Armybrat
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Am completely comfortable carrying my Kahr CW9 and never feel under gunned with it.
Anyone else begrudgingly packing a 9mm
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bannockburn
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Armybrat
Nor do I when I carry my CM9, though I bring along a couple of spare mags when I go out!
Nor do I when I carry my CM9, though I bring along a couple of spare mags when I go out!
reverseturn
Member
Well for me the punybellum is something of an upgrade so i am good with it.
For regular albeit infrequent carry I've switched from a 38 LCR to small 9mm (Beretta APX Carry ie: Nano 2.0). Upgrade reasons being 1. Out of short barrel the 9mm is a more capable round. 2. Other than lightly loaded 38 wadcutters the 9mm is more enjoyable to shoot. Who knows some day that may even translate into better accuracy. 3. For the chance develop a skill on something new.
Pretty much neutral factors are concealabilty as the size is essentially the same and the dependablity is acceptable in both cases.
OTOH when riding my bike through the neighborhood, weight, concealability and my back are not concerns, I often carry my heaviest, largest steel guns in calibers intended for serious work.
BTW: I thought the thread title and OP expressed a bit of bemused humor and self reflection. So I didn't much care for the the thread's relentless drift into caliber orthodoxy. I know I need a break to adjust my attitude when I don't disagree with someones point but still have this strong urge to disagree with a post
For regular albeit infrequent carry I've switched from a 38 LCR to small 9mm (Beretta APX Carry ie: Nano 2.0). Upgrade reasons being 1. Out of short barrel the 9mm is a more capable round. 2. Other than lightly loaded 38 wadcutters the 9mm is more enjoyable to shoot. Who knows some day that may even translate into better accuracy. 3. For the chance develop a skill on something new.
Pretty much neutral factors are concealabilty as the size is essentially the same and the dependablity is acceptable in both cases.
OTOH when riding my bike through the neighborhood, weight, concealability and my back are not concerns, I often carry my heaviest, largest steel guns in calibers intended for serious work.
BTW: I thought the thread title and OP expressed a bit of bemused humor and self reflection. So I didn't much care for the the thread's relentless drift into caliber orthodoxy. I know I need a break to adjust my attitude when I don't disagree with someones point but still have this strong urge to disagree with a post
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I carry a 9mm, but wouldn't call it "begrudgingly." For the first 4-5 years that I carried, this was in my holster:
I was pretty good about carrying almost full-time, too. I say "almost," because there were rare occasions I went out and about without a pistol, to be honest. I carried that 1911 about 85% of the time that I carried, with the other 15% taken up by an LCR that I pocket carried. I also carried 2 spare mags on my weak side. Still, after a few years, that 1911 started to feel heavy. So I decided to move to something lighter. By I began the Spats McGee Overthinkers Anonymous Gun Selection Process, I'd learned enough to know that I didn't absolutely, positively have to have "a caliber that starts with a 4." Or an all-steel pistol, for that matter. So I got a Glock. After a few years, I moved on from that to a Shield. Then the Shield Plus came out.
So now, I carry this:
Do I really need 40 rounds of 9mm with me every day? Goodness gracious, I sure hope I never do. Do I think the 9mm is as good as the .45 acp? Not really. Yes, I know the "with modern bullets, the 9mm is as good as the .45 acp" arguments. Still, I've never been able to shake the idea that the .45 acp has benefited from advancements in technology, too. Nonetheless, the 9mm has surely improved over the years. So the question for me was (kind of one) of "marginal utility." (And I apologize for any subject-matter experts for my possible misuse of the phrase.) For me, the question became: (1) Whether there was enough of a benefit to using the .45 acp that its use overcame (2) its additional cost compared to 9mm; and (3) the benefit of having extra 9mm ammo in the same "space and weight envelope" that would be required to carry .45 acp.
I was pretty good about carrying almost full-time, too. I say "almost," because there were rare occasions I went out and about without a pistol, to be honest. I carried that 1911 about 85% of the time that I carried, with the other 15% taken up by an LCR that I pocket carried. I also carried 2 spare mags on my weak side. Still, after a few years, that 1911 started to feel heavy. So I decided to move to something lighter. By I began the Spats McGee Overthinkers Anonymous Gun Selection Process, I'd learned enough to know that I didn't absolutely, positively have to have "a caliber that starts with a 4." Or an all-steel pistol, for that matter. So I got a Glock. After a few years, I moved on from that to a Shield. Then the Shield Plus came out.
So now, I carry this:
Do I really need 40 rounds of 9mm with me every day? Goodness gracious, I sure hope I never do. Do I think the 9mm is as good as the .45 acp? Not really. Yes, I know the "with modern bullets, the 9mm is as good as the .45 acp" arguments. Still, I've never been able to shake the idea that the .45 acp has benefited from advancements in technology, too. Nonetheless, the 9mm has surely improved over the years. So the question for me was (kind of one) of "marginal utility." (And I apologize for any subject-matter experts for my possible misuse of the phrase.) For me, the question became: (1) Whether there was enough of a benefit to using the .45 acp that its use overcame (2) its additional cost compared to 9mm; and (3) the benefit of having extra 9mm ammo in the same "space and weight envelope" that would be required to carry .45 acp.
Charlie Martinez
Member
I have no issues with 9 mm or 40. My reason for "preferring" 45 is that it's what I am set up to reload. I do not have time to reload many different calibers or shoot many different guns. If it were the other way around (ie if I reloaded 9 mm) it would be a no-brainer. I started out when semi-autos in 9 mm (32 and 380) were believed to not be effective "man stoppers" so all of my reloading gear and experience in pistols is in 45 ACP.
If I were to do something "begrudgingly" is that I would "begrudgingly" sacrifice magazine capacity and choose 45 over the 9.
If I were to do something "begrudgingly" is that I would "begrudgingly" sacrifice magazine capacity and choose 45 over the 9.
RedlegRick
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A 9mm is my EDC, and my bedside piece, as well as my trail gun. It's the one on my avatar pic. Also have a Glock 17, and I don't feel undergunned in the least.
Ammo is still 'cheap' (relatively speaking), and I have a legit reason not going bigger.
I've broken both wrists multiple times over my lifetime (active lifestyle and being a bar bouncer), and can't handle heavy recoil anymore, especially in my right hand. 9mm is about the top end I can handle, simple as that.
Ammo is still 'cheap' (relatively speaking), and I have a legit reason not going bigger.
I've broken both wrists multiple times over my lifetime (active lifestyle and being a bar bouncer), and can't handle heavy recoil anymore, especially in my right hand. 9mm is about the top end I can handle, simple as that.
Jackalope 1
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In 2009 while sitting in an outdoor Restaurant enjoying a delicious German dinner which happens to be in the City of Pfungstadt, Germany I had the chance to converse with an elderly German man and eventually the conversation evolved discussion of firearms. His opinion was the U.S.A using 45 ACP ammo was rather unfair ( he had served in the German Army ) when I asked him why he said " you got shot by a 45 auto you were killed outright or rapidly bled to death, whereupon the 9 mm would just wound you". My reply was " really, what is the intention of the 9mm para bellum" ?? His reply " para bellum means for wounding"!! Perhaps one or more members of this Forum could clarify these or this word " Parabellum " ????
9mm is not my preferred caliber but I don't hate it either. I do have a 1911 chambered for .45 ACP. A compact (mid-sized) .40 & a micro 9. For a long time I have liked the larger calibers in larger guns & the 9mm in smaller ones. I haven't gotten one of the double stack micro 9's yet. I'm still watching & reading up on them trying to figure out which one is the most bang for the buck. I will probably wind up with one of them eventually.
Rubone
Member
I carry what I want , when I want. I don't begrudge anything in my life.
Zerodefect
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My only begrudge is warm weather requiring a smaller pistol. And eventually even smaller pistols, that are better suited to 9mm and .38 special.
A Glock 35.4 completely wastes a Glock 23.4 at any kind of extended range. Which really doesn't apply to ccw anyways, but I feel under gunned at 4", because I know what I'm leaving on the table.
A Glock 35.4 completely wastes a Glock 23.4 at any kind of extended range. Which really doesn't apply to ccw anyways, but I feel under gunned at 4", because I know what I'm leaving on the table.
Space Ghost
Member
I was... at first. Been a 1911 man all my life. Thing is I wanted something with a light, and just thought a 1911 looked stupid with a light on it. (I know, who cares what they LOOK like) Anyway, I went Glock, and ended up liking the dang thing. My boy had a Glock 45 (9mm) but wanted to changeover to whatever Glock is a .40 cal so he would have the same gun off duty as on. (Sheriff deputy) so he sold me his old one and bought a new one. What do you know, I like the thing. Put a TLR-& on it.
However, after selling my 1911, and all my .45 ACP ammo, I missed having a 1911, so I ended up getting another, but I just got one in 9mm this time, a Dan Wesson Guardian. Like that too. I'm older, and have nerve damage from my wounds anyhow so my grip strength isn't what it once was. I'm liking the 9mm round. Modern defensive ammo is much better than in years past, so I'm happy to stay with 9mm.
However, after selling my 1911, and all my .45 ACP ammo, I missed having a 1911, so I ended up getting another, but I just got one in 9mm this time, a Dan Wesson Guardian. Like that too. I'm older, and have nerve damage from my wounds anyhow so my grip strength isn't what it once was. I'm liking the 9mm round. Modern defensive ammo is much better than in years past, so I'm happy to stay with 9mm.
RedlegRick
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Latin term:Vi Ci Pacem, Para Bellum, if you want peace, prepare for war.
Well, “begrudgingly” is not an applicable term, in my case, now that bullet technology has made 9mm much better than it was, when I started shooting handguns, in the early Eighties. I cannot say that 9mm is a favorite cartridge, but do carry a 9mm pistol when circumstances make one of my 9mm pistols the logical and/or expedient choice. The 9mm is adequate, so it will do, if I am up to the task of shot placement.
The .38 Super, being technically better than 9mm, is one of those cartridges that I have “almost” added, for decades, since the 1911 became an early favorite pistol system, as soon as I was able to legally start buying handguns, in late 1982. Thus far, my 1911 pistols have all been chambered for the .45 ACP, and, as my right hand has becoming gimpy, and less trusted to provide a sufficiently stable platform for auto-loading functioning, if shooting right-handed, and less-trusted to reliably run a slide, if shooting lefty, it is becoming less likely that I will ever acquire a .38 Super pistol, as revolvers have become my default “primary” carry guns, in retirement, when I no longer have a duty to intervene, in the affairs of other folks. (Autoloaders still have roles to play, so I have not forsaken them.)
The .38 Super, being technically better than 9mm, is one of those cartridges that I have “almost” added, for decades, since the 1911 became an early favorite pistol system, as soon as I was able to legally start buying handguns, in late 1982. Thus far, my 1911 pistols have all been chambered for the .45 ACP, and, as my right hand has becoming gimpy, and less trusted to provide a sufficiently stable platform for auto-loading functioning, if shooting right-handed, and less-trusted to reliably run a slide, if shooting lefty, it is becoming less likely that I will ever acquire a .38 Super pistol, as revolvers have become my default “primary” carry guns, in retirement, when I no longer have a duty to intervene, in the affairs of other folks. (Autoloaders still have roles to play, so I have not forsaken them.)
wally
Member
Bullet placement on the target is the single most important factor in defensive handgun effectiveness. Second is bullet penetration, inadequate penetration will negate a well placed shot.
bannockburn
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Jackalope 1
I can recall reading somewhere about that very thing; that the 9mm. Parabellum was adopted by the Germans primarily because it was effective in wounding the enemy. Their line of reasoning went something like this: Shoot and kill one enemy soldier and you have taken one soldier out of the fight. However wound one enemy soldier and maybe two of his buddies try to help him. Now you have two more targets of opportunity to shoot at or at the very least you have taken two more soldiers out of the fight as they try to get him off the battlefield to get medical help. Don't know how true this is but it wouldn't surprise me if there was maybe some basis of fact in it.
I can recall reading somewhere about that very thing; that the 9mm. Parabellum was adopted by the Germans primarily because it was effective in wounding the enemy. Their line of reasoning went something like this: Shoot and kill one enemy soldier and you have taken one soldier out of the fight. However wound one enemy soldier and maybe two of his buddies try to help him. Now you have two more targets of opportunity to shoot at or at the very least you have taken two more soldiers out of the fight as they try to get him off the battlefield to get medical help. Don't know how true this is but it wouldn't surprise me if there was maybe some basis of fact in it.
John Joseph
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I'd be grateful just to live in a country that allows concealed carry of any caliber.
If Parabellum is good enough for NATO I'd be good with that----although I'd be better with a .45
If Parabellum is good enough for NATO I'd be good with that----although I'd be better with a .45
JR24
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That's an oft repeated myth about .223 too, I'm doubting it.
bannockburn
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Rexster
I was mentored by two older friends who introduced me into my long term interest in the .38 Super. Didn't have one for quite awhile but a few years back I finally was reacquainted with both the gun and the cartridge again in a great, lightweight package: a Colt Commander. A well made gun that serves me as both an easy to shoot range gun (especially with an extra 9mm. barrel for it), and as a CCW piece. So if you still have a hankering for a .38 Super I would say "do it" and enjoy shooting a 1911 all over again!
I was mentored by two older friends who introduced me into my long term interest in the .38 Super. Didn't have one for quite awhile but a few years back I finally was reacquainted with both the gun and the cartridge again in a great, lightweight package: a Colt Commander. A well made gun that serves me as both an easy to shoot range gun (especially with an extra 9mm. barrel for it), and as a CCW piece. So if you still have a hankering for a .38 Super I would say "do it" and enjoy shooting a 1911 all over again!
Howland937
Member
Not I.
But I would without hesitation, if I didn't have guns in other calibers I like more. I don't begrudge the caliber at all...just a lot of the guns they chamber in 9mm.
But I would without hesitation, if I didn't have guns in other calibers I like more. I don't begrudge the caliber at all...just a lot of the guns they chamber in 9mm.
JR24
Member
Decided to put a 9mm back in my holster after I finally shot this gun for the first time in a year or so (other than a mag on two occasions in the past few months). As usual when I do these things I wonder why I ever stopped carrying it.
Stevie-Ray
Member
It was never begrudgingly for me. Even though I usually carry a 3" .45 ACP, I've always carried the Glock 26 as a cycling gun. Far easier to shoot one-handed, and therefore still control the bike, if ever having to shoot on the fly. Nowadays also, I carry a S&W M&P Performance Center Shield 2, when wanting a very thin profile. Like the fact that my practice ammo also shoots to the same exact POA as my carry ammo.
I finally shot my first ever .38 Super and my first Commander both at the same time just last week, thanx to a friend. Always wanted one of each. Now, I want my Commander in Super.
bannockburn
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JR24
Didn't hear that story about the .223 but I do recall one where it was claimed that the bullets were supposed to tumble, thereby tuning them into mini buzz saws which would easily cut the limbs off of enemy soldiers!
Didn't hear that story about the .223 but I do recall one where it was claimed that the bullets were supposed to tumble, thereby tuning them into mini buzz saws which would easily cut the limbs off of enemy soldiers!
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