Anyone else begrudgingly packing a 9mm

JR24 said:

Right, which is why I'm just as fine with 9mm as any other service caliber.

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Yep, if I'm going to put a lot of thought into something, it's going to be my mindset, the laws, the best tactics for the situation and the condition of my skillset.

Caliber? Pick something with a nice sounding number, or a pretty color on the packaging. Makes as much sense as some other things people use to give themselves comfort in their choices.

Shoot better and smarter, not just to increase the number of rounds flying downrange. Each one is going to hit something, and what it/they hit that isn't the intended threat may cause some significant problems.

brutus51 said:

the bigger hole often incapacitates quicker.

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References?

My two favorite 9mm handguns:


(Yeah, I have a 9mm cylinder for the Blackhawk.)

I guess you can say I begrudgingly carry a 9mm simply because I have an absolute fascination for revolvers but for me any of the revolvers that can carry as well as my Hellcat, P938 or Kahr CM9 fall short in the accuracy, capacity and recoil management department. I simply can’t stand J Frame sized revolvers.

brutus51 said:

Which would you prefer:
Alaskan professional hunters or African ones?

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The one containing data relevant to your original post.
Yes, we're aware of how more devasting a .375 H&H is than 9mm. Can you keep the discussion relevant?

Kleanbore said:

Not at all applicable to an immediate stop.

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Yeah, but still, it produced a chuckle.

Also, some of either did/do often have a vested interest in the fastest stop possible.

brutus51 said:

Sorry didn't mean to get off topic, anyway I would like to find a nice IWB leather holster for my Sig XL any suggestions?
All I can seem to find is Kydex.

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I like Milt Sparks…see if they have what you want…. https://www.miltsparks.com/products-inside.php

My Marine Corps days are long-long ago, nor am I law enforce just your average citizen. My EDC is a S&W Shield 9X19mm 8+1 capacity. I practice a life style of avoidance of stupid people, places and things. If someone wants utilize a different caliber/cartridge that's up to them. Life is full of choices. Except for my previously mentioned Marine Days I've not been involved in any self-defensive shooting incidents.

I like DeSantis leather holsters a lot and they have several IWB models to choose from for the SIG P365

First firearm was my P89DC back in 1991 after a particularly gruesome home invasion made the news. Tried 45acp and 40s&w since, sold off both after concluding I'm just better with 9mm. Easier to keep on target for follow up shots and more of it. So no, I don't begrudge 9mm, I prefer it.

We need Dr Rick, "It's OK to like 9mm!"

My only defensive pistol I had for 35 years was a Colt Commander 45. Now I'm old and retired I find it a bit heavy to lug around,so I went down the 9mm compact road. I use a LC9s and a recently bought Glock 43x for carry. I like both pistols for weight and concealment and think 9mm HP is up to the task,but in a home defense situation,I think I would rather have the Commander in my hand.

Heat has never played a role in my decision of which gun to carry. It gets rather hot where I live, but it has never gotten too hot for specific calibers. That said, I very regularly carry my duty gun, a Glock G45, off duty...even when it's up in the nineties outside.

38sp wadcutters out of a j frame with thicker pachmayr grips is my centerfire protection choice. reliable, softer-shooting, reasonably accurate, 5 rounds is enough for my humble needs.

i was on active duty long enough ago to miss the 9mm; we hurriedly fam-fired clapped-out m1911 45acp range-beater pistols. that lousy experience, plus some excellent government civilian training on s&w m10 4” 38sp service revolvers later, made me a confirmed wheel gun guy.

it’s odd how some younger folks have never even handled a revolver, let alone never halfway decently trained on one; sad actually.

No "begrudging" from me against carrying a 9mm. I know I definitely have more guns for that cartridge than any other. It's easy to shoot, packs a bit of a punch (especially with some hotter JHPs), there are lots of different guns to choose from, and factory ammo is still relatively inexpensive.

What's not to like?

Some of my favorites:

JR24 said:

...At least in terms of defensive shootings the data seems to be inconclusive.

Do bigger hole mean quicker bleed out? Sure, that makes sense. But does that make any difference in the few seconds a defensive encounter are typically decided in? Again, data says inconclusive.

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Well sure, but is there evidence from defensive shootings that the quicker splits that a less powerful round allows makes a difference?

I mean we only have the evidence of the event. If you look at a defensive shooting where the victim shot his attacker twice, but was killed anyhow, you can't definitively say "if he'd had a .45 or even a .40S&W those shots would have stopped the attack", or to flip it, "if he hadn't been shooting a .45, he could have gotten off a third shot which would have stopped the attack". We're looking at data and predicting results. All we know is that in equivalent platforms a 9mm will allow quicker recovery for faster accurate shooting than a .45. All we know is that a bigger heavier projectile has a larger surface area and will tend to better penetrate. You can't look at an event and say that had the shooter used: X, they would have lived/died.

The best self defense handgun may already exist, and no matter how hard you think about it, and how thoroughly you train, you might choose to carry something else when confronted with a threat on your life. But what you choose to carry can be sufficient, to neutralize the threat, if you're competent with it.

[QUOTE="jstert, post: 12004449, member: 205171"
it’s odd how some younger folks have never even handled a revolver, let alone never halfway decently trained on one; sad actually.[/QUOTE]

Just look at them as handgun losers.

Pudge said:

Well sure, but is there evidence from defensive shootings that the quicker splits that a less powerful round allows makes a difference?

I mean we only have the evidence of the event. If you look at a defensive shooting where the victim shot his attacker twice, but was killed anyhow, you can't definitively say "if he'd had a .45 or even a .40S&W those shots would have stopped the attack", or to flip it, "if he hadn't been shooting a .45, he could have gotten off a third shot which would have stopped the attack". We're looking at data and predicting results. All we know is that in equivalent platforms a 9mm will allow quicker recovery for faster accurate shooting than a .45. All we know is that a bigger heavier projectile has a larger surface area and will tend to better penetrate. You can't look at an event and say that had the shooter used: X, they would have lived/died.

The best self defense handgun may already exist, and no matter how hard you think about it, and how thoroughly you train, you might choose to carry something else when confronted with a threat on your life. But what you choose to carry can be sufficient, to neutralize the threat, if you're competent with it.

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One of thing I know is given a similar or the same platform, the faster recovery time and lower recoil makes shooting fast and accurate easier with a 9mm or to a degree .40, especially when moving and transitioning targets. I can keep a .45 pretty close if I really work at it, but it requires a lot more focus and concentration.

So, all else being close in effectiveness, easier is probably better in a chaotic defensive situation.

But you are right, we don't know, and probably never will.

I'm competent with any of the major ones and don't worry about it other than internet speculation.

Kleanbore said:

Yes, we do know that.
We know that forensic science tells us that that does not have a material impact.

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How would forensic science tell us that an individual who survived a 9mm would or wouldn't have survived if the bullet had had a larger diameter or created a deeper wound, or had been less effected by the jacket/bone/lighter it encountered?