Would you trust your life with a 380.

[Ben86]

When I introduce new shooters to defensive shooting, I have them do some physical workout to raise their heart rate up and shoot a fullsize target at 5 yards with their eyes closed.

With their eyes closed? That doesn't sound like something a new shooter should be doing.

 

[LiveLife]

I do that initially so they know where their "perceived" POA/POI is. Often, they end up shooting the bottom of the target or the floor/ground as they push in anticipation of recoil.

Once they realize what their body/brain will do naturally, we move on with stance/posture/grip/trigger contro/sights.

Once they are comfortable/proficient at 7-15 yards using dominant/weak hands, we come back to point shooting at 5 yards without the use of sights and move out to 7-15 yards.

I find that even for experienced/seasoned shooters, what their body/brain will do with their eyes closed even at close range is often surprising.

I consider short range point shooting another defensive tool that can help in close SD/HD situations.

 

[spcrobbins]

I didn't read the entire thread, but I bought a DB9 and it is very small. Much like a Ruger LCP in 380 only it's a 9mm! It is a handful to shoot, but so far it has shot everytime I have taken it out with no failures what so ever! Diamondback Firearms did good here.

 

[LiveLife]

The thread discussion is not on the reliability of the 380 pistols but the OP's concern whether the 380 Mustang pistol he is considering in reference to 9mm in terms of effectiveness enough to "trust your life" with.

So, essentially the question would be would one choose 380Auto vs 9mm to "trust their life" with?

 

[spcrobbins]

So, my response would be no. That is why I bought the DB9.

 

[ChCx2744]

KodiakBeer said:

Why? A 9mm out of a 3 inch barrel has less velocity than the hotter .380's.

You cannot be any more wrong. There is no .380 load on this planet that is going to be as hot, powerful or safe enough to carry (In comparison to what you said, if the load is shot out of guns with the same length barrels) as the 9mm carry load I have in my 9's. If you can find factory loaded .380 ammo that can exceed the power, velocity, penetration capabilities or jacket to core cohesion as well as the 127gr Winchester Ranger T-Series +P+ JHPs, 124gr Federal HST +P JHPs or 124gr Speer Gold Dot +P JHPs, then you can present an argument. Until then, sit down and keep your comments directed towards the subject at hand, not individuals.

 

[kokapelli]

I have a PM9 and a number of small pocket sized 380 pistols. Even though it a really good pistol I almost never carry the PM9 because it's just a little to big for my pockets.

I carry a P238 that fits nicely in my pocket, is very soft shooting for so small a pistol, is completely reliable with every type of ammo I have used in it, I am very accurate with it at seven yards and I can empty a magazine extremely fast because of the very soft recoil.

 

[DAP90]

I didn't read the entire thread, but I bought a DB9 and it is very small. Much like a Ruger LCP in 380 only it's a 9mm! It is a handful to shoot, but so far it has shot everytime I have taken it out with no failures what so ever! Diamondback Firearms did good here.

Add to this reality short barreled/lighter/snappy 380 pistols and you complicate the situation.

Then why is it every time somebody mentions how small 380’s are somebody else mentions an equally small 9mm; which will be even snappier? My BG380 isn’t a handful to shoot. More powerful misses aren’t superior.

The rest of the self defense challenges you mentioned are not exclusive to 380’s; they’re faced by everyone regardless of caliber.

 

[LiveLife]

Add to this reality short barreled/lighter/snappy 380 pistols and you complicate the situation.

Then why is it every time somebody mentions how small 380’s are somebody else mentions an equally small 9mm; which will be even snappier? My BG380 isn’t a handful to shoot. More powerful misses aren’t superior.

My apologies, I should have clarified. I was thinking about a recent comparison shooting I did with Keltec P-3AT and Glock 26 (Keltec P-3AT belonged to a Sheriff's Deputy who accompanied his cousin who is my coworker).

With same brand factory JHP rounds, P-3AT snapped in recoil to the point where accurate controlled rapid follow up shots by me and SD were difficult. On the other hand, SD and I could empty the entire magazine at the same POA without much difficulty.

Now, you may say that we were more proficient with G26 and that would be an unfair comparison. True. At the same outing, 5'6" female coworker and her mom who never shot either of the pistol before had the same outcome.

They even commented, "Oh, how cute!" until the first shot and their comment changed to "Wow! Why does this kick so much?" As to G26, they hit where they aimed and rapid multiple shots were better controlled (They were soon chasing soda cans all over the place). They were curious why a larger/bigger gun was easier to shoot.

 

[Ben86]

I do that initially so they know where their "perceived" POA/POI is. Often, they end up shooting the bottom of the target or the floor/ground as they push in anticipation of recoil.

I do see the purpose behind it, but couldn't that be accomplished by them simply closing their eyes, extending toward the target, then opening their eyes and observing where the sights lined up?

I know I would have been so nervous to do something like that when I started shooting that it probably would have made me flinch or otherwise screw up my shot.

 

[orionengnr]

Would I?

Yes, if it was the choice between a .380 and a pointy stick.
I own a .380 and have carried it a time or two. I also own a 9mm, and carried it every day for 3 1/2 years.

Do I?
No. I carry a 1911 in .45 acp every day. Not because it is easy, but because it is what I shoot best.

However, I'm not getting any younger, and I have not sold the .380 or the 9mm, which tells me that I may carry each sometime in the future.

 

[spcrobbins]

You guys need to check out the DB9, it's small. Real small! Should rank right in there with the size of gun you 380 pocket pistol guys are after.....but it's a 9! Did I mention it's a 9?

 

[LiveLife]

I do see the purpose behind it, but couldn't that be accomplished by them simply closing their eyes, extending toward the target, then opening their eyes and observing where the sights lined up?

I do that too but have them fire the first round with their eyes closed to show where their perceived POA and the actual sight alignment and POI are.

Seeing where the sights point to is one thing (they come fairly close to perceived POA) but most will push down just before/as they are pulling the trigger (this is where most of the muzzle movement come from) and actual POI ends up way off (usually below) the intended POA/sight alignment.

This initial demonstration paints a realistic picture of what their body/brain will do naturally and helps the shooter get over "What will I do for real?" question. Once we work on stance/posture/grip/trigger finger/trigger control/sight picture to proficiency at 7-15 yards, we repeat the same closed eye exercise at 5 yards to verify that now closed eye perceived POA can be the same as actual POI. This exercise is fundamental to point shooting we do next. Final point shooting test is shooting 6 paper plate sized targets placed at 7 yards and called out (top right, bottom left, etc.) with the shooter's eyes blindfolded. Point shooting can be done to 4-6" accuracy at 7 yards with a quick draw at called out targets.

 

[DAP90]

Now, you may say that we were more proficient with G26 and that would be an unfair comparison.

Actually, I would say it’s an unfair comparison because the G26 is much larger and heavier than the P-3AT. I would not consider the G26 a pocket gun.

P-3AT: Weight 8.3oz Height 3.576” Width .798” Length 5.14”
G26: Weight 19.75oz Height 4.17” Width 1.18” Length 6.29”

I think we would all agree that, generally speaking, a larger heavier gun is easier to shoot and that a more powerful round will be a better stopper.

Sometimes though, a smaller handgun package is just the thing to have. In those cases a 380 can be argued as preferable to a 9mm because in a pocket size package a 380 is easier to shoot than a 9mm in an equivalent size package. This is not a hard and fast rule, but it is a reasonable position to take. Only hits count.

We can argue about the ability to always carry a larger handgun. I’ll just say there are many times when I am either unable or unwilling to do so. In those cases I feel I am better off with a pocket 380 than a pocket 9mm for the reasons I gave above.

 

[kokapelli]

You guys need to check out the DB9, it's small. Real small! Should rank right in there with the size of gun you 380 pocket pistol guys are after.....but it's a 9! Did I mention it's a 9?

No thanks!
I purchased a DB380 that went back twice and was still totally unreliable.

 

[HGUNHNTR]

I do, an LCP. Not my favorite, but the only one I can get myself to
consistently carry.

 

[Lateck]

There are a number of times I DO trust the .380.
It all depends on what I'm wearing or where I'm at.

Would I prefer a larger caliber..... Yes.

But it is not alway best to be carrying my Mossberg 590 with 9 rounds of slugs & 00 buck

I carry what I can and I trust my life to it... Even not being armed..

By the way there has been a lot of good responses to this post

Lateck,

 

[spcrobbins]

No thanks!
I purchased a DB380 that went back twice and was still totally unreliable.

Sorry you had so much trouble with your DB380, so far my DB9 has ran flawlessly. It is a handful and I wouldn't recommend it to someone that can't handle the recoil, but in that case, I wouldn't recommend a 380 in the same size either. My wife carries a Walther PPS which is as small of a 9mm she can handle, but I will say the limbsaver grips helped her tremendously. You might try some on the pocket pistol if recoil is an issue.

 

[nathan]

I carry my IJ 18 in 9mm Makarov 70 percent of the time and i dont feel undergunned. Plus a magful in my pocket. I shoot quite well with it.

Of course , i have my G 23 that i carry if im with the whole family. An extra mag if we go out of town .

Either way, practice is key to hit your target. A .22 in the right hands is as deadly as a .45 ACP.

 

[kokapelli]

Sorry you had so much trouble with your DB380, so far my DB9 has ran flawlessly. It is a handful and I wouldn't recommend it to someone that can't handle the recoil, but in that case, I wouldn't recommend a 380 in the same size either. My wife carries a Walther PPS which is as small of a 9mm she can handle, but I will say the limbsaver grips helped her tremendously. You might try some on the pocket pistol if recoil is an issue.

I just checked Diamondback Talk and from what I read there they are still having too many problems for me to consider a DB9.

That's the problem with getting burned once
http://www.diamondbacktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1029

 

[spcrobbins]

I just checked Diamondback Talk and from what I read there they are still having too many problems for me to consider a DB9.

That's the problem with getting burned once
http://www.diamondbacktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1029

don't know what to say. Maybe I was the only lucky customer that got the good one.

 

[Maple_City_Woodsman]

Yes, it certainly IS possible for a 380 to match a 9mm in certain barrel lengths:
* In short barrels, only 'X' amount of powder can be burned
* The heavier (and thus longer) 9mm bullets take up more case capacity.

Thus the shorter that barrel gets, the less advantage the 9mm has over the 380 - in say, a 3" tube, you are talking about LESS than 100fps difference between many standard pressure 100gr 380 loads, and standard pressure 115gr 9mm loads. This equates to something like 210 ftlbs for the 380 and 280ftlbs for the 9mm. HARDLY an earth shaking advantage.

When you compare the more powerful +P 380 loads to a standard 9mm, the numbers are essentially the same, with some real world weapons generating 260ftlbs. At that point splitting hairs is academic, as the ballistics are so close the standard 9mm that everyone seems to be hung up on.

 

[kokapelli]

don't know what to say. Maybe I was the only lucky customer that got the good one.

There are others that have had good experiences but if you read the problem threads on the DB9 it's enlightening to see how many people respond with information on their own pistol returns which makes me think there are still many problems.

I like the design of the Diamondback and hope that someday have high rates of reliability.

 

[spcrobbins]

There are others that have had good experiences but if you read the problem threads on the DB9 it's enlightening to see how many people respond with information on their own pistol returns which makes me think there are still many problems.

I like the design of the Diamondback and hope that someday have high rates of reliability.

I did read all of the reviews on the gun prior to purchasing, and I feel that many people that have problems are the people we hear the most from as opposed to the satisfied customers which is why I am posting so much on here. It's a good gun if you can handle the recoil, want a pocket 9mm because you don't like the 380.

 

[heeler]

Yes I would trust my life with a .380.
I carry one quite frequently.
I also carry a PM9 with 147 gr Winchester Ranger Hollow Points at other times.
A poster commented earlier about the weight of the Glock 26 vs the Kel-Tec P3AT.
Well I have weighed my PM9 fully loaded and it came in at 20 ounces.
My LCP and Diamondback 380 both fully loaded came in at exactly 12 ounces.
That eight ounces is quite a bit of difference in pocket carry mode,which is my preffered way of carry.
I recently on an over time pay check whim purchased a little Kel-Tec P32 that I shoot much better than the two .380's and not much better than my PM9.
I would not carry something like that in some war zone but would not hesitate to carry it in lieu of one of the .380's either as easy as it is to shoot and very rapidly too without any issues of staying on target.
And fwiw it holds one extra round.