Would you trust your life with a 380.

[LiveLife]

I think a lot of the responders here are reading your question, Should I carry a .380 ACP, or something bigger?

I'm reading it, Should I carry nothing, or a .380 ACP?

Two very different questions. I currently carry nothing. So yes, I'd add a .380 to my repertoire and have no doubts about trusting it with my life.

The OP posed the question whether to carry similar sized 9mm pistol or the new Colt Mustang in .380. My vote is still for 9mm with +P JHP or larger.

Would you trust your life with a 380.
You hear alot of criticism about this little cartridge, personally I don't like it just not enough power for me and I can get a similar sized pistol chambered in 9mm. But when I saw that colt was bringing back the mustang I had to have one and it made me reconsider the cartridge itself

 

[Steve CT]

Yes, I do trust my .380, because there are too many times and places it's the only option. With all due respect to the "xxx gr bullet, FPS, FT/LBS" comparisons, it all comes down to what I CAN have with me. Given a choice, it would be an AR with a 30 round mag, a high cap 9 mm, the LCP, and a knife. I can always manage the knife, and virtually always have the LCP.

 

[LiveLife]

Steve, I respectfully disagree. If I am going to shoot anyone, it will be in justified defensive shooting situation and I want the bullet/velocity that will be effective and stop the threat/attack NOW.

The OP posed the question of 9mm vs .380. I think that's a no brainer.

If the OP posed the question of, "Would carrying .380 better than nothing?" then we would be having a completely different discussion.

 

[huntsman]

The OP posed the question of 9mm vs .380. I think that's a no brainer.

no that was his statement his only two questions were

Would you trust your life with a 380.
does anyone like 380 auto.

 

[Master Blaster]

Hmm let me phrase it another way, a .380 on the center of the forehead from 10 feet away will certainly have a much greater one shot stop lethality record than a .45 acp shot that misses, or gets left home in my gunsafe . Or I carry a .380 and practice alot with it, because I cannot 100% conceal every day a bigger pistol. I cannot take a chance on my firearm being seen at work because it would cause trouble for me.

The poster I was responding too said he was a paramedic, so I suspect most shootings he sees are drug related and involve folks who 1. are not legally carrying a gun. 2. are not gun club members and IDPA competitors who practice all the time.

When somone is carrying a .357 or a .44 magnum they are most likely carrying a revolver, are regular shooters who practice, and most likely its much less common than 9mm or even .40 S&W or .380, on the urban street scene.

 

[John_galt]

TennJed, yes. My line of work allowed me to talk to various healthcare/ER staff and the following is a general consensus of gunshot wound victims:

44 Mag/357 Mag - Usually dead at scene or dead during transport to ER

40S&W/45ACP - Usually dead at scene or dead during transport/soon after arrival to ER. Low number of patients survive depending on the type of bullet used.

9mm - Low number of dead at scene (multiple shots with JHP) and often alive at scene and survive when transported to ER timely with good recovery (especially when shot with FMJ/RN rounds).

.380Auto/.38 Spl - Rarely dead at scene and often able to stand/walk for transport. Minimal injury and often bullets won't even break through the peritoneal wall (especially with a lot of belly fat/heavy clothing) and travel around the belly and end up at the back of the body. Patients often make full recovery.

15 yrs an ER doctor. Thats is ridiculous BS. It does not matter what you are hit with only what gets hit. Thats it end of discussion. The rest is just guess and conjecture.

 

[LiveLife]

John_galt, I did state "general consensus" and "there are too many variables to factor in the effectiveness of each caliber round".

Besides, are you basing your comments on what you saw in ER as "survivors" of shooting incidents?

Those that are dead on scene will never make the trip to ER as they will head to the morgue/coroner. For the focus of this thread discussion, death rate is probably more significant than survivor rate. I would be curious as to what the lethality rate of those shot with .380Auto bullets is. That will support whether we should "trust our lives" on .380Auto.

I still stand by my position that 9mm +P JHP is the least that I will go with to "trust my life" with for typical SD shooting situations.

 

[LiveLife]

It does not matter what you are hit with only what gets hit.

Absolutely.

The question is, "Does the .380 Auto bullet have enough penetration/velocity/energy transfer potential to make to the vital organs and do enough initial damage to STOP the threat/attacker in a short period of time?"

What if the shot placement is not direct or deflected with obstacles/heavy clothing?

If the shooting situation where my life was on the line was such that I only had time/got to make only one shot count, I have issues with .380Auto performance.

 

[Fastcast]

I agree with the DR.

Give it up bds....They're dead on the scene based on shot placement not caliber......You're not fooling anyone but the very foolish, with your unscientific facts.

The BS is certainly getting deep!

 

[John_galt]

15 yrs an ER doctor. Thats is ridiculous BS. It does not matter what you are hit with only what gets hit. Thats it end of discussion. The rest is just guess and conjecture.

Not just as an ER Doctor. 11 yrs medical examiner and 4 as Chief ME. Your concensus is ridiculous. Any study ever done on GSW in humans can only be retrospective, and the number of variables involved make it impossible to draw valid conclusions. Animal models might possibly recreate anatomical variables but cannot take into account human variables. So what your left with is guesses and debating with a thin attempt at credibility. Which is fine fun for entertainment - but at the end of the day it is just what a person tend to believe for themselves. I have no dog in this fight. I will carry what I wish and don't much care what someone else carries as long as they do it legally. The only thing that matters is that you can hit what you need to when you need to with what you carry. Past the general concensus of the difference between rifle, handgun and shotgun injuries based on velocity projectiles. The ATLS (Advanced Trauma Life Support) test book lists as an afterthought in the appendices velocities of several calibers - but no where in the text does it ever in anyway make any comment on severity of wounds or outcomes based on caliber. Type of weapon there is some potentail variations (handgun rifle shotgun) but even then no desicions are made based on the weapon used only the injuries noted. The most recent Up to Date article and nearly every article I've ever read (I can't think of anything I've read offhand other than the ATLS text that mentions caliber) concentrates on evaluation strategites for specific organs that may have been injured and rates of surgical intervention and outcomes based on what was injured by the GSW. Even then the categories are broad - penetrating tramua of the thorax or abdomen, and specifically thorax injuries causing mediastinal or vascualr injuries in the chest. NOTHING about caliber.

Sorry, if you want "ammunition" to justify your caliber choice you'll need to look somewhere other than medicine. Now I have to go see pts - Sunday morning influx is beginning.

 

[MrWesson]

I consider .380 bare minimum and would have serious concerns carrying one. A good +p round is at or near the .38 special effectiveness but generally .380's have a small barrel which doesn't help.

I have thought about buying one for work for deep concealment(pocket carry) because I wear dress attire and its hard to hide anything.

That being said a P3at in your back pocket is better than your G19 at home.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

That being said a P3at in your back pocket is better than your G19 at home.

Tuck in your shirt, put a IWB holster for your G19 in the 4 - 5 o'clock position, put on a untucked, unbuttoned button shirt on and there you go. You've just concealed a near full size handgun. Its comfortable in hot weather too. I do this with my full size handguns.

 

[230therapy]

Nope...unless I had to.

Many people prioritize convenience over effectiveness and power. A friend of mine does that. I shot a drill with his Ruger LCP. The target and I were both moving left and right. Seven rounds goes very, very quickly. Getting tight shot placement is quite difficult when both targets are moving ("The bad guy gets to influence the outcome"). It's even more difficult to do when the gun is very small. All I am saying is that the shooter should not expect good groups on a moving target when all that shooter does is shoot at static paper targets at the range. If you cannot get good groups, then the hits will be less effective than they need to be to stop the attack as soon as possible.

 

[okc-zee]

I alternate carry between a J frame 357,sometimes a CM9,and an LCP380 depending on where I am and what I'm wearing...I realize this has to be one of the greatest debates of all time...I could be wrong,but this is just my .02.. When did human beings become an army of supermen impervious to everything smaller than a 45...I understand shot placement,and velocity and the like...People have been killed with a single shot from a 22 ...a great number of assassinations in history were done with 22's and 380's...I've shot my 380 thru a good size roast backed by a few full water jugs...I was more than impressed by the results..try it sometime and judge for yourself...I'll agree to the differences cited here as far as power compared to different calibers,and whatever anyone feels safe with,by all means that's what they should carry...aside from that, we're talking flesh and bone here...I'll say I sure as heck wouldn't want to be shot with anything,any size,any time...I definitely don't feel under gunned when carrying a 380...If I was a BG,and somebody started shooting at me with a 22,I'm sure as hell not gonna run after him...I'm not saying a 380 is what everyone should carry....All I'm saying is I don't worry when I'm carrying one..Again,right or wrong,smart or dumb,this is just my .02...

 

[RevDerb]

I do regularly - at least 50% of the time. I believe with today's modern ammo, the .380 is an acceptable SD round.

 

[LiveLife]

John_galt and to others, we won't settle the caliber effectiveness discussion on this thread.

Respectfully, I will admit that the "anecdotal" and "general consensus" I posted about caliber effectiveness maybe informal and don't represent a larger sampling often used for more serious scientific study, but it was not meant to be.

As you have posted on other threads (that are mostly closed for some reason ) why you may prefer to carry larger 9mm over the 380 when able, I also posted my "opinion" as to why I would not trust "my life" with a 380 for this thread.

My initial post to this thread was that it was better than nothing, but I would "prefer" to trust my life with a 9mm +P JHP and that is of my opinion, not based on scientific fact.

I apologize to anyone who may have taken my posts the wrong way. That is the reason why I posted actual velocity/energy ballistics data as more factual comparison one could make since there are too many variables that determine bullet effectiveness, such as shot placement.

We had another thread discussion asking hunters what real life outcome was of various bullets on actual animals. Their "general consensus" of near human sized targets (pig, deer, etc.) was similar to what I posted. But keep in mind that it is only an informal hunters' "general consensus".

Peace.

 

[Pyro]

I carry a .25 automatic as my primary so yes I would carry a .380 acp.

 

[kokapelli]

John_galt and to others, we won't settle the caliber effectiveness discussion on this thread.

Respectfully, I will admit that the "anecdotal" and "general consensus" I posted about caliber effectiveness maybe informal and don't represent a larger sampling often used for more serious scientific study, but it was not meant to be.

As you have posted on other threads (that are mostly closed for some reason ) why you may prefer to carry larger 9mm over the 380 when able, I also posted my "opinion" as to why I would not trust "my life" with a 380 for this thread.

My initial post to this thread was that it was better than nothing, but I would "prefer" to trust my life with a 9mm +P JHP and that is of my opinion, not based on scientific fact.

I apologize to anyone who may have taken my posts the wrong way. That is the reason why I posted actual velocity/energy ballistics data as more factual comparison one could make since there are too many variables that determine bullet effectiveness, such as shot placement.

We had another thread discussion asking hunters what real life outcome was of various bullets on actual animals. Their "general consensus" of near human sized targets (pig, deer, etc.) was similar to what I posted. But keep in mind that it is only an informal hunters' "general consensus".

Peace.

I thought energy transfer in handgun calibers was proven a non factor long ago, am I wrong?

 

[KodiakBeer]

I don't think it's arguable that heavier, faster bullets do more damage than lighter, slower bullets, all else being equal.

If you're carrying an old Stevens tip up single shot for defense, this should worry you.

If you're carrying something with multiple rounds, and you practice to put those multiple rounds on target, then you really don't have a problem.

Carry your big gun when climate and clothing allows and your smaller gun when it doesn't. Stop thinking in terms of "bang" and start thinking in terms of "bang, bang, bang, bang".

 

[rich642z]

With practice and aiming,any caliber of any type of round will work on the aggressor. I carry a NAA single action 1 an 1/8th inch 22 combo with a magnum cylinder in it all the time. Never had to use it,but it's loaded with the new Hornady Critical defense ammo. Testing the ammo it did well and expanded like it was suppose to in wet papaer soaked with oil and water.

 

[Nushif]

Tuck in your shirt, put a IWB holster for your G19 in the 4 - 5 o'clock position, put on a untucked, unbuttoned button shirt on and there you go.

Actually, that results in me looking like the only person in the state who tucks in their shirt like a dork with a twenty pound tumor on my right side.
I am sorry I have a v-shape and live in an area where what goes for "proper" east coast dressing means you probably will not get the job. Our work uniform in these parts is polos, hiking boots and either slacks or cargo shorts.
Your size does not fit me, sadly.

 

[LiveLife]

I can place rapid multiple shots with acceptable accuracy (around 4-6") at defensive range (7-15 yards) with G26/G27 but have hard time getting anywhere close with various pocket 380 pistols (believe me, I have tried about ten 380 pistols).

Hence more the reason why I would not "trust my life" with 380.

I also prefer to insert higher capacity spare magazines, just in case the first volley of bullets didn't end the threat/attack or there are other threats/attackers, but that's me and my opinion only.

Where I live, I must use the adage, "Bring enough gun". Once again, that's for me and my opinion for "my life".

 

[MrWesson]

Tuck in your shirt, put a IWB holster for your G19 in the 4 - 5 o'clock position, put on a untucked, unbuttoned button shirt on and there you go. You've just concealed a near full size handgun. Its comfortable in hot weather too. I do this with my full size handguns.

What about when you have to wear slacks/dress shirt/tie?

If carrying gets you fired at work would you bring a full size?

Little .380's aren't perfect but they serve a very important role.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Actually, that results in me looking like the only person in the state who tucks in their shirt like a dork with a twenty pound tumor on my right side.
I am sorry I have a v-shape and live in an area where what goes for "proper" east coast dressing means you probably will not get the job. Our work uniform in these parts is polos, hiking boots and either slacks or cargo shorts.
Your size does not fit me, sadly.

I'm 6'3 and only 160 lbs. My recommendation has a untucked button shirt over a tucked shirt with your gun IWB. You don't tuck anything over the gun itself. I always tuck in my shirt and hardly anyone, especially my age, tucks in their shirt but who would care anyway?

What about when you have to wear slacks/dress shirt/tie?

If carrying gets you fired at work would you bring a full size?

Little .380's aren't perfect but they serve a very important role.

For work I recommend a small gun but if you tuck in a button shirt, it tends to blouse out a bit and that easily hides a fullsize gun, only problem is that the clips for the holster can be seen and someone may wonder what those are.

I don't have anything against .380s, just that its best to carry a full size gun when possible, or at least something bigger.

 

[Nushif]

I'm 6'3 and only 160 lbs. My recommendation has a untucked button shirt over a tucked shirt with your gun IWB. You don't tuck anything over the gun itself. I always tuck in my shirt and hardly anyone, especially my age, tucks in their shirt but who would care anyway?

I'm 5'10" and 200 lbs. What works for me in reality is an OWB slide holster worn on the hips with my pants. I never tuck my t-shirt and a Dickies work shirt either buttoned or unbuttoned (but never tucked) covers a compact gun quite nicely.
[edit]
Also, I find an Officer sized 1911 in a pocket holster in the cargo pockets works, too, if they're not too loose, come to think about it.
[/edit]

What you're not getting here is that for some people ...obviously other than you IWB simply does not work. No matter how much you recommend it, no matter how much it "should" ...
Reality is some people can pull it off, others can't. And no matter who recommends it ... the IWB waistband is not for me. Neither in fashion, nor in comfort, nor in concealment.
I am really only trying to impress on you that repeating the same method of carry over and over is not going to make it work universally. I don't care that every gun writer loves it. I don't care that the market is inundated with holsters for it ... it simply does not work universally
You can recommend all you want, but that doesn't mean it's going to work.