Someone needs to make a new straight walled rifle cartridge for deer hunting in Ohio

Well, there is this: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=178655.

Or you could experiment with 35 caliber bullets in a .45-70 using sabots like these: http://mmpsabots.com/store/blue-sabot/.

You can get into reloading very reasonable with one of these;
http://leeprecision.com/lee-loader-45-70-govt.html
for $40. Works good for me, I only load for deer hunting, wack-a-mole
is good enough.

^ that's how i started my journey into reloading as well. i started off loading match grade ammo for a .308. i quickly decided that i wanted a single stage press and a better set-up, but the lee loader is great.

I'm a little confused..... Isn't the whole point of straight walled cartridges to achieve a safer environment in the woods by holding down the distance covered before the bullets dig into the sod? If that's right then why go to a lot of trouble trying to make them match the muzzle speeds and flat distance covering of necked cartridges?

I'm also guessing that Ohio is fairly wooded? If so that would mean that most shots will be at closer distances anyway?

Finally if the hunter's there are already used to max 200 yard shots from the shotgun slug shooting then is it that big an issue to close in to the same sort of distance so they can use the greater accuracy of a proper rifle?

The Lee Loader is a great option for those who do not want to invest a lot of money in reloading equipment. I know a man who who has been loading all his big game ammo using one of these, and fills his deer tag every year. The ammo is very accurate. If you shop around you can get these new for a lot less than Lee's Suggested Price. This site sells them for $25:
http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=LEE90264&src=exrbSrch

What a 32 cal then get a 32-40 winchester.

BCRider said:

I'm a little confused..... Isn't the whole point of straight walled cartridges to achieve a safer environment in the woods by holding down the distance covered before the bullets dig into the sod? If that's right then why go to a lot of trouble trying to make them match the muzzle speeds and flat distance covering of necked cartridges?

I'm also guessing that Ohio is fairly wooded? If so that would mean that most shots will be at closer distances anyway?

Finally if the hunter's there are already used to max 200 yard shots from the shotgun slug shooting then is it that big an issue to close in to the same sort of distance so they can use the greater accuracy of a proper rifle?

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Ohio is also a large state...maybe the government's one size fits all mentality doesn't work. Maybe it is perfectly safe in some parts of the state to shoot long range cartridges.

Ohio like most states probably has plenty of wide open agricultural fields.

Hey you might as well say Why the need for guns when hunters were used to harvesting game with bow and arrow.

Only a luddite would eschew trying to find the best solution they can.

I deer hunt in Indiana, which is pretty much the same as Ohio. Well, without Cleveland but we have Gary so maybe it's a wash. Now, you can rattle on all you want about hunting the thick stuff, yadda, yadda. I've killed dozens and dozens of deer in my 63 years. Some were close in the woods, but I'm guessing more were in the open corn, hay, and bean fields.

I've got an AR in .358 WSSM. Used it to get a deer in a plowed bean field at 279 yards. Indiana basically wanted to eliminate the bottle neck rounds but we found a way around it, being the resourceful fellows we are. Sitting in the woods watching deer feed in the middle of a 20 acre field gets tiresome. Now, they're fair game.

That said, if you're gonna take that plunge better be careful. There are houses around where we hunt. You look behind first, then at the animal.

There's a reason bottleneck cartridges give more velocity. You're trying to squirt a lot of gas/pressure/heat thru a little bitty opening, pushing the bullet. If the base of the bullet is the same size as the case, the bullet squirts out too easily and you don't build pressure. Unless you know how to cheat the laws of physics, you're not gonna do a lot better than what's out there. If you believe you're gonna invent some super round nobody's ever thought of, have at it. But before you try, buy a copy of Cartridges of the World. Trust me. There's just about nothing that hasn't already been tried.

Yes Back 40, I too have a single stage press, but the ol' wack-a-mole for 45/70 works great for me, I can watch TV and load some rounds for the next hunt. They work great and full length size on straight walled cartridges. For bottle neck cartridges, you need to remember they only neck size, only use brass fired from the weapon which they are being reloaded for....... Don't ask me how I know.
Trek, I did pay $25 for mine. Had the LGS order it for me.
STW

Can't resist the opportunity to tell a Lee Loader story. Scene: Three commercial divers living in a 3 bedroom apartment in Houma Louisiana in 1979. I was the only shooter among the group. I bought a Lee Loader for .357 and hammered out about 100 a week on the kitchen table, much to the annoyance of my roomates. Come Christmas day a nice box was handed to me with a smile by my roomies, containing a Lee turret press and a set of dies in .357. Seems as they had gone to the local gunshop, explained what I was doing, listened to the owner explain what they needed to buy, and wisely invested in their own peace and quiet.

I've used that press ever since....

Still like the old Lee Loader though.


Willie

.

If Marlin would make a .357max lever gun, it would be one heck of a carbine.

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It would have to be a longer action than the 1894, which is a 336, which is already chambered in .35Remington.

HOOfan_1 said:

Ohio is also a large state...maybe the government's one size fits all mentality doesn't work. Maybe it is perfectly safe in some parts of the state to shoot long range cartridges.

Ohio like most states probably has plenty of wide open agricultural fields.

Hey you might as well say Why the need for guns when hunters were used to harvesting game with bow and arrow.

Only a luddite would eschew trying to find the best solution they can.

Click to expand...

Ohio may be a big state by comparison to some east of the Mississippi River but it really isn't that big. Size really has nothing to do with it anyway. The whole reason that deer hunting with a modern rifle is mostly illegal east of the big river is because of population density. Ohio is the 10th most populated state in the U.S. which tells me that there are very few places in Ohio that aren't populated. When I say populated I mean a structure or road within 300 yards of just about anywhere you want to go in the state. I don't live in Ohio but I've been there many times.

Hunting with a straight walled cartridge is a concession to modern firearms hunters in places like Ohio and a good one. I think it will catch on east of the Mississippi.

Shotguns are for shot.

CoalTrain49 said:

Hunting with a straight walled rifle cartridge is a concession to modern firearms hunters in places like Ohio and a good one. I think it will catch on east of the Mississippi.

Shotguns are for shot.

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Well in Virginia...in the counties which don't allow rifles or pistols for hunting, they don't allow slugs either.

The fact that so many states have so many rules... (i.e. many places in Virginia are buckshot only, while other states specifically prohibit buckshot)...it tells me that those who are making the rules don't always know anything they are making the rules about (cue "the shoulder thing that goes up")

Then again there are some counties which have people who use their brain and come up with rules like "rifle use is allowed from a stand elevated at least 10 feet off the ground"...in which case they know that shots will be taken at a downward angle.

Like I said...Ohio is a big state...and I am sure there are PLENTY of areas where standard rifle use would be perfectly fine....yet they choose a one size fits all law.

HOOfan_1 said:

Well in Virginia...in the counties which don't allow rifles or pistols for hunting, they don't allow slugs either.

The fact that so many states have so many rules... (i.e. many places in Virginia are buckshot only, while other states specifically prohibit buckshot)...it tells me that those who are making the rules don't always know anything they are making the rules about (cue "the shoulder thing that goes up")

Then again there are some counties which have people who use their brain and come up with rules like "rifle use is allowed from a stand elevated at least 10 feet off the ground"...in which case they know that shots will be taken at a downward angle.

Like I said...Ohio is a big state...and I am sure there are PLENTY of areas where standard rifle use would be perfectly fine....yet they choose a one size fits all law.

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I think you will find that the regulations are far less restrictive in most states.

It looks like you have about 82 different sizes and you better know which ones fit you.

http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting/regulations/local-ordinances.pdf

There are plenty of options out there, especially if you handload. My recommendation would be leverevolution in a 45-70 if you don't handload and want decent ballistics out to 200 yards.

You could use our 28ga From Hell with 3" brass case

using 58cal Minie bullets. Still be a shotgun caliber and more

power than any straight wall case mentioned here.Ed

If Marlin would make a .357max lever gun, it would be one heck of a carbine.

CraigC said:

It would have to be a longer action than the 1894, which is a 336, which is already chambered in .35Remington.

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You sure about that, Craig? I have an 1894 and had a 336, and recall the 336's action was definitely longer.

FWIW, as far as a straight-walled hunting cartridge, I'll vote for the "learn to reload .45-70/.44mag/.45Colt" option.

I have an 1894 and had a 336, and recall the 336's action was definitely longer.

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I'm pretty sure that's what I said.

You did. I misread. Carry on.

I probably worded it funny.

CoalTrain49 said:

The whole reason that deer hunting with a modern rifle is mostly illegal west of the big river is because of population density. Ohio is the 10th most populated state in the U.S. which tells me that there are very few places in Ohio that aren't populated. When I say populated I mean a structure or road within 300 yards of just about anywhere you want to go in the state. I don't live in Ohio but I've been there many times.

Hunting with a straight walled cartridge is a concession to modern firearms hunters in places like Ohio and a good one. I think it will catch on east of the Mississippi.

Shotguns are for shot.

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Are there any states west of the Mississippi that don't allow modern rifles? All of the most population dense states except Kali tend to be east of the Mississippi. Out of curiosity (I can't find a list on the interweb) what states, besides Ohio, Indiana and New York prohibit bottle neck cartridges for deer hunting?

Gtscotty said:

Are there any states west of the Mississippi that don't allow modern rifles? All of the most population dense states except Kali tend to be east of the Mississippi. Out of curiosity (I can't find a list on the interweb) what states, besides Ohio, Indiana and New York prohibit bottle neck cartridges for deer hunting?

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I meant east of the big river. I think just about every state west of the Mississippi use modern rifles. In WA 300 Win mag is very popular.

Legal under Ohio's new law is what's on the list, will the list be expanded? who knows but I wouldn't hold my breath or waste time fantasizing about what could be. I'm just thankful they're not making us plug lever guns.

Truly, you could just buy a Lee Loader for about $30 (really) and add a ball peen hammer to that and you're off and running, albeit at a walking pace.

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*chuckle*