dogtown tom
Member
Really?
I don't know of a single brick and mortar gun store in all of Dallas/Ft Worth that DOESN'T install sights. Usually they do it free if you buy the sights from them.
If you could change one thing about handgun sales what would it be?
- Thread starter Brubz
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I don't know of a single brick and mortar gun store in all of Dallas/Ft Worth that DOESN'T install sights. Usually they do it free if you buy the sights from them.
dogtown tom
Member
You can do that now. I transfer 200 guns a month that were bought out of state by Texans.
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Brubz
Member
I see your point about the extra mags still at the very least it would be nice if the gun manufacturers would stock their own magazines!
With both my Kimber micro 9 and my Walther P22 I went directly to the manufacturer website and they were both out of stock!
So maybe I should change my wish to don't Supply it with a gun but make it available!
JR24
Member
I see your point about the extra mags still at the very least it would be nice if the gun manufacturers would stock their own magazines!
With both my Kimber micro 9 and my Walther P22 I went directly to the manufacturer website and they were both out of stock!
So maybe I should change my wish to don't Supply it with a gun but make it available!
Speaking of Kimber, it'd be nice if a gun came with mags that actually worked.
I've bought 3 Kimbers and two of them came with non functional mags. I wonder how much of the Kimber hate comes from hot garbage Kimber mags.
Give them quality mags and all three ran fine.
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Brubz
Member
The Springs in the Kimber mags are super stiff in my Kimber micro 9 mag I can't load the seventh bullet in by hand at all have to use the uplula
JR24
Member
Both of the issues I had were out of spec followers, best I can tell.
You either aren't getting my point or the point of the OP, as to what would I change about purchasing handguns. There are a crapload of models, options, etc., from most gunmakers. You can’t find them at your local gun store, you have to order them and wait until he’ll freezes over before getting it. Or buy the model you don’t want and then spend a ton of money modding it to what you want which is maybe one feature away from an existing model.
Plus, look at the companies you quoted. See any pattern there? All 1911s. There is ONE Beretta 92 custom maker I know of. There are a couple of BHP custom makers. One CZ custom shop, outside of the in factory shop. Walther, none that I know of. Only specific Rugers, like the Mark series and some of their revolvers.
Nope, I want to walk into an “Authorized Dealer” look at a demo pistol and run down the options offered by the factory and dealers, pick out what I want, and send in the order via computer. It would then go into the queue, and be built / modified to the order.
Oh, and even before the current hysteria, guns had a hell of a lot more than a 5% margin.
RETG
Member
I see your point about the extra mags still at the very least it would be nice if the gun manufacturers would stock their own magazines!
With both my Kimber micro 9 and my Walther P22 I went directly to the manufacturer website and they were both out of stock!
So maybe I should change my wish to don't Supply it with a gun but make it available!
I can see your point. I have never had a problem obtaining mags for any of my privately owned weapons. Sometimes purchasing reliable non-OEM mags. But even a manufacture could run out at times if there is a surge for their mags.
Zaydok Allen
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The prices.
dogtown tom
Member
I fully understand the point of the OP. What YOU don't understand is reality. The reality is few if any gun retailers will have the hundreds of thousands of $$$$$ to invest in every model/color/option for a particular brand. It's just not financially viable. You think because SIG/Beretta/etc show a particular caliber, finish, sight or grip on their website.......that they actually manufacture that model as shown? Well, they don't. Heck, even the guns on display at SHOT are merely to gauge interest and many are never actually produced.
So? There are literally hundreds of companies that will customize any gun you want.......and not just 1911's (that's what "and a host of others await" means.
)There's your problem.....that YOU know of.
Think why that might be. You complain about my only mentioning "All 1911s", ignoring a host of others............look at who you mention: BHP.......a gun that's been out of production for over three years.
You didn't mention Sig, or Glock..........numerous shops offer services.
Again, you can do that now. And again, you'll pay through the nose because first, manufacturers hate dozens of SKU's, distributors hate dozens of SKU's, and dealers can only stock so many. If what you want is for example the CZ factory or Beretta in Italy to make you a custom gun.............get real. They aren't going to. Never. Put yourself in their shoes.....why would they completely change their production line to offer an unlimited number of options for relatively little financial gain. The manpower and time involved is EXACTLY the reason why S&W, Colt, CZ, etc have "Custom Shops". You want something with special sauce...........PAY EXTRA.
Really? How long you been a gun dealer? How many distributors do you have access to? Tell me the wholesale cost of a Glock 17, a Benelli M4, a Sig P320. Tell us about why MAP exists.
I ask because "even before the current hysteria, guns had a hell of a lot more than 5% margin" is ignorant.
Hangingrock
Member
1942bull
Member
Of course one thing I would change is the price. The other. Thing is to have more pistols have an aluminum frame option. I wish my PPS M2 had a metal frame. I have a Remington RM380 with AL frame, and a Ruger LCPII with plastic frame. The RM380 is much easier on the hands than the LCP2.
Mike OTDP
Member
I'd like to see a "premium version" offered for a lot of the guns...there's a tendency to sell "fixer-uppers" and assume that the buyer will toss half the parts and replace them to get the gun going.
Those would be called the Performance Center or Custom Shop guns
Seriously, my understanding is that manufacturers did their research and found that most of their buyers were completely satisfied with a lesser offering if the companies held the prices at the current levels. It's much like people who choose to shop at WalMart...which sets the current acceptable standard of quality/choice
Ok dogtown tom, let's break down what I actually said. Gun retailers don't need every variation of every gun, just a few models and a computer or physical catalog (if they are old school) listing the options, like every car dealer on the planet does. You go in, look at the vehicle of your choice, explore the options on the computer, enter your options of choice, and put down a deposit, and pay the balance when the vehicle is delivered. Unless you get really out there, like replacing the engine, tranny, suspension, interior, paint, with something the manufacturer does not offer, you don't need to send your car to some custom shop to double the price. I just want the same level of ordering with handguns, not what some wholesaler got and then doled out to their retailers, but maybe some of the models I can actually see as being currently offered for sale by the manufacturer, but never show up in local shops, because they get what the bonehead wholesalers send them.
Bening a former gearhead, I WANT the same level of factory order customization as I can get from Ford, Chevy, Fiat (formerly Mopar), Acura, Audi, BMW, Nissan, Honda, Toyota, etc. None of those companies make you take your brand new car to a customization shop to get stock options they offer.
And yeah, I understand the cool stuff shown at SHOT Show is vapor ware, like the cool concept cars you see at the Detroit Auto Show are vapor ware. But if I go into a dealership or online to an automobile manufacturer and look through the available options, I can order a vehicle within those options, put down a deposit, it goes into a queue, and I get it a certain number of weeks later, delivered to my local dealership. Considering how much more complicated a modern car is compared to a modern handgun, if they can do it, so can handgun manufacturers.
Once upon a time I did have access to the wholesale price catalog of an FFL, and the buyer's club we belonged to had an arrangement with said FFL to sell to us at a nominal markup. He still made money, and I know the normal markup was significantly more than 5%. But if that is unsatisfactory, let's just look at the price of AR15s when the market for them had absolutely tanked pre-Covid, pre-mostly peaceful protests, pre-Sleepy Joe. You could pick up a decent one for $400 or so. Businesses don't operate at a loss, so that is probably the bottom of what they actually cost retail, no markups. Right now, those same AR15s, if you can find them, are easily going for $800 or a lot more. Prior to the AR15 market tanking, those were going for $600 or more.
But the OP's question was what was the ONE thing about handgun sales I would change. My answer was to be able to actually order the guns the manufacturers advertise that they allegedly make, from the manufacturer, not some questionable seller on gun broker.
Bening a former gearhead, I WANT the same level of factory order customization as I can get from Ford, Chevy, Fiat (formerly Mopar), Acura, Audi, BMW, Nissan, Honda, Toyota, etc. None of those companies make you take your brand new car to a customization shop to get stock options they offer.
And yeah, I understand the cool stuff shown at SHOT Show is vapor ware, like the cool concept cars you see at the Detroit Auto Show are vapor ware. But if I go into a dealership or online to an automobile manufacturer and look through the available options, I can order a vehicle within those options, put down a deposit, it goes into a queue, and I get it a certain number of weeks later, delivered to my local dealership. Considering how much more complicated a modern car is compared to a modern handgun, if they can do it, so can handgun manufacturers.
Once upon a time I did have access to the wholesale price catalog of an FFL, and the buyer's club we belonged to had an arrangement with said FFL to sell to us at a nominal markup. He still made money, and I know the normal markup was significantly more than 5%. But if that is unsatisfactory, let's just look at the price of AR15s when the market for them had absolutely tanked pre-Covid, pre-mostly peaceful protests, pre-Sleepy Joe. You could pick up a decent one for $400 or so. Businesses don't operate at a loss, so that is probably the bottom of what they actually cost retail, no markups. Right now, those same AR15s, if you can find them, are easily going for $800 or a lot more. Prior to the AR15 market tanking, those were going for $600 or more.
But the OP's question was what was the ONE thing about handgun sales I would change. My answer was to be able to actually order the guns the manufacturers advertise that they allegedly make, from the manufacturer, not some questionable seller on gun broker.
Barbaroja
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I feel like you missed the part where this thread was about a hypothetical situation,what YOU would want to change. This is a fantasy. It’s like someone telling you they had a dream where they could fly and you point out all the reasons that person can’t ACTUALLY fly.I fully understand the point of the OP. What YOU don't understand is reality. The reality is few if any gun retailers will have the hundreds of thousands of $$$$$ to invest in every model/color/option for a particular brand. It's just not financially viable. You think because SIG/Beretta/etc show a particular caliber, finish, sight or grip on their website.......that they actually manufacture that model as shown? Well, they don't. Heck, even the guns on display at SHOT are merely to gauge interest and many are never actually produced.
So? There are literally hundreds of companies that will customize any gun you want.......and not just 1911's (that's what "and a host of others await" means.
There's your problem.....that YOU know of.
You complain about my only mentioning "All 1911s", ignoring a host of others............look at who you mention: BHP.......a gun that's been out of production for over three years.
You didn't mention Sig, or Glock..........numerous shops offer services.
Again, you can do that now. And again, you'll pay through the nose because first, manufacturers hate dozens of SKU's, distributors hate dozens of SKU's, and dealers can only stock so many. If what you want is for example the CZ factory or Beretta in Italy to make you a custom gun.............get real. They aren't going to. Never. Put yourself in their shoes.....why would they completely change their production line to offer an unlimited number of options for relatively little financial gain. The manpower and time involved is EXACTLY the reason why S&W, Colt, CZ, etc have "Custom Shops". You want something with special sauce...........PAY EXTRA.
Really? How long you been a gun dealer? How many distributors do you have access to? Tell me the wholesale cost of a Glock 17, a Benelli M4, a Sig P320. Tell us about why MAP exists.
I ask because "even before the current hysteria, guns had a hell of a lot more than 5% margin" is ignorant.
FFGColorado
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I like to see MSRP be closer to actual prices. NOT looking to see more expensive guns and talking pre covid BUT...looked at a Taurus model 82..wanted a simple 38Special, full size revolver..MSRP is about $430...I bought mine for $340. I asked the sales guy why such a difference and he mentioned they get great prices from their distributor and their margin is pretty low..BUT..this pistol was priced about that everywhere, retail.
Bought a Ruger LC9s for $340, (MSRP about $520), a Ruger LCP for $185...type thing.
Only example I've seen of pretty close is Glock..bought a Glock 43 for $449, a Glock 48 for $459. From LGS.
Bought a Ruger LC9s for $340, (MSRP about $520), a Ruger LCP for $185...type thing.
Only example I've seen of pretty close is Glock..bought a Glock 43 for $449, a Glock 48 for $459. From LGS.
I'm fine with a manufacturer not including extra magazines, but I think in some cases there's some price gouging with factory mags. Smith & Wesson factory mags, for instance, are awfully pricey. That's one area where I think Glock is dialed in a bit better.
dogtown tom
Member
I think you missed the part about the actual title of this thread: "If you could change one thing about handgun sales what would it be?"........which doesn't ask at all about your fantasies.
If it was a fantasy thread as you believe why not:
Fifty magazines per handgun at no extra charge?
$100 custom 1911's?
No ATF paperwork on new guns?
.22 target pistols the size of an LCP with 500 round helical magizines?
A gun that leaps from your holster straight into your hand?
See how silly that is? Its as silly as asking what caliber for hunting Martians.
The OP simply wants manufacturers to include more than one magazine with a new gun......that's not a fantasy, thats clearly possible as its already done by 99% of handgun manufacturers.
Barbaroja
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Yes and we can’t change anything about handgun sales.
Which makes this all hypothetical. Aka not real aka a fantasy.
What Nuclear said is he would like to see it change where you could easily select and order various configurations. That’s his “hypothetical” change HE would make. You don’t have to agree in fact there is nothing to agree or disagree with but you seem particularly interested in pointing out why that wouldn’t work. That’s all I was trying to point out. Have a nice day.
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Brubz
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Let me weigh in since I started this thread .it was not meant to be a fantasy thread I'm not saying that it would be nice if Ruger would include a brand new car with the purchase of every GP100 revolver.
I started by saying that I wish that manufacturers would include more than one magazine but then after some comments I changed that to just make the magazines actually available from the manufacturer and not constantly seeing " out of stock"
I started by saying that I wish that manufacturers would include more than one magazine but then after some comments I changed that to just make the magazines actually available from the manufacturer and not constantly seeing " out of stock"
OP
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Brubz
Member
I have to disagree with the comment that 99% of Manufacturers include an extra magazine of the five guns that I have bought with my Nancy Pelosi stimulus money only two have had extra magazines the other three did not
Pat Riot
Contributing Member
I agree with the folks that want a reasonable number of mags with each gun. 2 is okay, 3 better. 1 is just silly.
On a more important note, to me, I would love to see ALL Firearms Manufacturers get real with Quality Control. This BS they call QC now, be it ISO 900 or what I call “ISO-9, zero, zero, zero” or whatever they use is definitely not QC or QA.
On a more important note, to me, I would love to see ALL Firearms Manufacturers get real with Quality Control. This BS they call QC now, be it ISO 900 or what I call “ISO-9, zero, zero, zero” or whatever they use is definitely not QC or QA.
SterlingBullet
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All semi-automatic pistols should include a magazine loader designed for that specific magazine. My Ruger SR9C came with a stamped metal one ten years ago. New Glocks now include a plastic loader. A plastic loader probably cost less than 25 cents to make. A small cost to make every pistol much easier to load.
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Brubz
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That's a great idea!
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