Targa
Member
I will be curious to see if the 30SC last over time, I do know that I can find ammo for it every where I look.
@TTv2Errr.. You have never owned one and are expounding the 365s virtues countless times?
Is that correct?
Sorry about that, I wasn't even trying to be off topic. The conversation started with how I thought 30-SC didn't bring enough benefits to warrant switching from 9mm.I looked into a P365 when they came out, but it did not end up on my short list--or even on the long list.
There are a number of reasons for that, but that is not the topic here.
I am not currently planning to buy a .30 SC, but every now and then a new review, another real world shooting incident, or something else comes up to keep it in the back of my mind. Goose Gestapo's post was worth noting.
Sorry about that, I wasn't even trying to be off topic
There is a lot more to handgun selection than size and capacity.To me, with technology like 1.5-stack available, I see very minimal benefit in switching to 30-SC,
Agreed, I never said the round was completely useless. I even said its quite interesting.No problem at all. But my discssing why I do not like the P365 would be too far afield.
There is a lot more to handgun selection than size and capacity.
And for the kinds I prefer, there is an advantage.
Every handgun is a compromise. I compromised capacity to optimize other things. The Avivity Arms PD 10 meets almost all of my requirements and adds more capacity, but it was not available.ts just that the problems people had with 9mm for concealed carry have been addressed.....I can pretty much GUARANTEE you there is a 9mm option out there that suits ALL of your needs and concerns.
If we could do that without creating more problems, that would be great. It hasn't been done.And thats my overall point - if you can literally solve 99% of all concerns for size, weight, and use case, ....
I am not at all convinced that that "step down" is real, from a practical standpoint, for those who do not need to penetrate auto glass and auto bodies..... then why do we need a new cartridge thats less powerful than 9mm? Will a 30-SC carry option offer any major benefits over a modern 9mm 1.5 stack, bearing in mind the step down in power from 9mm to 30-SC?
I do not--not at all.You may like an alternative like a Springfield Hellcat or Hellcat Pro
Not for me. I think there is a practical upper limit for capacity for a civilian whio is not duty bound to pursue a perp after a use of force encounter. As they saying goes, one can run out of time before running out of ammo.So considering All of that, the one REAL, BIG advantage of 30-SC would be to have a traditional double stack like a Glock 19
That popularity is good and bad--more availability sometimes, and a lot less in other times--and it is good for nothing else.. But are you seriously going to consider ditching the world's most popular round as your CCW....
I am thinking about it.JUST because 30-SC has a SINGLE notable advantage?
Every handgun is a compromise. I compromised capacity to optimize other things. The Avivity Arms PD 10 meets almost all of my requirements and adds more capacity, but it was not available.
If we could do that without creating more problems, that would be great. It hasn't been done.
Not for me. I think there is a practical upper limit for capacity for a civilian whio is not duty bound to pursue a perp after a use of force encounter. As they saying goes, one can run out of time before running out of ammo.
That popularity is good and bad--more availability sometimes, and a lot less in other times--and it is good for nothing else.
I am thinking about it.
Buyers have to decide upon height, length, thickness, weight, grip shape and angle, trigger all, slide racking effort, capacity, terminal ballistics, recoil, reliability, safety characteristics, price, and ammunition availability. That involves compromises.Not sure what you mean because the 1.5 stack literally isn't a compromise
Who might those people be? Mass shootings are very, very, very rare.People want more capacity Because they are scared with all the mass shootings lately that they won't have enough.
Well, yeah, statisically, one is at least as likely to have to deal with two or three perps as with one.These days, you NEED to be able to deal with more than one perp if you want to be safe.
Yes, we keep coming back to that.The whole reason for it is more capacity. Thats the only reason 30-SC was even invented.
Power is what leads to penetration, and the .30 SC is close to the 9 in that measure.I mean more power to you if you really feel like those extra 2 rounds will make up for the drop in power...
Buyers have to decide upon height, length, thickness, weight, grip shape and angle, trigger all, slide racking effort, capacity, terminal ballistics, recoil, reliability, safety characteristics, price, and ammunition availability. That involves compromises.
Who might those people be? Mass shootings are very, very, very rare.
Well, yeah, statisically, one is at least as likely to have to deal with two or three perps as with one.
We have discused capacity considerations at great length. Search "multiple attackers" and look for JohnKSa's analysis.
Yes, we keep coming back to that.
Power is what leads to penetration, and the .30 SC is close to the 9 in that measure.
That would not influence the number of rounds needed--at all.but mass shootings defined as 3 or more innocent people shot for any reason - are now so commonplace that you are just as likely to encounter one as you are to encounter some dude and his buddy coming to try and kill you.
No. There is a practical upper limit to useful capacity for the civilian defender. He will likley run out of time before he runs out of ammo.Ya, we came back to capacity again because you argued that a civilian shouldn't pursue a perp and therefore there is an upper limit for a civilians conceal carry capacity.
No. That's absurd. Have you studied JohnKSa'a analysis.? Do you understand how six rounds can be so much better than five? How eight can be so much better than six, and so on? Do you see the diminishing returns?But the whole point of 30-SC is more capacity so you are making your own argument sound completely pointless.
Is that a scientific conclusion? What is "stopping power"?The stopping power of 5 30-SC rounds is equivalent to about 4 rounds of 9mm.
You may not. It would depend entorely upon how things unfold in the event.so why do I need those 2 extra rounds from 30-SC w
The "overall stopping power of a magazine" is a completely meaningless measure of merit....when the overall stopping power of a magazine only equals that of my 9mm, doesn't even exceed it?
Correct, doesn't matter in that case, however that was just an example, it doesn't change the fact that you have to prepare as best as you can for any given scenario.That would not influence the number of rounds needed--at all.
Yes I have. And of course I agree with it to a certain extent. But there are always variables you simply cannot account for such as stress during a potentially lethal encounter. Plenty of people's aim are way off in a defensive situation no matter how much they trained because there is no perfect substitute for the real thing.No. There is a practical upper limit to useful capacity for the civilian defender. He will likley run out of time before he runs out of ammo.
No. That's absurd. Have you studied JohnKSa'a analysis.? Do you understand how six rounds can be so much better than five? How eight can be so much better than six, and so on? Do you see the diminishing returns?
Simple - its mathematics. Now its not the biggest concern, or the biggest difference, but it IS a difference. Basically we are talking about bullet energy and for simplicity we use muzzle energy as the example.Is that a scientific conclusion? What is "stopping power"?
Exactly, it DEPENDS on how a situation unfolds. You can't accurately predict what will happen to you. So the general consensus is - get the largest weapon with the highest capacity you can that fits your needs and that you carry comfortably. Its really that simple.You may not. It would depend entorely upon how things unfold in the event.
The "overall stopping power of a magazine" is a completely meaningless measure of merit.
No practical reason.Once again, the irony here is strange. You argue that there is no reason for a civilian to carry ammunition beyond a certain amount
... capacity that is within a practical range.yet advocate for a cartridge that was specifically designed to give you more capacity.
Try harder to understand it.That just doesn't make any sense.
Yes it is. This is no about tonnage of ordnance deleivered. It is about what each hit does. That depends upon what it hits, which depends eupon penetration and upon where it hits.You may think overall stopping power of a magazine is useless but it actually isn't.
Read Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness and note the part about kinetic energy.Basically we are talking about bullet energy and for simplicity we use muzzle energy as the example.
I know of no one who says it is any better. The advantage lies in capacity in particular firearms.Again I have no doubt that 30-SC is a perfectly capable carry cartridge, but overall its no better than 9mm, or at least not enough to make a meaningful difference.
I think the 1.5 stack design really works best with 9mm due to its larger size.Reading this thread has me thinking I really want to buy a P365 in .30 Super someday...
i don’t need to go rent one. I own one.Go ahead, try it for yourself, go rent one at your local indoor rage. Almost guaranteed to have one at at least one local range within your nearest large city. Also go to Sigs website and try designing your very own custom P365:
so your the one keeping it a float.PS. I've got enough .45 GAP ammo and components to last several lifetimes. Great cartridge and firearm for the open-minded!
I tend to doubt it unless it passes tests for auto glass, steel, and walls.A police agency or two adopting it would help wonders too, but again, without guns that will never happen. I