Surat wrote:
As for the first half, what is unreasonable about an officer handcuffing an unknown armed subject when investigating a "man with a gun call" before disarming and ascertaining their status?
By your own words, you've already determined that when you respond to a "man with a gun" call that the "man with a gun" is going to be a threat. You seem to have forgotten that many of us are on YOUR side.
To add suspicion, the subject is found with three firearms and accompanying ammo and until the weapons are removed off his person, fails to state he has a permit. To the posters who are screaming constitutional rights violations, think about this. . .
I'm thinking this is the guy I want on MY side in case of a problem, not a guy I want to annoy unnecessarily.
As a cop and member of the jackbooted oppressor class,
I really hate to say it, but "You got that right!" Please read my words carefully and take them to heart. Maybe you're not too burned-out to change.
I personally like to go home at the end of my shift.
If that's your expectation, you're in the wrong line of work. You sound too smart for running around in a cruiser investigating "barking dogs". Have you considered the Detective's Exam?
If I find a subject that I have been sent to find as a "man with a gun call" I'm NOT going to ask him or her to reach into their pockets to produce a permit or ID. The first thing I'm going to do is secure said hands to ensure that they don't pull out a gun and shoot me. The next thing I am going to do find said gun and secure it. The next thing I'm going to do is figure out what is going on.
Are you saying there's something wrong with *asking* somebody for their carry permit before you've cuffed them, secured them, and secured their weapons?
Do you make people get out of their cars, cuff and secure them, and boot their cars *before* you ask to see their license and registration? No? Why not? Isn't poor operation of a motor vehicle an issue of life and death public safety? What's the difference in threat level? Won't a bad car wreck kill you just as dead as a bullet? So what's your problem that you have to violate somebody's rights simply because they might possess a firearm?
It's that attitude of "us vs them" that you've unfortunately picked up.
As for the second half, I see far too many people in my department, slack with firearms safety.
I'm sorry to hear that. But just becasue your fellow cops are dangerous with guns, doesn't mean us civilians are, too.
Lastly, I feel like a dilettante. I carry a Kel-tec .380 in the summer with a spare mag and a S&W five screw with a Bianchi speed strip in the winter.
Back-ups, or off-duty?
Great, I can see you have no clue how law enforcement operations work. Every single call is answered. BS or not.
And this is a Good Thing.
Someone stated to the effect “All the officers had to do was ask for PTK to produce a permit and leave.”
Yup. Then your valuable time (and apparently that of 11 other officers!) could be better spent preventing *real* crimes.
OK, I tell you what, you volunteer to be the cop to ask that.
Not a chance! I thank you for your service, but I'm certainly not crazy enough to want to be a cop.
Is he gonna pull out a permit or a .S&W .500 and blow your head off? How do you know this is a honest god fearing upright member of the community? Because he “looks ok”? Pray tell, answer that. If he pulls out a gun but I beat him on the draw, now I have to shoot him and I really don't wanna go through that.
Why don't you just "shoot first and ask questions later"?
Hazards of your line of work. Just be glad your'e not in Iraq!
Again, don't violate my rights for your safety/comfort.
How do I know that the permit he produces is still valid?
Here in VA, they have expiration dates, and have to be carried with a valid photo ID. How do you know the photo ID is valid? Or not stolen? Gee, spotting fake IDs is part of policework, no? And if everything appears OK to the best of your abilities, you let him go about his business. It's that simple.
Now I have the guy, who I know is armed but maybe his permit is revoked. . . now I have to effect and arrest of an armed subject.
If his permit APPEARS revoked (and I dunno how you would tell without instant database access), then you still ought to consider that he may not *know* that it has been revoked. Could be a clerical error. He probably had a clean record up to the point of issuance (that "clerical error" works both ways!).
Another aside. To most cops, except maybe newb rookies, criminals lie or evade, while honest people tell the truth. Simple fact. When you refuse to speak with an officer in a open forthright manner on the grounds that "his investigating is violating you god given rights", then you are acting like a suspect. If you get treated like a suspect, don't be surprised.
"If they weren't guilty, they wouldn't be suspects!" Spoken like a true cop.
The point is to do your job the *right* way, even if it sucks to have to do it that way.
As for the inevitable wise elbow that crackd off "where are your papers" etc.,I hope that was a joke because you so don't wanna go there.
Darn right we don't want to go there! "Never Again". The only way to keep from "going there" is to vehemently fight every step in that direction. But II'm guessing you'd welcome it, since it would make your job a little easier...
Gotten so much as a cell phone contract without a social security number?
Yup, and when asked I've told them that they had neither reason nor right to ask for it.
Let me know how well you can write a check without your government issued ID (driver's licence).
Some of us don't write checks, for this very reason. Cash and money orders for everything.
Ever had your print's taken for a job application or the like? Don't even get me started on AFIS.
As an owner and individual manufacturer of several NFA firearms, I've been thoroughly and repeatedly fingerprinted. I guess BATFE expects my fingerprints to be DIFFERENT on the next application, otherwise they're just wasting our tax dollars by asking for them over and over again.
Been in the military and had your DNA collected (mouth swab)?
Military service effectively erases any individual rights.
Yeah, all the time - over the phone, online, or to buy gasoline. Funny how I don't need a photo ID, govt-issued or not, to do so.