Will 1911s fade away with the previous generation

[tinygnat219]

Newton,

Interesting post. There has only been one other design that approaches the 1911 in history, use of combat, and other neat things that I could remember if I hadn't been moving someone all day and that's the 1872 Colt Model P, or SAA.

More manufacturers now than ever are making the 1911 or some variant. I can count: Kahr (through Auto-Ordnance), Smith and Wesson, Colt, Kimber, Les Baer, Dan Wesson, Taurus, Springfield Armory, Para Ordnance, and lots of other nifty companies both large and small.

It's a combat proven design going stronger now than almost any other time in its history. It's a testament to the staying power of the design.

There's only three other pistols right now that I would consider in the 1911's league in a historical sense: the Smith and Wesson Model 10 Revolver in .38 SPL, it's been in production since 1899 in one form or another, the Browning 35 9MM pistol that introduced the semi-auto design that is used by most of the other semi-autos today, and the Glock 17.

I think as more people look at the 1911, the more tend to like it.

 

[Spartacus451]

I am 23 years old. I love the 1911. The only gun I want to replace the 1911 would be a 1911 without the grip safety. I have four centerfire handguns and 3 of them are 1911s. I don't think it is going anywhere until someone replicates the ergonomics (I actually like the Glock grip angle better but...) and trigger of a 1911 with a simpler easier to manufacture correctly design.

 

[XavierBreath]

The 1911 is definitely an old achronism destined to fade away into obscurity. I would hate to see any young person carry such an awful weapon. Those safeties van be utterly confusing, and can mean certain death in a crisis.

No, far better that you equip yourself with something new and improved. Send your 1911s to me and I'll dispose of 'em fer ya!

 

[Danus ex]

I argue that the "American icon" thing doesn't count for squat among my generation (I'm 24) because so few young people really know anything about guns. Yet, when I introduce people to handgun shooting, most eventually gravitate toward the 1911 during a session--not because of its mythos, but because of its merit. The 1911 is very comfortable to use and is ridiculously easy to shoot accurately. "My" newbies usually don't care about the 1911's service history, designer, manufacturer, or place of origin; nor do they care about the .45 ACP cartridge. They simply want the pistol that puts jacketed lead on target quickly, easily, and comfortably.

The 1911 will aways be around, but I doubt you will find too many Generation Y shooters (raised on hi cap guns in video games) are going to consider the 1911 the end all and be all.

Depends on the video game . I think many Millennial/Information/Y generation shooters will consider the 1911 to be an integral part of a well-equipped shooter's arsenal.

I'm gonna go off on a tangent here. In terms of the pro-2A movement, video games are today's version of yesteryear's fabled critter-shootin' farmboy antics. Nothing has opened modern young minds to firearms like the prevalence of firearms in video games. I completed two degrees and six years worth of schooling at a humongous "liberal" university and I almost never encountered a rabidly anti-gun young male. There's potential in these guys--the problem is that most of them simply haven't gone shooting or even thought about it much. All of that goes for a smaller percentage (but still the majority) of young women (the rest require persuasion).

Heck, just last weekend, I played airsoft for the first time with several guys around my age. I was the only one present who owned any real firearms (and it showed when the "shooting" started). When I inquired about interest in real guns, everyone was interested, but nobody really knew how to get started with shooting. I outlined a few ways they might begin, but since I'm burdened with my own job search, pennilessness, and fiance, I can't readily play shooting tutor to nine new guys right now. Where are all you retired and/or stable shooters when newbies need you?

 

[sm]

Gosh I hope so.
I would hate like hell to think some folks are not buying all the new gee-whiz stuff, and thus allowing some of us to [strike] bam-boozle folks out of, steal, hoard and keep to ourselves the GI 45 [/strike] drool, dribble ourselves and remember the good old days.

Heck, I tell you what, forget the pistol, Instead gimme a 1897 Winchester pump ...
...oh my, someone done dropped their gee-whiz gun and took off him them sneakers with lights on the back of 'em


Bribery, Blackmail, Cheating and Dirty Doing's will out do youth and skill any day of the week. - Curmudgeons and Reprobates*


*Heck NO, that ain't no video game !

 

[sm]

brownie0486,

You know you have my respect.

Still if'n you are gonna "point" I am gonna "point".
Since shotguns are pointed not aimed, and I have trigger time on shotguns...
I ain't cheatin' I am just using ingenuity is all.

 

[2RCO]

Didn't we just have this same thread? With a new 1911 maker popping up daily I don't think they are going out of style any time soon. When all those Glocks turn from polymer to dust.

 

[brownie0486]

sm,

Good point

Point taken sir.

They've also made highcap 1911's for years for a reason. I've always liked the 1911's, still have one from 1982, the SA green park thats been to hell and back, and several others. I'll not be found dead without several of them like the 70's LW commander in my inventory.

Stay sharp out there

Brownie

 

[Regolith]

I'm 21. The first auto pistol I intend to buy is a GI spec 1911. I somehow doubt they're going away soon.

 

[sm]

Aspirin

1911's such as JMB designed, are like the old 325 mg Aspirin.

Aspirin has been around a long long time, and every new drug that comes out, wants to be as successful, effective, versatile ,well known , respected and "be like Aspirin".

Not safety coated, not time release, not greater milligrams, just be as effective and proven as a plain old 325 mg Aspirin.

Aspirin has not gone anywhere, even though some folks like me, are Allergic to ASA and can no longer use Aspirin or any NSAIDs.

Aspirin is not going to fade out either just because I and others cannot use it, or because there is other newer NSAIDs and Non-NSAIDS such as Tylenol.


Manual Typewriters are still going strong, As are Number 2 pencils, Matches, Candles...

Ironic about Life, as one hangs around a bit, one sees how everything is compared to what is proven and works, and some things come and go, while the items compared to, standards set by- remain.

 

[possum]

i think the 1911 is here to stay for a long time, and i highly doubt that there will ever be a time when they are not so popular, as a matter of fact i believe they are on the rise. more and more companies are making there version, they know what the shooter wants and that is what they are gonna do give the shooter what they want, any company that adds a 1911 to thier line up is smart and business savy for sure. i love the 1911 and i am waiting for mine as i write this it is on order and i am just waiting for it to come in.

 

[Soybomb]

When I inquired about interest in real guns, everyone was interested, but nobody really knew how to get started with shooting. I outlined a few ways they might begin, but since I'm burdened with my own job search, pennilessness, and fiance, I can't readily play shooting tutor to nine new guys right now. Where are all you retired and/or stable shooters when newbies need you?

I bet if you post this in its own thread in the main forum you could find some people in the area willing to set up a range outing to help them get started or at least point them toward a reasonable introductory gun class in the area!

 

[h0ss]

my dad has an original WWI army model 1911 manufactured in 1913. Not the prettiest 1911, but it is a beautiful gun nonetheless. It still shoots beautifully. I own 3 auto pistols, not one of them being a 1911, but in the future, i hope to change that. I am only 26, and i love 1911's. I didn't like them as much when i was younger, because of the appeal of modern auto pistols, but i am learning to appreciate the beauty and function of the 1911 as i get older. I don't see them passing away with the older generations. It's an american icon as far as firearms go, IMO.

 

[Rexster]

I meet plenty of 1911 fans young enough to be my kids. I have had excellent reliability with 5"-barreled 1911 pistols, of several brands, except for Kimbers. It must be all those Kimbers giving the 1911 a bad reputation, and I will NEVER spend money on a Kimber again. (I was able to get the Kimbers working fine, but will never go though that again!) As for a 1000-round day at a shooting school, no disrespect intended, but my hands, forearms, and elbows are too battered and beaten to stand up to half that many handgun rounds a day, unless perhaps with a light-triggered .22 LR. FWIW, my 1911 is mostly dormant these days, resting in the safe, because I am required to carry a DA .40 autoloader as a duty pistol, and I use DA revolving pistols as back-up and off-the-clock weapons. I will probably return to SA pistols when I retire, or when a future new chief possibly changes the firearms policy.

 

[Ala Dan]

Howdy Folk's-

No, the 1911 won't die away from old age; or because a younger generation
is coming along. Thats absurd, as it has served us well for nearly 100 years~!
I can't see it dying an untimely death; just cuz of other more modern designs.
What do you think keeps the custom pistolsmith's in business? Its simple,
supply and demand for the 1911 is as strong today, as it ever was and
with the younger generation coming along; they want what grand-dad
or dad carried in WW-I & II, or in Korea and Viet-Nam~!

 

[1911Tuner]

As for a 1000-round day at a shooting school, no disrespect intended, but my hands, forearms, and elbows are too battered and beaten to stand up to half that many handgun rounds a day,

Another point well taken. A thousdand rounds in a day relates to a defensive pistol the way that the LeMans relates to driving around the block. Gunfights don't reach that level...even on a battlefield.

That said...I've got more than a few 1911s that'll make a grand or more in a day without a choke...even with my ol' nasty ammo.

 

[HisSoldier]

Hauptman said;

"Personally, I think polymer is a cheap alternative to good metal alloys that we are constantly being told is better by the gun companies themselves. I have never known a polymer framed pistol that could compare performance-wise to many of the better metal alloy designs out there. Sure polymer is rust proof, but it also costs a very small fraction of what milling a metal alloy frame costs. Think huge profits for gun makers by lowering production costs and lowering overall costs for more sales. The key of course is to convince the customer that polymer is just as good or better than metal framed pistols.......some buy it, some don't."

It's amazing to me that so many folks can't see that. It's only a matter of time before marketing will figure there are enough believers in hype around that they can press "High tech high density fiber" frames. Oh, that's what they will call paper frames. Step up with yer money boys! I'll take milled steel thank you.

Oh, and the 1911, and all firearms, will fade after hillary gets into the White House.

 

[GunTech]

The 1911 is an old design, certainly. Yes it can be finicky, mostly because people want them tight and super accurate. The original GI 1911 was reliable as all get out, and accurate enough. In a sense, it is an American AK, or really, the AK is the Russian 1911.

As far as other designs, one should recall that SiG is making a 1911 too. Makes one think.

 

[schmeky]

The 1911 isn't going anywhere for a recreational shooter. Its days as a popular service weapon with LE are gone forever. As someone else said, its like revolvers as service weapons.

Perhaps you should tell this to the LAPD SWAT that adopted the Kimber 1911.

 

[brownie0486]

A thousdand rounds in a day relates to a defensive pistol the way that the LeMans relates to driving around the block.

The more the gun will run without cleaning it, tweeking it during the time it takes to get 1K through it in a course of fire [ say 7 hours or so ], the more that tells me about the reliability of that weapon.

No, I won't ever fire 1k in a SD situation on the street, but would that mean I only need a gun that can reliably fire 4-5 rds before it chokes on itself as thats more ammo than I'll need in that situation statisitcally? I don't think so.

Why would every well known gun guru explain that you need to make sure YOUR gun will run at least 200 rds through it with YOUR chosen defensive ammo before you rely on it on the street, if all you need concern yourself with where reliability is concerned is what you'll likely use in a SD shooting?

If you need to make sure 200 [ or more ] will go through it without a hitch and you shoud not rely on a handgun that can't get there, it certainly stands to reason that the more it will get through without choking would be an indication of more reliability rather than less.

Why would the military, the alphabet soup agencies, etc etc, all put requirements on handgun trials where they have to be reliable for a certain amount of uninterupted fire without choking, if all the guns ever going to need to get through is 4-5 rds in a SD shooting situation statistically?

Ahh, I think I know why--because the more the gun can get through on rds count without puking on itself, the more reliable it is considered. That type of trials to determine reliability has been in existance for what, something like 90 years at least right? It's not something new to run a gun hard for as long as it will go until choking to determine how reliable that gun will be on the streets or in battle.

Any gun that can't run 1K on numerous occasions without choking on itself is NOT as reliable as a gun that can. btw-My g17 can regularly get through 4-5K before a good cleaning without any problems and has done so several times over. NO 1911 I've owned can come close to that reliability, let alone duplicate it several times in a row with NO failures of any kind.

I think the idea your gun doesn't have to be reliable for 1K because you won't shoot that much in a SD situation on the street is certainly valid, but the more my guns will run without puking on themselves, the more confidence I have in their functionality when they are cleaned and ready for duty. YMMV, of course.

Brownie

 

[mavracer]

We see 1911's in the ITFTS courses, by the end of the day and 800-1000 rds later, they've all balked one way or another. In fact, I haven't seen but one or two 1911's not choke one way or another in the courses. Thats some high end and low end milspecs and everything in between.

Ya that matters alot I often worry about jamming 800-1000 rounds into a gunfight.great point

 

[brownie0486]

mavracer;

see my last post It's not about "jamming 800-1000 rounds into a gunfight", it's about how reliable the gun is and rds count before it pukes having always been a determing factor in many firearms trials by many agencies for decades in their adopting a firearm.

Even the 1911 had minimal rds count requirements place on it in the initial military trials long ago before it was adopted. It's not about how many you'll use in a SD shooting, it's much more than that. Those minimal rds counts in the trials are there for a reason, to determine reliability among other factors

Brownie

 

[mavracer]

If I miss 7 times, I have 11 more to hit you with. Can't do that with an 8 shot now can you?

if you miss 7 times you'll be bleeding alot.

 

[sm]

Ahh, I think I know why--because the more the gun can get through on rds count without puking on itself, the more reliable it is considered.

I and others agree with this, and I bet 1911Tuner does too.

My take, old school of course...

Too many folks simply do not Investigate and Verify for themselves what works for them.
Not only guns, also the magazine and the ammunition.

Instead they put blind faith on what some LEO agency, Military Branch, Gun Magazine, Internet Forum, and even *sigh* TV, Movie and Video game hype.


This is where I personally stay in trouble.
Like a dummy I keep repeating Gun Fit to Shooter, Correct Basic Fundamentals, lessons/training, continued quality practice.

No secret I personally like the 1911, BHP and K frame platforms.
I do not deny I chose these as a very young person as MY personal choices, based on actually trying these guns, amongst others of the times.

Born in '55 , so many of the guns of today not even around, forget the .40 cal, not even thought of.

Now, gun fit to shooter, correct basics and all that.

If a person cannot effectively shoot a 1911, BHP, or K frame...fine and dandy by me!
Investigate , Verify and let us find what this person can use effectively.

I have dealt like others around here, with folks that have physical limits.
Either born this way, injuries or whatever.

If one does not have "most" of a shooting thumb, it is darn hard to snick off a safety on a 1911, or BHP...Smith Model 39, Beretta Puma [dated myself huh?]
Maybe that thumb missing, does not fit a K frame well....but a Colt Detective Special does.

Glocks the same way.
Life is Life, and one "was" able to shoot a Glock.
Wrist /hand surgery, and dang it, with the bone and muscle and all, maintaining a grip, to insure reliable firing is NOT happening.

Reliability Package includes the Shooter.

I don't care if Teem "SM", TEEM Walrus, PoDunk PD, uses 1911s, BHPS, K frames, Glocks , Sigs, HKs or whatever.
Nor do I care that it "Has to be bigger than 9mm/3spl.

If that Retired Cop, that shot a 1911 and Model 19 and due to health can no longer do so, but can shoot a Tip Up .380 Beretta, that is the gun for him.

Same Tip Up Beretta for a lady, again, she used to be able to shoot a Glock 45ACP and 9mm. She can't, body and physical limits won't allow her to be reliable with those Glocks anymore.

I don't care if the gun is Old, New, Plastic, Metal or feeds from a mag or has a cylinder.

If the person cannot use the gun, and the person is not able to be part of the reliability package of the gun, then don't use that gun.

Heck, a few folks are using OLD Colt DS's made in late 20's and 30's for Carry Guns...

I'll just sit here and wait to get yelled at as I always do ...

 

[Geno]

Colt 1911 had to run 6,000 rounds with zero failures of any kind to be adopted by the military.

Brownie said:

If I miss 7 times, I have 11 more to hit you with. Can't do that with an 8 shot now can you? I'll take the odds of not missing, just like we see in force on force using the skills I impart to others [ btw-our COM hits with the skills we employ are over 90% on the run and at movers ]

Just a minute. Let me collect my many thoughts first: and finally

Go buy yourself a Colt...you're in denial. I think you have pistol envy. If it's all about the rounds, let me grab my Bushmaster Carbon 15, Model 21 with its 90-round magazine and don't forget 1 in the chamber.