Hi all,
I had a semi-serious run in yesterday with a local blowhard in the town where I work. A guy in traffic felt I cut him off. I disagree, but suffice it to say that even if I conceded the point, the slight would have been so minor as to truly not bear dwelling upon.
At this point he follows me down the road, about a half a mile, until we get to an intersection blocked off by a truck. I now have cars in front and behind me, and a tall curb to my right. The guy (actually his wife or gf, he wasn't even driving) boxes me in on the left and starts belligerantly complaining and demanding an apology. I'm alert at this point but still not too worried. He's obviously worked up and acting very self-rightous, but I wasn't about to indulge his whining and told him essentially that he wasn't going to get his apology and that life is unfair, people are jerks sometimes and he's in for a long, sad life if he's going to expect an apology from everyone he thinks wronged him. I finally told him he should probably just move on.
That went over, shall we say, like a lead brick. The guy totally flipped out. Explatives, screaming, spitting, veins throbbing on his forhead, the whole nine yards. At this point, I'm a bit stunned (I was still processing that he wanted to take it this far, something I wasn't expecting). Then he threatens to get out of the car and beat my a**. At this point, I'm in condition red, but I have a few problems, and mind you, the guy is basically halfway out his window and at the time I gave it a 65/35 that he was actually going to step out of the car:
1) This is the point where I'd normally leave, but traffic is still stopped due to the truck and I'm boxed in
2) I work in WI (live in MN) so my carry piece isn't with me. Even if I had it, we're still not at the point where I'd be justified in using it. Depending on the sympathies of a responding officer, I might be able to get off for simple brandishing, but I wouldn't bet my gun rights or freedom on it, and happen to think it'd have probably been illegal to do, given the circumstances.
3) I don't have any less lethal options with me.
Now, I'm in shape and I do have some limited but formal unarmed combat training from the Army (not just from basic training), but honestly I'm a bit rusty. Moreover, I estimate that the guy had a minimum of 75 lbs on me, maybe as much as 90 or 100, and trust me, the man was seeing red. Also, we're quite close. If we'd both opened our car doors, I think they would've touched.
Now, obviously, Plan A is not to get in a fight, but I wasn't entirely sure that was a choice. Going over the incident in my head (repeatedly) I think that sitting in the car, while probably the safest legal choice, was a very poor tactical one. I think that if I was out of the car first, I would be in a very good position to punish him as he tried to exit (perhaps even prevent him from doing so), and had he been out first, the same would've been true for him, and that's why I wouldn't want to be seated (window closed or not) if he got out of his car. Sadly, I feel that had I set foot on the pavement first, it not only would have definitely provoked him to step out as well, but also that would make me the aggressor, even if I had no intention of doing anything further if he were to remain in his vehicle. It was a tough call, but fortunately he ended up driving off. Obviously that's all well and good, but my post here is concerned with how I could protect myself if it had gone the other way.
The WI deadly weapon statute has basically 2 important prongs. It has to be designed as a weapon and has to be capable of inflicting great bodily harm. I believe this would mean that an Asp is legally a DW, but a baseball bat is not. A small (<3.5") knife isn't a DW, but Ka-Bar is. That's the way I read it, but in the end, it seems that even if this guy was hellbent on beating the tar out of me, I wouldn't be legally able to use such levels of force until I (tactically too late) could show that he wanted to cause me death or great bodily harm. Am I mistaken in thinking that it would be unwise to use a bat/knife (or threat thereof) hoping that a jury would buy that since he was so much bigger that deadly force was justifiable? Yes, yes, I know most of you aren't lawyers, but I'm interested in what you have to say anyway.
I reported the incident to the police so that I have it on file in case of a future run in, but I didn't get a plate so unless he's doing this often, then it's doubtful he'll be caught. Incidntally, the cop I spoke with was very sympathetic and openly stated that he thought WI should be CCW. Unfortunately he recommended a knife (not appropriate in the situation, IMO), a taser (illegal in WI, which I told him) and OC spray, which I think would've offered the best possible solution given the situation, but I'm not sure of its legality and/or carry and transport restrictions. He did offer the standard non-escalation advice, which he was right on. Well meaning and very nice, but not a lawyer.
I think that maybe I should get some OC, if legal, and brush up on my unarmed skills. This incident gave me a real wakeup call on how serious a situation could get without necessarily being able to resort to a handgun.
I realize that I could've bent over for the guy and probably avoided the situation, but I don't believe in that sort of enabling, and I don't think anyone should have to behave out of fear of another person's bullying.
If you've read this far, thanks for doing so. I'm hoping for some helpful feedback.
Reid
I had a semi-serious run in yesterday with a local blowhard in the town where I work. A guy in traffic felt I cut him off. I disagree, but suffice it to say that even if I conceded the point, the slight would have been so minor as to truly not bear dwelling upon.
At this point he follows me down the road, about a half a mile, until we get to an intersection blocked off by a truck. I now have cars in front and behind me, and a tall curb to my right. The guy (actually his wife or gf, he wasn't even driving) boxes me in on the left and starts belligerantly complaining and demanding an apology. I'm alert at this point but still not too worried. He's obviously worked up and acting very self-rightous, but I wasn't about to indulge his whining and told him essentially that he wasn't going to get his apology and that life is unfair, people are jerks sometimes and he's in for a long, sad life if he's going to expect an apology from everyone he thinks wronged him. I finally told him he should probably just move on.
That went over, shall we say, like a lead brick. The guy totally flipped out. Explatives, screaming, spitting, veins throbbing on his forhead, the whole nine yards. At this point, I'm a bit stunned (I was still processing that he wanted to take it this far, something I wasn't expecting). Then he threatens to get out of the car and beat my a**. At this point, I'm in condition red, but I have a few problems, and mind you, the guy is basically halfway out his window and at the time I gave it a 65/35 that he was actually going to step out of the car:
1) This is the point where I'd normally leave, but traffic is still stopped due to the truck and I'm boxed in
2) I work in WI (live in MN) so my carry piece isn't with me. Even if I had it, we're still not at the point where I'd be justified in using it. Depending on the sympathies of a responding officer, I might be able to get off for simple brandishing, but I wouldn't bet my gun rights or freedom on it, and happen to think it'd have probably been illegal to do, given the circumstances.
3) I don't have any less lethal options with me.
Now, I'm in shape and I do have some limited but formal unarmed combat training from the Army (not just from basic training), but honestly I'm a bit rusty. Moreover, I estimate that the guy had a minimum of 75 lbs on me, maybe as much as 90 or 100, and trust me, the man was seeing red. Also, we're quite close. If we'd both opened our car doors, I think they would've touched.
Now, obviously, Plan A is not to get in a fight, but I wasn't entirely sure that was a choice. Going over the incident in my head (repeatedly) I think that sitting in the car, while probably the safest legal choice, was a very poor tactical one. I think that if I was out of the car first, I would be in a very good position to punish him as he tried to exit (perhaps even prevent him from doing so), and had he been out first, the same would've been true for him, and that's why I wouldn't want to be seated (window closed or not) if he got out of his car. Sadly, I feel that had I set foot on the pavement first, it not only would have definitely provoked him to step out as well, but also that would make me the aggressor, even if I had no intention of doing anything further if he were to remain in his vehicle. It was a tough call, but fortunately he ended up driving off. Obviously that's all well and good, but my post here is concerned with how I could protect myself if it had gone the other way.
The WI deadly weapon statute has basically 2 important prongs. It has to be designed as a weapon and has to be capable of inflicting great bodily harm. I believe this would mean that an Asp is legally a DW, but a baseball bat is not. A small (<3.5") knife isn't a DW, but Ka-Bar is. That's the way I read it, but in the end, it seems that even if this guy was hellbent on beating the tar out of me, I wouldn't be legally able to use such levels of force until I (tactically too late) could show that he wanted to cause me death or great bodily harm. Am I mistaken in thinking that it would be unwise to use a bat/knife (or threat thereof) hoping that a jury would buy that since he was so much bigger that deadly force was justifiable? Yes, yes, I know most of you aren't lawyers, but I'm interested in what you have to say anyway.
I reported the incident to the police so that I have it on file in case of a future run in, but I didn't get a plate so unless he's doing this often, then it's doubtful he'll be caught. Incidntally, the cop I spoke with was very sympathetic and openly stated that he thought WI should be CCW. Unfortunately he recommended a knife (not appropriate in the situation, IMO), a taser (illegal in WI, which I told him) and OC spray, which I think would've offered the best possible solution given the situation, but I'm not sure of its legality and/or carry and transport restrictions. He did offer the standard non-escalation advice, which he was right on. Well meaning and very nice, but not a lawyer.
I think that maybe I should get some OC, if legal, and brush up on my unarmed skills. This incident gave me a real wakeup call on how serious a situation could get without necessarily being able to resort to a handgun.
I realize that I could've bent over for the guy and probably avoided the situation, but I don't believe in that sort of enabling, and I don't think anyone should have to behave out of fear of another person's bullying.
If you've read this far, thanks for doing so. I'm hoping for some helpful feedback.
Reid
