don't like firearms that can be lost in a recycling bin.
It's these semblances of "my choice is superior to your choice" in our industry that I really tend to dislike.
USSR
Member
Guys, don't feed the troll.
Don
Don
Billy Shears
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Carry comfortably, all day long, in an inside the waistband holster, that's what. And a 1911 unquestionably, incontrovertibly, does it better. There is no full size handgun as flat as a 1911. That, plus the rounded upper and lower slide and frame surfaces make it far more comfortable to carry this way, and the flat cross section allows the gun to be carried tight to the body, and to be more concealable.
And on top of that, many people, myself included, shoot the 1911 better. That's more the shooter than the gun, but there it is. When I take my guns to the range, I can shoot the 1911 better than I shoot the Glock. So that's what I like. If you are going to tell me that I am somehow "wrong" for this... Well, don't bother. It would be a foolish thing to say.
docnyt
Member
It's hard not to be mistaken for a troll if you've only been a member for a few days and are already engaged in futile debates about one pistol versus another. JMB would be laughing at your "design flaws" that have stood the test of a hundred years. If polymer technology were in existence back then, I'm almost sure JMB would have incorporated that in the design of another pistol.
Billy Shears
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Then you don't have proper gear. It's not the gun's fault if you don't have proper gear. Any gun should be carried with a proper holster and a belt -- not just any belt, but a proper gun belt -- that holds it securely (mine's a 1 1/4" leather gun belt from Uncle Mike's). Carry the gun in the proper holster, with the proper belt, and you don't even notice the weight.
Neither would I. You're apparently blaming the gun for your own failure to adhere to smart carry practices.
The .45ACP ones are actually wider through the slide. They also have flat upper slide surfaces, which are less ideal for IWB. They've also begun to exhibit quality control problems. I have a Mk40 that's a great gun. I like it. But I had a TP40 that I got rid of because it just wasn't reliable enough. The gun shop I bought it from has stopped carrying Kahr products, because they had to send too many back for service.
The most widely eaten hamburger in the world is from McDonald's. Doesn't mean it's the best. The appeal to popularity fallacy is just that: a fallacy.
Yeah there was: all the 1911s in government arsenals were half a century old or older (the last ones having been made during WWII), and had had hundreds of thousands of rounds put through them. They were worn out. But they'd still served for decades, and had hundreds of thousands, in some cases, possibly actually over a million, rounds put through them. Yes, clear proof that the design is utter crap.
The age and worn condition of the guns, plus a desire to standardize on the 9mm cartridge that the rest of NATO was using, not a problem with the design, was the reason that the armed forces changed.
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boricua9mm
Member
It's really hard to take this stuff seriously
Cheaply made? Yes, because manual, skilled labor was cheap back when the 1911 was designed. Today, CNC and automation is cheaper than skilled labor. If I remember correctly, there were discussions back in the 80s that Glocks cost of around $50 to produce. You can't manufacture a 1911 for that kind of money in today's world.
Poorly designed? If you say so, but clearly the Veterans of WWI and WWII, the Marine Expeditionary Unit (amongst other specialized military units), the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team, and tons of people in the Law Enforcement and civilan world disagree with you.
Used for a few years until being ditched for something BETTER? If a few years means from 1911 until 1985, then I guess that's just a few
As for the M9 being better, I'd love to hear how this is quantified. The FACTS are that the US needed to replace its inventory of pistols in the 1980s, and 9mm was on deck due to their desire to go with the widely used NATO caliber. Without supporting arguments, cited sources, and a separation of emotional attachment to inanimate objects, statements like "The 1911 is Military JUNK" simply can't be taken as factual. There's a lot of us academians here, convince us!
It is not uber reliable at all. My agency was armed with 6906's for 15 years and they were constantly malfunctioning during quals. Constantly.
A feedramp integral to the barrel does nothing for reliability. In a1911 the bullet tip does not snag against anything in that area being the feedramp in the frame is positioned closer to the mag than the throat of barrel.
Absolutely.
That is why the 1911 is so famous. How long was the Patterson in service? How long was the SAA in service? Those two platforms were quickly replaced with more advanced designs, while the 1911 continued to serve because to date no one has been able to improve on the tilt-barreled locked-breech concept.
Junk is a proven fact? So the FBI SWAT teams are deploying junk? Nice junk for $2500 a piece. I guess your cite is worth as much as junk.
So we're down to carry weight now? Wow, How bout a 1911 with an aluminum frame? How'bout then? U gonna argue about a couple ounces?
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