Glock design vs the 1911

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Three types of pistols:
1911's
Glocks
Other :neener:

I like Glocks and 1911's.
Currently carrying a Glock (20SF/22/23/32/35/41) but I've carried 1911's quite a bit in the past.
Every one of those Glocks holds more than 10 rounds; I would not carry any of them with a stupid arbitrary 10 round mag.
If I am ever under a 10 round limit, I'll go back to carrying a 1911.
 
Frank Ettin said:
Without some objective, measurable standard against which to measure the design, "better" winds up meaning "what I like better" or "what I, personally, think is more important/more desirable/prettier." And so you're right back at personal preference.
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I understand the point he's trying to make, I think.

The 1911 is a more complex design. It has more parts which means it's probably more labor-intensive to build and more difficult to maintain.

Since it is more labor-intensive to build or to manufacture and because it requires more steel which is more expensive than polymer it's going to cost more to make and that cost is going to be passed on to the end consumer.

Those are objective facts that have nothing to do with which you prefer.
 
The Glock and the 1911 share one aspect that most pistols don’t...ease of mostly tool free detail stripping.
I recall my father, a WWII vet, had a 1911 he brought home from the war. There was an issue with the hammer spring strut, and I watched as he sat at the dining room table and took it down to its smallest part. Probably the first time since the war, and this was in the 1970’s. No problem, and all he used was a screwdriver for the grips.
I thought about that as I took apart my G17 fully, which was only slightly easier than the 1911, and only required a punch (could have used a pen refill in a pinch.
 
Hangingrock said:
Handguns are tools. Users have preferences as to which tool they employ. The subject boarders on being nettlesome.
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It is always the same. Everything including threads just travel around in a circle like a Merry go round. This same thread will surface again in about a month. Time for Revolver vs Semi war. Been at least a few weeks since one of those.
 
Assuming that both guns were more or less cutting edge when they were developed (which is probably true of the 1911 but less true of the Glock) then with the designer of the newer gun being able able to take advantage of decades of advancements in technology and design that just weren't available at the time the older gun was designed, it would be sad if he didn't.
 
Trunk Monkey said:
Frank Ettin said:
Without some objective, measurable standard against which to measure the design, "better" winds up meaning "what I like better" or "what I, personally, think is more important/more desirable/prettier." And so you're right back at personal preference.
Click to expand...
I understand the point he's trying to make, I think.

The 1911 is a more complex design. It has more parts which means it's probably more labor-intensive to build and more difficult to maintain.

Since it is more labor-intensive to build or to manufacture and because it requires more steel which is more expensive than polymer it's going to cost more to make and that cost is going to be passed on to the end consumer.

Those are objective facts that have nothing to do with which you prefer.
Click to expand...

No that's not my point at all. "Better" doesn't mean anything beyond personal preference unless there is a defined, objective benchmark accepted or agreed to as defining "better" in some context.

To use your specified attributes, "more complex design", "more labor intensive to build" could, in theory, be defined as a benchmark for "better" by folks who like fine machinery, but that's not necessarily a foregone conclusion; and many would disagree. Although those attributes themselves are objective, whether they are better or worse becomes something of a value judgment.

On the other hand, if, for example, the Marines want a new, standard sidearm, they will decide what characteristics best suit a handgun for the particular role a sidearm has in the greater scheme of things. That will be the basis for the development of an excruciatingly detailed list of specifications and performance criteria. Competing pistols can be tested against that list of specifications and performance criteria, and those that better match the benchmark can be said, objectively, to be better.
 
I own both and like them. Now with that said, I will choose a 1911 due to my own personal experience with them in a combat environment. I took the 1911A1 made back in the 1940's over a new Beretta M9 when I was in the sandbox back in 1990-91 during Desert Shield/Storm.

Now as far as daily carry and range use, both see equal use.

PS.... I'm old fashioned and loved the 1911A1, M3A1 sub machine gun, and the M60 machine gun. They all served me faithfully when needed.
 
Frank Ettin said:
Then why did you quote me?
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Because I was responding to you.

Maybe the Glock isn't a "better" design then the 1911 but I think it's a more efficient one.

And I'm basing that opinion on my manufacturing background (which wasn't extensive). I think the Glock can be made in fewer steps with less skilled labor.

A bunch of button pushers could make a Glock.
 
12Bravo20 said:
I own both and like them. Now with that said, I will choose a 1911 due to my own personal experience with them in a combat environment. I took the 1911A1 made back in the 1940's over a new Beretta M9 when I was in the sandbox back in 1990-91 during Desert Shield/Storm.

Now as far as daily carry and range use, both see equal use.

PS.... I'm old fashioned and loved the 1911A1, M3A1 sub machine gun, and the M60 machine gun. They all served me faithfully when needed.
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There was a machinist/welder in my battalion who used to fabricate spare parts for our M3s. He said he could probably make one from scratch for about 15 bucks (1988).
 
A contributing reason to the popularity of the 1911 series semiautomatic pistol is Jeff Cooper's "Modern Technique" system of methodology that came about in the late nineteen fifties about 1958 or so. He was a prolific writer and retired USMC Lieutenant Colonel. His influence in pistol craft theory thus employment should not be under estimated.
 
Hangingrock said:
A contributing reason to the popularity of the 1911 series semiautomatic pistol is Jeff Cooper's "Modern Technique" system of methodology that came about in the late nineteen fifties about 1958 or so. He was a prolific writer and retired USMC Lieutenant Colonel. His influence in pistol craft theory thus employment should not be under estimated.
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Not to mention that a few million of us has a rich uncle who taught us to use one with free ammo to go with it.
 
Kimber 1911’s don’t exactly have a stellar reputation when it comes to reliability. Maybe the OP should try a different brand. They hold their value better anyway. The brand new truck I want has a lot more features than my old 69K series Chevy also but I prefer it over a new one.
 
I have noticed, in these sorts of threads, that no one seems to ever consider all of the other pistol designs a out there.
Tokarev? Walther P-38? Lahti?
Bulletski said:
I especially hate the hinge pin that holds the barrel in place.
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You would really "hate" the 1910 Commercial, then [:)] It has two links, one forward, one aft.

The debate on the barrel link could be more heated if you made it between the 1911 pivoting and the GP-35 angled.
And, the number of examples where JMB's GP-35 sliding lock is used is almost universal. In fact, Gaston's marvel used that Browning-style angled wedge, which was near a half-century old in 1982.

Bulletski said:
Oh absolutely. If you want a very accurate .45, the 1911 is the only way to go
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Dunno, my SIG P220 is no slouch.
 
Bulletski said:
I have to say at the outset AND the reason for this post is that I'm sick & tired of the comparisons between the Glock & 1911s.

I have a Kimber 1911 ( also used to have a Colt Gold Cup years ago ) and a G-19.
I have to say that I think the 1911 is not particularly well designed. I used to be in tool & die and had to deal a lot with mechanical designs and have had PLENTY of experience and frustration with bad mechanical design.
I like my Kimber but think that there is way too much praise given to the 1911.
I especially hate the hinge pin that holds the barrel in place. What a BS design that is.
The Glocks have a much better way of doing it. Also, as far as maintenance, when you take the slide off a Glock, all the "guts" are right there and easy to access. Where as with the 1911, they're hidden at the rear of the gun and MUCH more trouble to access.
And when taking the 1911 apart to clean it, I really love having to deal with the recoil spring; always great fun.
To be sure, there are some things about Glock I don't like BUT I have to give credit where it's due, they just work great and are easy to take care of. What else is there to be concerned with?
Also, cleaning a Glock is super easy.
I know what some of you are going to say: the 1911 has been around for over a century and has served well. True, but if we're talking the way it's designed, the Glock wins hands down.
I know to say such about a 1911 is gun heresy, but it's my opinion based on dealing with both.
Will be interesting to see how much flack I get from this. LOL
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I agree with you.

And now the only 1911 that I own is a 'high end' Kimber .Got rid of the past half dozen Colts.
I own 3 more semi auto .45 ACP's.

2 Glock 30's

1 S&W shield.

The only one that is a safe queen due to trust etc = the Kimber.
 
Better is better for you. I have 2 1911s and no Glocks. The one Glock I did own (G42) was bought, test fired, and sold in a week. I shot Glocks as an instructor and amateur competition shooter on a university shooting team. Contrary to popular belief, Glocks CAN malfunction. They are not and far from infallible. Because of the my Glock competition time, I have more rounds through a Glock than anything else (minus military arms). Unless I am given or have to carry a duty Glock, I will not buy one. Some years back I worked a corporate security job where my issued firearm was a Smith and Wesson 64-5 in 38 Special. The "special assignment" guards were issued Glock 19s. I tried like all hell to get one of those special details as I am more comfortable carrying a semi auto over a revolver anyday, even if it is a Glock.

On the other hand, I will buy or build at least two more 1911s before I consider myself done with what I want out of those.
 
I agree with others. There is just too much time between the two to make an apples to apples comparison.

I shoot a 1911 better than a Glock. If forced to choose, I would take a Glock 17 out of the box untested and greased up over a 1911 if my life was on the line.

I think the 1911 was a massive leap forward and, in fact, underappreciated by non gun folks as to how much was built off of the JMB's design that we see today.

I find the 1911 to be a living fossil. I dont mean that in a bad way. Its a relic of its time that is too well suited, effected, and frankly, stubborn to die despite the low capacity and more complicated machining when compared to a Glock.

A Glock 9mm is such a simple and effective firearm. Easy to produce as well as cheap and dead up reliable. However, the 1911 is no slouch. It's "old man strong". An unexplainable might that comes with age and a hard knock life. A Glock is a fine gun. I would not feel ill equipped to have one at my side at a bad time. I just think that it is impossible to really compare the two when it comes to design. My wife's 2016 Honda Accord is more technologically advanced and built better than a 1957 Chevy, but there is no denying which is more iconic.
 
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