Mountain Lion Attack

[Purgatory]

With wild lands being more and more infringed upon by our ever expanding cities, wild animal attacks are consistently rising in many areas. As we move into their territories, they treat us like they would treat any other animal our size.

One situation that I've heard of often enough to ponder many times over the years is this scenario:

A couple are hiking and one is attacked by a mountain lion. The other does everything they can to scare, beat, fight it off, but the wild cat is in kill mode and almost impervious to distraction or pain.

Most often the cat is latched onto the victim's face (covering the nose and mouth) or neck (throat or back of neck) and has no intention of releasing its bite until the victim expires.

In this type of instance, I have always wondered, if I was carrying a firearm, just where would I shoot the animal in order to force it to let go of the victim as quickly as possible.

Remember: A head shot would put the victim at great risk in this scenario, yet time is of the essence.

Here is a reference for those interested:
http://www.cougarinfo.org/attacks3.htm

 

[mljdeckard]

Seriously? All reason and direction would fly out the window when you have a cougar clamped to your head. You will be doing well to draw, and realize that you are shooting the animal and not yourself at all.

They are the strongest cat in the world for their weight. If he latches to your neck, I strongly doubt you will be able to do much of anything.

 

[J_McLeod]

I think he means where would the person not being attached shoot. He referenced a couple. In that situation I'd just concentrate on hitting the cat and not the victim. If the bullet over penetrates and hits the victim, they're being eaten by a mountain lion, it can't get much worse than that. Maybe shooting a round at the ground or air would scare it off, but that would depend on the conditions.

The most danger is to people hiking or running alone.

 

[Purgatory]

Lol. Thank you, Mljd. You're absolutely right about that.

I'm really asking what you would do to save a 'victim' being attacked.

If you were all alone and attacked by a 200 lb cat, I doubt there'd be much to ponder. Hopefully you'd be able to get a hold of your firearm if you had one.

Your post did make me laugh pretty good, though.

 

[Hoppe]

I would agree shooting most any wild animal that attacked you as not easy but possable. As I read your question you are asking if you had to shoot any animal attacking somone else. In that case I would go for the hart&lung shot as the best shot. If situation presented me with a shot from behind the cat I would shot for spin as high as possable.

 

[tarosean]

This scenario played out in Idaho the other day, except that it was a Grizzly not a cat.
Cannot tell much from the articles other than it took a number of shots from point blank range to finally stop the attack. The hunter turned victim passed away.

 

[MattTheHat]

A bear attack is one thing, especially when its hungry or is protecting its young. It's going to get ugly really fast. An animal that big and that fast with that much power is going to take some serious persuading to get it to disengage.

Perhaps I'm foolish but I just don't fear anything from a mountain lion, but a sneak attack from above and behind and when alone. I honestly can't see a mountain lion being anywhere near as difficult to reason with. It's a thin-skinned cat, even if it is man-sized. I would think a few rounds of whatever you have on tap would do the trick. In such territory I'd be carrying my 10mm 1911. Once pointed, I could unload 8 rounds here and about the broad side in under 2 seconds without much fear of hitting the victim. I just don't see a wild American cat of any size being able to survive that vigorous a defense, much less ignore it all together and keep chewing.

A big PO'ed Grizzly, on the other hand, well I guess nothing would surprise me. I hope I never find myself needing to know.

-Matt

 

[tarosean]

The bear attack was a case of mistaken identity they were hunting Black Bear and had already shot the Grizz.

http://www.kxly.com/news/29225688/detail.html

 

[Mr.Blue]

Shoot for the heart and lungs, as well as the genitals/butthole area.

 

[Panzercat]

Mountain lions...You are clear to fire just about anywhere at will.

But yeah. Here in AZ I remember a notable story about a well traveled and normally safe bike path. One day, a mountain lion decided it was a great place to pick up food on the go and took a biker clean of his wheels, nom'd on his head for a bit before somebody could throw rocks at it to scare it off.

Nom nom nom nom.

 

[x_wrench]

IF you even had the presence of mind to do so, a shot in the spine with an ample caliber firearm will almost always drop anything right in its tracks. but that is an awfully small area to aim at and hit on a stationary animal, let alone one that is thrashing around and fighting. if you were presented with a spinal shot, by all means, TAKE IT! but basically, i would shoot it in the vitals until it let go. it will surely die afterwards, but your immediate concern is for your fellow human, not harvesting the animal. although doing so could at least rule out rabies afterwards if it was tested. saving your friend many painful shots if not needed.

 

[scaatylobo]

I look at this as I did a child held by a dog and being shaken.

I will try for a contact wound as that will get all the gasses into the body cavity of the animal.

I possible I would use a large blade [ yes I always carry one ] to sever the neck causing fast bleed out.

It would depend on the circumstances at the time,I hope I can adjust to them as required.

I have given both a good deal of thought so I dont expect to be caught flat footed,so to speak.

I also spend a bit of time in the woods in a few parts of the country = ARMED at all times.

 

[tbutera2112]

if walking as a couple, i would assume you would be close together...if youre that close to the mountain lion at the time of the attack, i would go for a head shot from the side, even if you physically had to place the barrel of your gun against its head

 

[hso]

Mountain lions have been driven off after attacking people by being pummeled with bikes, rocks and even fists by folks trying to free/save the victim.

As any hunter will tell you, a hear/lung shot or a high spinal shot is desirable when putting down an animal.

 

[browneu]

This is why I don't go walking in the woods by myself. I would say center of mass where the lungs and heart is.

Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk

 

[ATBackPackin]

Cats and bears are polar opposites when it comes to hunting. Cats almost never are willing to take what they see as risks. I would imagine shooting a cat anywhere would make it run. There are many examples where cats have starved to death because they are not willing to take risks. Risks to cats mean they may injure something that will prevent them from hunting in the future and 99 times out of a 100 will not take them, conceding until the next opportunity.

Bears especially brown bears, well they will attack for many different reasons and therefore present a much greater risk to humans.

 

[RaceM]

I'm going to take issue with one premise in this scenario. "With wild lands being more and more infringed upon by our ever expanding cities, wild animal attacks are consistently rising in many areas." That statement is straight out of the Green handbook. *I* submit that the problem is the current and/or future restriction on hunting the beasties to keep their numbers in check.

A few years ago out here in Oregon a law was passed by the do-gooders to prohibit the hunting of cats using dogs. Since that time the number of incursions by the cougars into suburban areas has increased. Why? Cats have a big range, and the more cats there are the further they are going to roam in search of territory to stake out. Cougars don't need protecting, people do.

To answer the question of where to shoot.... anywhere you can hit. And keep doing it until the thing just lies there twitching. Preferably using something with a large bore.

 

[Mike1234567]

IMHO, a head or neck shot would work fine if carefully placed... if the victim and aggressor are still enough and you point away from the victim.

 

[shtinkypuppie]

Firarms, knives, ect. are total overkill for mountain lions.
Mountain lions are predators. They are not looking to attack for reasons of self-defense or territorial defense. Thus they are not hard to fight off. If you put up enough of a fight, even with just your fists, mountain lions will almost always disengage. They aren't attacking you for a fight, and if you're more trouble to take down than you're worth, they will cut their losses. Federal land agencies like the Park Service have extensively studied mountain lion attacks, and have found that even a few thrown fists can deter most attacks.
As you can see from the relative rarity of mountain lion attacks (2 in 2010, in a country of 300 million), they are, by and large, not an issue. I spend a lot of time the backcountry, all of it solo, often in prime mountain lion habitat, and they are simply not on my list of concerns. Children and runners do seem to be at a somewhat higher risk, but you're still in far more danger driving to the trailhead than you are from mountain lions.
Hunting mountain lions is not the answer. When you kill the apex predator, the prey increase, and you get 'plauges' of rabbits and other agricultural pests. They are already a species under intense pressure from habitat fragmentation and degradation, vehicular kills, and hunting/poaching.

 

[scaatylobo]

shtynkiepuppy

I agree somewhat.

I see being actually attacked by another where your firearm is going to stop the attack or save you - as highly unlikely.

That does not stop me ,and tens of thousands from going armed IN CASE.

That being the case,you can choose to go naked in the woods.

I go armed for any and all 'possibilitys'.

The rise of bear attacks is far more on my mind as are boar,than lions.

And the 2 legged beast that roam the city and woods are even more a threat than bears etc.

So do as you choose,I will too.

 

[tbutera2112]

^ i agree with this. i am more afraid of other humans than i am of being attacked by a mountain lion or a bear.

the likely hood is so much higher of being a victim of humans than it is to be a victim of an animal....and you just never know when and where you are going to run into the "wrong" person.

having been attacked before and being defenseless - it is not a risk im EVER willing to take again....if i have to shoot a mountain lion or a bear or whatever else, so be it, but they are not my primary concern, and i will carry regardless of whether they become extinct or not

 

[GLOOB]

if walking as a couple, i would assume you would be close together...if youre that close to the mountain lion at the time of the attack, i would go for a head shot from the side, even if you physically had to place the barrel of your gun against its head

Doesn't matter what distance you are at the time. You have plenty of time to close distance, once the cat has chosen your friend for a snack. Last thing I'd want if a cat attacked me is for my friend to panic and start emptying his pistol in my general direction from 40 feet away. I might be able to fight off a mountain lion by myself, without the help of a bullet accidentally killing/maiming me.

I'd close distance. And if there were a big stick around, I'd use that, first. Like shtinky says, even a kick or a punch will do, and it would be a lot safer for your friend. Your presence, alone, will likely save your friend no matter if you're armed or not. When the cat is trying to get a kill, it's extremely vulnerable. While it's clamped onto your friend, it can't defend itself from you. Mountain lions don't normally come over and sit down right next to you with their backside exposed, for a reason. If you don't immediately run the other way, the cat will already to wary of your presence. BTW, 200 lbs would be a freakishly large mountain lion.

 

[Loosedhorse]

where would I shoot the animal in order to force it to let go of the victim as quickly as possible.

It's an unlikely scenario, since as mentioned cats don't like to attack or hang around without odds in their favor. But sure, I'll play.

The cat and victim are going to be moving, rolling and thrashing around, so it's is unclear at what moment and on what portion of the cat you'll feel you have a safe shot. Likely far away from the cat's teeth (which is my preferred location, anyway), as the teeth are munching on some part of the victim.

The standard for ANY defensive shooting is: shoot what's available for as long as it's available unless something better becomes available. I can fire 5 shots in a little over a second. I suspect five shots in the haunches, and the cat will notice.

 

[rcmodel]

A chest/COM shot will take a while to have a killing effect.
Even if you break the spine you still got a PO'd wounded cat chewing & clawing on your friend.

Best bet if you can is to stick the gun in the cats ear and pop it.

Mountain Lion hunters kill the heck out of treed cats with a head shot out of .22 WRM revolver.

rc

 

[Purgatory]

"With wild lands being more and more infringed upon by our ever expanding cities, wild animal attacks are consistently rising in many areas." That statement is straight out of the Green handbook.

No, I really didn't intend to sound 'Green' with that statement. I was only laying down a premise for my question so as to convey the reality of the issue and its application to the average person reading this almost anywhere in the U.S.

I live in North Texas and often see Bobcats and Coyotes in places that make me do a double-take. It's pretty common for small children and pets to be snatched by Coyotes--sometimes right in front of the parents/owners. City folk and wild animals are dwelling closer all the time.

BTW, 200 lbs would be a freakishly large mountain lion.

Males can run 8 feet long and 180 lbs. I exaggerated just a touch for effect.
Regardless, they can drag off 200-400 lbs of incapacitated prey with ease.

For those who picture the scenario as a dust ball of thrashing, I tend to think there would be much less movement if a cat that large and powerful had a lock bite on your face, throat or back of neck.

I have read victims' accounts of only being able to move enough to gouge at the eyes or yank on the ears. Usually to no avail.

But, most certainly, there is no hard fast rule of how it would play out.

Even if you break the spine you still got a PO'd wounded cat chewing & clawing on your friend.

This is exactly what I was pondering. I have seen video of wild cats, lions, etc., that are so enthralled in the mental 'kill-mode' that almost no amount of damage to the cat's body had any effect at all.

I think a heart/lung shot may very well be your only choice considering the position of a cat mounted on the victim--making a spine shot very risky. Possibly an additional pelvic shot or two to hasten its release.