I have an old Remington bolt action .22 rifle that fires (without engaging the trigger) when I close the bolt about 1 out of 5 times. I discovered the problem while it was pointed down range thankfully. It was a malfunction of the firearm that had nothing to do with keeping my finger away from the trigger. For fun, I finished a box of ammo with the rifle just to see how often it would malfunction. I suppose you could say that I was negligent for not realizing the rifle had a broken part, but even afterwards I could not spot a problem with the parts (though I am sure a gunsmith could have).
Have you ever experienced an AD or ND?
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wally
Member
Voted other, have had two in 35+ years of shooting
Hang fire. Was shooting Remington bulk pack and getting a lot of duds, was about to do tap-rack-bang and the gun fired as I reached to pull back the slide. Scared the bjeezes out of me but the gun was pointed down range more are less in the vicinity of the target.
I'd only heard of this happening, usually with old surplus ammo. I've quit buying Remington bulk pack because the of the high dud rate and far too many rim blowouts.
Slam fire. When I first got my Uzi I had a slam-fire while clearing a stovepipe. I didn't realize that the striker wasn't locked back and when I partially retracted the bolt, shook out the empty, and let the bolt go forward it fired! Take home lesson -- guns who's operating principal has been changed to meet import restrictions need special attention! From that point on I drop the mag and fully cycle the bolt to clear even the most obvious stovepipe on semi auto rifles. Again the gun was pointed safely down range when it happened.
Hang fire. Was shooting Remington bulk pack and getting a lot of duds, was about to do tap-rack-bang and the gun fired as I reached to pull back the slide. Scared the bjeezes out of me but the gun was pointed down range more are less in the vicinity of the target.
I'd only heard of this happening, usually with old surplus ammo. I've quit buying Remington bulk pack because the of the high dud rate and far too many rim blowouts.
Slam fire. When I first got my Uzi I had a slam-fire while clearing a stovepipe. I didn't realize that the striker wasn't locked back and when I partially retracted the bolt, shook out the empty, and let the bolt go forward it fired! Take home lesson -- guns who's operating principal has been changed to meet import restrictions need special attention! From that point on I drop the mag and fully cycle the bolt to clear even the most obvious stovepipe on semi auto rifles. Again the gun was pointed safely down range when it happened.
JohnMarston
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I shot small caliber rifles as a child and have been in the handguns for the last six years, I have never had an AD or ND.
Wolfeye
Member
I voted "other" for no. Been shooting for 29 years with no incidents. Granted, I might shoot at most 200 rounds a year and shoot mostly revolvers & bolt-action rifles, but I'm still proud of that record.
The closest I've come was one incident with a paintball gun. I'd had a ball burst inside the barrel, and the easiest way to clean it during a game is to 1) squeegee the barrel, then 2) cover the end of the barrel & dry-fire once to force the paint out of the muzzle brake porting. For step 2 I tipped the gun to prevent a ball from feeding & fired, but I'd forgotten that I'd already chambered a round. My palm had an ugly welt for a few days.
The closest I've come was one incident with a paintball gun. I'd had a ball burst inside the barrel, and the easiest way to clean it during a game is to 1) squeegee the barrel, then 2) cover the end of the barrel & dry-fire once to force the paint out of the muzzle brake porting. For step 2 I tipped the gun to prevent a ball from feeding & fired, but I'd forgotten that I'd already chambered a round. My palm had an ugly welt for a few days.
i had lent a relative my mosin 91/30 for the day when he brought it back the weapon was how i gave it to him, magazine tray open and bolt out of the firearm. I tore down the bolt cleaned it and when i was done i put it in the weapon for a functions test next thing you know it i had a .308 bounce off floor stud,through my door, bounce off a ceiling fan and put a nice deep scratch to my new table i still have the pices of the round now i ALWAYS clean a weapon barrel first .( NOTE: a round got stuck in the chamber when my cousin was shooting and he bent/broke the ejector trying to force it out and didnt tell me about it)
ScratchnDent
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Nope.
buck460XVR
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When I was 12 years old, and squirrel hunting, I took the safety off my .22 when a squirrel peaked it's head around a tree. It saw my movement when I raised the gun and went down a hole. I still had my finger in the trigger guard when I rested the gun back down in my lap and for some reason I squeezed the trigger. Thank God I had the gun pointed at the ground and all it did was scared the crap outta me. That was 44 years ago, but seems like just yesterday.
omegaflame
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I watched a person next to me's S&W 9mm semi-auto go full automatic when he put in a new third-party chinese-made magazine.
I think it got damaged though =/
I think it got damaged though =/
I don't think a mechanical unintentional discharge is quite an AD. Accident implies somebody screwed up while handling it. If the seer breaks and there is no firing pin block (or it fails too) that's not an "accident" that's a "**** happens"
jonmerritt
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no not in 35 years so far.
omegaflame
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I don't know but it scared the hell out of him. We were shooting steel targets at the time so it sounded really cool.
I have electronic muffs and he was talking with someone else about something happening to the firing pin.
If the firing pin got stuck forward or bent in such a way it couldn't retract it could it go full auto?
orionengnr
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Hate to admit it, but yes, one of each. Both were more than 20 years ago, but both are burned into my memory.
--The AD was the first AR15 I ever owned. I strongly suspect that the previous owner had "worked on" it. The first time I took it to the range, it fired ~3 rounds with the first trigger pull. I got a stern talking-to from the RO, took it home, did a little reading, and replaced all of the fire control parts. Worked fine after that.
--The ND was absolutely my fault. HK P7, put a round into the wall one night while doing dry-fire practice. Still not sure what was going through my mind at the time, but it left an impression that lasts until this day.
--The AD was the first AR15 I ever owned. I strongly suspect that the previous owner had "worked on" it. The first time I took it to the range, it fired ~3 rounds with the first trigger pull. I got a stern talking-to from the RO, took it home, did a little reading, and replaced all of the fire control parts. Worked fine after that.
--The ND was absolutely my fault. HK P7, put a round into the wall one night while doing dry-fire practice. Still not sure what was going through my mind at the time, but it left an impression that lasts until this day.
Yes, a mechanical failure that cause an unintended discharge is the definition of an AD. "Negligent" implies that somebody screwed up. "Accidental" implies that it was not intentional or negligent.
jhco
Member
Yes.
Hanzo581
Member
Neither for me, but I agree that it can happen to anyone no matter how careful you are. No one is perfect 100% of the time.
ND
I took a young man around age 19 to the range following a hunter education class. This young man who is a member of THR noticed the pictures of my sons deer I was showing to fellow instructors. Anyway he knew I was on THR by the pics. Anyway to the young man to the range and eventually took him deer hunting. The next spring he called me and asked if I would take him and his cousin to the range. I agreed and the two of them and my two boys and I shot for 2 1/2-3 hours no problems. No unsafe acts no reminders of rules nothing. We finished up and were leaving I stopped my truck to unlock the gate and they pulled up behind me. He walks up with a Ruger GP100 and asked me to check out the trigger. Apparently it had been hanging up. I took control of the gun and did not check the cylinder. I cycled the hammer back and forth several times and the trigger felt fine. So I pulled the trigger to dry fire the weapon. Boom the darn thing was loaded and I just about pissed myself. I was keeping the gun pointed in a safe direction luckily I paid attention to at least some firearms rules. I powder burnt the crap out my forearm and wrist and scared the heck out of all of us.
Long story short it was not the guns fault, it was not my students fault it was my stupid act of complacincy that almost got someone killed.:banghead:
Kinda hard to call yourself a knowledgable firearms instructor when you make stupid mistakes like this.
I took a young man around age 19 to the range following a hunter education class. This young man who is a member of THR noticed the pictures of my sons deer I was showing to fellow instructors. Anyway he knew I was on THR by the pics. Anyway to the young man to the range and eventually took him deer hunting. The next spring he called me and asked if I would take him and his cousin to the range. I agreed and the two of them and my two boys and I shot for 2 1/2-3 hours no problems. No unsafe acts no reminders of rules nothing. We finished up and were leaving I stopped my truck to unlock the gate and they pulled up behind me. He walks up with a Ruger GP100 and asked me to check out the trigger. Apparently it had been hanging up. I took control of the gun and did not check the cylinder. I cycled the hammer back and forth several times and the trigger felt fine. So I pulled the trigger to dry fire the weapon. Boom the darn thing was loaded and I just about pissed myself. I was keeping the gun pointed in a safe direction luckily I paid attention to at least some firearms rules. I powder burnt the crap out my forearm and wrist and scared the heck out of all of us.
Long story short it was not the guns fault, it was not my students fault it was my stupid act of complacincy that almost got someone killed.:banghead:
Kinda hard to call yourself a knowledgable firearms instructor when you make stupid mistakes like this.
CoastieShep
Member
Never have, and hopefully never will. Never can be sure, just take the proper precautions to make it as unlikely as possible.
Gottahaveone
Member
Had a ND about 20 years ago. I had been carrying a 1911 with a short trigger in condition 2 for a couple of years. Then I changed it out for a Colt National Match with a long trigger. About two weeks later it happened.
I always lower the hammer by using the thumb and index fingers from my weak hand to pinch it from the sides and slowly let it down. I went to do what I had done 1000 times before, and the longer trigger was engaged just earlier enough in the process that I clearly felt the hammer slip from between my thumb and index because I wasn't quite finished tightening the grip.
From habit it was pointing in the safest direction that I had accessible while sitting at my kitchen table so the only result was a Speer 200gr "flying ashtray" flattening out on the tile floor and burying itself in the wall floor sill. That, and one seriously freaked out puddy tat. For years after, I could rack the slide on an auto and he would quickly slink out of the room while throwing dirty looks over his shoulder at me...
I always lower the hammer by using the thumb and index fingers from my weak hand to pinch it from the sides and slowly let it down. I went to do what I had done 1000 times before, and the longer trigger was engaged just earlier enough in the process that I clearly felt the hammer slip from between my thumb and index because I wasn't quite finished tightening the grip.
From habit it was pointing in the safest direction that I had accessible while sitting at my kitchen table so the only result was a Speer 200gr "flying ashtray" flattening out on the tile floor and burying itself in the wall floor sill. That, and one seriously freaked out puddy tat. For years after, I could rack the slide on an auto and he would quickly slink out of the room while throwing dirty looks over his shoulder at me...
Curator
Member
Some shooters can claim to be "above" this possibility with their superior equipment and knowedge. Accidental (AD) discharges can and do happen. The more you shoot the more likely this is to happen to you. Most of the time this is due to a fierarm defect, breakage, or some freak occurance. If your muzzle is always pointed in a safe direction no one gets hurt. Negligent discharges (ND) are carelessness and/or stupidity.
My brand new Remington 700 discharged when I released the safety after a day's hunting. I had carefully pointed it into a large pile of dirt about 10 feet away so no one got hurt. My finger was no where near the trigger. I tried this again several times a few days later and about one in 10 times it would fire. I sent it back to Remington who claimed to have fixed it. I still have it but never use the safety, opening the bolt instead. I believe this incident has made me intensely aware of muzzle direction and the possibility of accidents.
My brand new Remington 700 discharged when I released the safety after a day's hunting. I had carefully pointed it into a large pile of dirt about 10 feet away so no one got hurt. My finger was no where near the trigger. I tried this again several times a few days later and about one in 10 times it would fire. I sent it back to Remington who claimed to have fixed it. I still have it but never use the safety, opening the bolt instead. I believe this incident has made me intensely aware of muzzle direction and the possibility of accidents.
rozziboy18
Member
both here too
1. i had a gunshow trigger job done to a dpms 308lr, one full mag into a target later with one pull of the trigger, i bought a new trigger group.
2 this one goes out to brian cor*** whom shot his bed while attemping to holster his kimber, on his wedding night!!!!!!
i haven had a ad "yet" and i pray to god i never do!!!
1. i had a gunshow trigger job done to a dpms 308lr, one full mag into a target later with one pull of the trigger, i bought a new trigger group.
2 this one goes out to brian cor*** whom shot his bed while attemping to holster his kimber, on his wedding night!!!!!!
i haven had a ad "yet" and i pray to god i never do!!!
dougw47
Member
AD or ND?
Had two Rem. 700's, Rem. Mowhawk 600, and Rem. 788 bought in the 70's and 80's that would discharge sometimes when the safety was moved to off. Never touching the trigger, just the safety...go figure.
Remington denied any problem and told me not to send it to them.
Bought a 1911 at a gun show for a cheap price, went full auto on the first mag.
Bought an old High Standard .22 rifle, had broken firing pin, went full auto, stuff like that...as someone said...stuff happens, but I have had more than my share.
Had two Rem. 700's, Rem. Mowhawk 600, and Rem. 788 bought in the 70's and 80's that would discharge sometimes when the safety was moved to off. Never touching the trigger, just the safety...go figure.
Remington denied any problem and told me not to send it to them.
Bought a 1911 at a gun show for a cheap price, went full auto on the first mag.
Bought an old High Standard .22 rifle, had broken firing pin, went full auto, stuff like that...as someone said...stuff happens, but I have had more than my share.
When I was a kid, I was deer hunting with my dad. Getting the guns loaded up I chambered a round in my Winchester 94. It was very cold outside in Northern MI. I then went to drop the hammer down to half-cock, and my thumb slipped. Bang. The gun was pointed in a safe direction, and nobody was hurt. I did not get a buck that season, I think it was bad karma.
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