7/28/05 Senate S.397 Discussion

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Frist is taking a calculated risk to keep the moderates in line. Remember, he needs 60 votes tomorrow. Let's just keep our eye on the ball...........

I know it's frustrating as hell, but there is little else we can do at this point.

Yanus
 
Still voting; but the ayes outnumber the nays. Unless there is some serious vote changing (unlikely), the Levin Amendment is dead...

The funny part is Kennedy got confused and voted to kill Levin's amendment before he realized what was going on and had to change his vote.
 
They've got plenty of time left for debate and nobody has moved for cloture, so I'd say we will see some other amendments. Frist and Craig will probably reserve the amendments they've filed to be voted on last. So I'd say when you see those amendments come up for a vote, we are getting near the end.
 
The vote to table (kill) the Levin Amendment, which would allow lawsuits against individuals or dealers whose misconduct or negligence results injury or death (or in truth, completely undermine S.397), passes.

Yeas: 62

Nays: 37
 
I can live with the lock law as long as you can supply your own and it does not dictate time/mannor/place of use. It appears to provide immunity for liability if used and yet there is unauthorized access. That is good, so long as no use is notpre se negligence.
 
Sessions: The SecDef legal counsel wrote a letter supporting S.397 because they are concerned about the mfg that produce firearms for mil and LE. It restores the historic principles of liability in this nation. What industry might be next if we erode the classic principles that protect our businesses? I was pleased to hear we have achieved a bi-partisan co-sponsorship with 61 Senators. We can see the end in sight, let's complete this one. I believe that the opposition to S.397 spins out of a hostility to firearms, mostly from big cities. The emotional fervor arises out of a fear of crime, and a misunderstanding of the character of law-abiding citizens whom posses firearms. I understand that crime is a big part of the objection to firearms, and it is out of the fear and concern that we have cities passing laws making mfgs liable. Talks about DC saying Beretta can be responsible for the murders in DC. This is not a sound principle of law, and it is what we're trying to curtail, the use of courts to obtain a policy not supported by the people. What is causing crime? What can we do to deal with it, how can we use gun laws to reduce crime and violence? Does passing more and more laws on gun owners reduce crime? It does not. There are dramatic numbers that indicate the effectiveness of gun law prosecution to reduce crime. Talks about his prosecution background.
 
ROLL CALL - Trigger Locks

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00207

I don't like it, but I'll accept it as a price to pay to end gun lawsuits.

YEAs ---70
Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brownback (R-KS)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Chafee (R-RI)
Clinton (D-NY)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Dayton (D-MN)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dodd (D-CT)
Domenici (R-NM)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Frist (R-TN)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lugar (R-IN)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Obama (D-IL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Santorum (R-PA)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)
Wyden (D-OR)





NAYs ---30
Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burns (R-MT)
Burr (R-NC)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Dole (R-NC)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Hatch (R-UT)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lott (R-MS)
Martinez (R-FL)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Talent (R-MO)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
 
BTW - Who voted on the Carl Lenin amendment? I don't know what it is since I can't find it, but if Lenin is behind it, I know it has to suck.

BTW II - Don't blame me, I voted for Rocky.
 
Sessions: What we did was focus on the laws that dealt with criminal behavior. Talks about Project Exile, and like programs. When I came to Senate, there was one new gun law after another that restricted gun access. I asked what are we doing prosecution wise? Shows chart that demonstrates drop of gun crime prosecutions during Clinton reign. Shows rise during Bush administration. Talks about use of machine guns among drug dealers, and the drop in use due to tougher penalties. More discussion of Project Exile, and it's effectiveness.

Craig: When a criminal was questioned about why he used a baseball bat to use in a holdup of a 7-11 instead of a gun, he responded that he knew he would do serious time if he used a gun.

Sessions: 00-03 saw and increase of 68% in gun crime prosecutions. Says Repubs aren't soft on gun crimes. FFL prosecutions went up 54% (maybe?). As prosecutions increased, number of crimes with guns has decreased. More talk of similar programs. Lots of statistics.
 
Sessions: It's not how many laws we pass, it's whether we allow prosecutions to drop. When you maintain aggressive, systematic prosecution of dangerous criminals with firearms, you protect the people. These other laws just burden citizens, and often times just degrades their constitutional right. Cali, Illinois, NY, and DC has a 20% higher homicide rate. ‘68 made guns harder to get than ever, but for the 5 years after, murder was up 50%, 10 years 70%, etc. You end up with restrictions and cost on honest Americans.
 
Vote to table (defeat) Carl Lenin amendment


YEAs ---62
Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burns (R-MT)
Burr (R-NC)
Byrd (D-WV)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Dole (R-NC)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Frist (R-TN)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lott (R-MS)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reid (D-NV)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Santorum (R-PA)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)
Talent (R-MO)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)

NAYs ---37
Akaka (D-HI)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Chafee (R-RI)
Clinton (D-NY)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Dayton (D-MN)
DeWine (R-OH) - RINO
Dodd (D-CT)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI) - Don't blame me, I voted for Rocky
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lugar (R-IN) - RINO
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Obama (D-IL)
Reed (D-RI)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Stabenow (D-MI) - KEITH BUTLER IN 06!!!!!
Warner (R-VA) - RINO
Wyden (D-OR)

Not Voting - 1
Domenici (R-NM)
 
Sessions: In ‘91, 162k criminals on probation committed 44k violent crimes. 21% involved in killing of police officers were on parole. LE aren't telling me they want to sue S&W, they want criminals prosecuted, with less probation. A US attorney in Alabama was presented a award for most improved gun violence program, Project ICE. A task force developed a training program and case prep plan. Fed gun prosecutions tripled. Number of gun crime prosecutions increased 257%. Local officials said these efforts had a measurable effect on crime, a 42% reduction in murders.
 
Reed: We have heard talk about personal responsibility, but this legislation says everyone is responsible but them. We're ignoring civil law for criminal law. S.397 would prevent injured Americans from going to court for redress. It's important we recognize that this bill denies a voice to many people who have been injured and seek redress. There are some jurisdictions that make it a violation of law to operate a cell phone while driving. But you could also be sued. Areas without this law would still allow suits. But we're disregarding instances where there is no violation of law. Essentially what we've said is that we all have these responsibilities, except gun mfg and dealers. In fact, the black letter law clearly says if there is a criminal intervention, you can still be held responsible for negligence. The notion that we're charging dealers with the crimes of others is without base. This is about the duty of mfg, dealer to fulfil their duty to the public, such as securing weapons, looking beyond the superficial aspect of somebody walking into the store. It's not about social conditions being excused by these suits, it's about a failed duty. One of the major reasons we're here and taking radical action to change 200 years of legal history, is that there is supposedly this huge crisis effecting mfgs. That these suits are numerous and driving them bankrupt. The fact is that there is no crisis. This is a fake crisis, a pretext to do the will of the gun lobby.
 
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