Should you let an intruder escape?

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Travlin

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Please tell me if this topic has been talked to death, but I didn't find it in my search.

In many threads about home invasion people have said they would be happy to scare someone away before they entered, or to let them run out of the house after they had been confronted inside. I can understand that. The home invasion is foiled. No one is injured. Legal liability is avoided. But will you ever feel safe again in your own home?

Deliberately trying to clear your house and capture an intruder is not a good idea. You hope the police arrive in time to make a capture. However, if by circumstance you get the drop on someone inside your house, letting him get away could also be very dangerous.

* He could be so angry he decides to come back when you are more vulnerable to finish the job permanently. Or when just your wife and children are there.

* He could feel so humiliated in front of allies in a car outside that they all come back for a group attack at 3:00 a.m.

* He might decide that it is worth a second try because he knows you have at least one gun, maybe more.

* He might come back with a gun of his own this time.

* He might tell his story to others who are better armed and more aggressive.

Speculation can be endless and fruitless; but these are real possibilities that you would think about constantly for a long time. One thing is for sure. If he gets away he will try again somewhere. We aren't police, but letting him go endangers everyone.

What might you do and why? I know that the answer to any question is, "It depends on the circumstances.", so feel free to define you own circumstances.

A good starting point is this thread.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=382755
 
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I'm not going to go out of my way to hold an intruder for the cops. In fact, I want him gone post haste.

However, I don't think I'd purposefully let an intruder go either if I found myself in a position where I had them "contained" (for lack of a better term).

So I guess it kind of depends on how the event plays out. For example, I shout "Freeze <non-THR word>! I have a gun!" while simultaneously wetting myself, and he turns tail and runs, that's fine by me. No way I'm giving chase.

On the other side of that, if I yelled freeze and he froze and laid down on his belly, well, I doubt I'd say, "Nevermind!! Don't freeze! Get up and get the hell out!"


-T.
 
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I wouldn't turn on lights and scare them away.

In fact, if I had the opportunity, I'd lock the doors from the inside so they can't get out. They either comply with my commands to get on the ground, or run towards me and get shot.

I'm not the type to say "Get out of my house! Leave!". I'm also not the type who would go run and hide in the bathroom if a convenience store clerk had a gun pointed at them.
 
If someone violates your home be you at home or not you will have a hard time " feeling safe " again . To answer your question of " should you let an intruder escape ?" Of course you should if the intruder is bent on escape rather than mayhem . Out side of Texas ( and no slam to Texas here , just a statement ) we cannot legally shoot either a thief , nor a fleeing felon . If the criminal runs then let him/her run . The fact that they were confronted will keep them gone , because after all they ( burglers and to an extent home invaders ) look for ready victims , not a fight . Predators dont look for a fight they look for a meal . If a " meal " is too much trouble they move on .
 
If someone illegally enters my home, I will shoot them. Once a criminal crosses that threshold of my home, he lost his right not to get shot.
 
If he attacks, I'll shoot. If he stays, I'll hold him. If he runs, there's nothing more I can legally do; and I have no choice but to let him go. I'll just have to deal with my feelings of frustration and worry that he might come back.

I personally have some doubts that he'd be back. As one instructor of mine said, "Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents." That's not always true, but I'd still have no choice. If he runs, I must let him. I would probably then look at ways to beef up my security.
 
Not to oversimplify the question but it comes down to this:

Are you afraid for your life (or lives of others) to the point that you are forced to use lethal force?

If the answer is yes, do what you have to do... shoot once, twice, three times a lady.

Aside from that, the onus is on you to NOT shoot. If the guy is tuck tailing and running but still in your house, it's a pretty low road route to take the shot. don't base your actions at the time on potential hypotheticals down the line: 'tis a slippery slope.

alright... that's all i'll say. I think this thread is walking a fine line b/w debate and the "LOCK"-er.
 
If he's still in my house I'm still legal to shoot.

Don't want to get shot? Don't illegally enter my home. Pretty simple really.
 
Corner a man, and he'll put up a fight, however cowardly his nature may (or may not) be.

Give him a way out, and 99% of the time, a man will take it, when the alternative is a firefight in the darkness of an armed man's house.

I'm no policeman. If a man who was about to rob me is willing to listen to reason when confronted by the barrel of a gun, then fine by me. I've no wish to kill any man, and I expect that trying to "detain" a robber will end in a fight, one way or another.

If I find a man in my home one night, and I'm looking at him over the barrel of my gun, there are two things that can happen. He goes for a gun/bum rushes me, and we see what my reflexes are like. Or he puts up his hands. If the former happens, then I just hope the adrenaline clears my eyes, and the danger steadies my nerve. If the latter happens, and there's one of those odd moments where it's me and him and we're both wondering what the hell to do now, I hope I have the presence of mind to say something like, "I expect you can get out the same way you came in."

Never corner a man, unless you want to kill him, because like as not that's what you'll have to do.

Disclaimer: It's a personal holiday for me, and I'm drunk out of my mind. It's a miracle I can still type, so this may turn out to be gibberish in the morning.
 
I'm not going to physically prevent an intruder from leaving. That would require me to take my sights off him and make physical contact. Not a wise move when I'm alone with said crook.

If the guy runs off, so be it. If the guy charges me, bad luck for him. I have a magazine full of reasons he shouldn't do that and each one is a convenient 9mm in diameter.
 
Exmasonite --

You have made some very good points. Thank you. I'm not trying to be provocative. I'm trying to learn from other people like you.

Confronting an intruder is extremely perilous. If they don't immediately freeze on command and follow instructions you are left in a very bad position. Even if they seem to be heading toward an exit they could be drawing a handgun -- while they would appear to be retreating and no longer a threat.

I'm looking for some High Road thoughts for guidance.
 
FourNineFoxtrot --

If you make this much sense drunk, I can't imagine what you'd be like sober.
 
In Colorado, if you are in my home illegally you have met the criteria for deadly force. There was an incident her not too long ago where a Colorado homeowner confronted an intruder in his basement & ordered him to leave. the guy turned around walked 2 or 3 steps away turned and fired. home owner was mildly wounded. Another example used the last time this came up was an HBO documentary about people who had killed in self defence. The part I remember was another home owner who confronted a BG in his home while armed W/ shot gun. The BG not only didn't run he dared the home owner to shoot
The home owner promptly obliged.

I said all that to say that confronting a bad guy in your home seems to be an incredibly dangerous thing to do. I'm not trained to apprehend people, I'm not about to get close enough to a bad guy to put handcuffs or any other type of restraint on him.

OTOH I just can't see myself just opening fire
Bottom line I'd probably yell "Get out of my house" & if he didn't do exactly that or he got his hands where I couldn't see them I'd fire.
 
Travlin-

I'm the most boring sober man you've ever met. It's only drunk that I exhibit something like personality.

Also, I have my heritage to thank. Irish, Scot, and German. Good drunks, by and large.

I wish drinking impaired my faculties... I drink to forget, but it never works. Too many things, I wish I could forget. Old wounds, old failures, old friends long dead. Their faces haunt my dreams, to damn my own inadequacy.

At any rate, this "wisdom" is hardly original to me. I learned it reading books, the way I learn most things. L'Amour, mostly. I quote him frequently, when drunk. Although I can trace this one to a Sci-Fi/fantasy author. Robert Jordan, or whatever his name was. God rest his soul. He once said basically the same thing: An army with its back to a wall is going to fight to the bitter end. Give 'em an out, and you'll have little trouble rolling up the flank.

Caveat emptor, of course...
 
Oh great. Another "what if" thread.

You have no right to detain nor harm someone once the threat has ceased. Closing and locking the doors is detaining him.
 
You have no right to detain nor harm someone once the threat has ceased. Closing and locking the doors is detaining him.
Click to expand...
Um, actually yes I do have the right to detain someone. It's called citizen's arrest.
 
FourtyNineFoxTrot,

Those are my two most favorite authors as well, L'Amour especially as I credit him for most of my feelings about how to deal with things when they don't go the way you'd hope or expect... Treo, however brought up a excellent point, and I'd like to elaborate on some of them.

In a burglary situation late at night the BG probably really does just want out. I've usually already called the police or had my wife do that so that i can take up a defensive position to protect the family. My house is Ideally suited to that.

For us with the cops on the way the BG can have anything he wants in the front of the house. That's what insurance is for. My defensive position is behind cover and able to see directly into the children's rooms most especially I can see if they are in bed as well. Once the bad guy enters the hallway he can't see into the kids rooms nor can he see me. Bad place for him to be. If he wants to leave I believe I'd let him..... Gotta try and remember your line LOL.. If he even twitches in our direction he's a goner though.

But I think the OP mentions home invasions and that's a horse of a different color. Things happen much faster and there probably hasn't been time to call the police and for all intensive purposes your on your own. I think I'd then subscribe to L'Amour's advise to attack and always keep attacking to break it up. I know my house and layout better than they do. If you can break it up and keep them outside great, let em go and call the police. If you've broke it up and have a BG cornered. Be very very careful. As Treo said there is evidence of the bad guy turning away to seem to comply and really just turning away to get the opportunity to get his gun out and shoot you.

The type of criminal pursuing a home invasion is usually a repeat type offender that got an education in jail and knows if he can distract you and keep you talking while moving towards you he can probably either go for his own gun or beat the crap out of you and take yours. They practice that in jail. I know I can move 20 feet in just about a second if I want to and I'm kind of a big guy.That's not giving you much time to blink or even catch up with his words to realize your being attacked again.

At any rate Not sure what I would do if faced with such and hope it dosen't happen to any of us here reading this. In the mean time you write a mean piece and I enjoyed seeing another quote L'Amour as I am often want to do.
 
Azwizard-

Attack, attack, attack. L'Amour did indeed say that. Be always on the offensive, never let your enemy get settled in, but keep him uncertain and reacting.

"De l'audace, encore de l'audace, et toujours de l'audace"

Audacity, more audacity, and ever more audacity.

The motto of the French Army, back when that meant something other than surrender. Back when Bonaparte was still a name to be reckoned with, back before the Franco-Prussian war, etc.

And yet (and there is always and ever an 'and yet'), we live in a world constrained by rules. One of those rules, for good or ill, is that we can only kill another man when our own lives are definitively in danger, preferably with ample evidence and proof.

There is, however, no inherent conflict between "attack" and "mercy", such as it is. If audacity and the attack are your tools, then by God, use them well. What I speak of, however, is that troubling instant when one is uncertain if one has an enemy... or a captive.

"No quarter" fails to suffice as rules of engagement, in a land of "Law and order", again, such as it is. If your intruder seeks battle even under the gun, then there is little choice. But if surrender is offered, or even implied by the absence of continued threat, then there is no choice but to accept it.

The difference between "us" and "them" is that we neither seek the battle, nor seek bloody-handed retribution at its end. Let the man go, if he'll go willingly. It's a better option than murder, for that's what it would be.
 
Travlin,

Everyone has to learn somehow. This is one way.

IMHO you need to be well acquainted with the applicable laws governing self defense in your state, and even more familiar with their actual application in your local jurisdiction. Those laws should inform your thinking and govern your actions where self defense is concerned.

How do you find out? Take a concealed carry class in your state if one is available. Talk to a local DA or criminal defense attorney, local LEOs, etc. If you are going to get information, it should be from reliable sources.

Read what the 'black letter law' says in your case. Understand that case law means just as much or more than law book law in some states.

In NC, self defense law is mostly case law. Self defense stops the instant the attack stops. And there is no citizens arrest. It is legal to shoot someone who is in the process of making a violent and tumultuous entry into your dwelling- through the door, the wall, the window. But every state is different, and every jurisdiction is different. Learn yours...

More than just the legal aspects of self defense matter, however. The main component is the moral, not the legal. I strongly suggest you read carefully the first section of notes at http://www.teddytactical.com/archive/MonthlyStudy/2007/02_StudyDay.htm .

hth,

lpl
 
You have no right to detain nor harm someone once the threat has ceased. Closing and locking the doors is detaining him
Click to expand...

Colorado Revised Statute 16-1-203. If you see a person commit a crime you may detain that person and turn him/her over to the police.
 
If the intruder has been given a warning and does not flee, I'm in immediate fear of my life and will respond accordingly. My general plan is the racking of a 12 gage shell into the chamber is the warning.
If on the other hand, I have him disarmed and he suddenly bolts/flees, I wouldn't intentionally shoot him. However I could see not knowing whether he was fleeing or attacking the split second he moves and shooting.

You can't always know how you'll respond. The one time my place was broken into at 3 AM I simply grabbed my pistol and rolled over onto stomach with gun pointed at the bedroom door waiting. Luckily whoever it was retreated and never opened the door. In retrospect I should have shouted some warning. However it was 3 in the morning, and I was simply reacting, no time to formulate.
 
It seems to me that retaliation would be more likely if you encounter ended with the intruder being arrested or killed; that would be an escalation over the B&E. If somebody breaks into my house and then decides to run away when they hear me a'comin', great! About the last thing I want to do is be forced to confront someone who may have a weapon and the will to use it.
 
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