Let's be honest for a bit...

[Certaindeaf]

Two reloads is really just over the top and unnecessary. Kinda like when you drive to the corner store with more than a quarter gallon of gas in your tank.. very inneficient and narrow thinking to think that that extra gallon or tank will do you any good whatsoever in the grand scheme of things. As a matter of fact, just walk naked.

 

[Bubba613]

The idea of carrying an extra mag in case the first one fails is absurd. It will take the rest of someone's life to diagnose a mag failure and change the mag. Yeah yeah you've seen your buddy do it at the range in 3 seconds. That isn't real life. Real life is 8 seconds minimum.
I feel about someone carrying multiple spare mags about the same way I feel about someone carrying in a drop thigh holster.

 

[jeepnik]

Just something I've noticed among gun carrying folks...

I read all the time that people will carry their sidearm PLUS one or two extra mags or speed loaders.

Is this really necessary? The vast vast majority of shooting incidents are over in 2 shots or less...why do some folks feel the need to carry possibly 45 or more rounds on them?

I would propose that if you end up in any incident where you would actually need to use 3 mags, you've either put yourself in a bad situation and you probably won't make it out unharmed/alive...or you're a terrible shot and probably shouldn't be carrying (hypothetical "you", not directed at anyone).

Anyone want to share their personal reason for feeling the need to carry that much ammo?

Probably not. Then again, most folks carry a spare tire. And I for one, haven't had a flat (were talking on road here) in decades. But then, I keep my vehicle (including tires) in very good condition.

Look at the this way, "tis better to have something and not need it than need it and not have it"" In other words, it would suck to be found dead with an empty gun and no evidence you had spare ammo.

 

[Lawdawg45]

The idea of carrying an extra mag in case the first one fails is absurd. It will take the rest of someone's life to diagnose a mag failure and change the mag. Yeah yeah you've seen your buddy do it at the range in 3 seconds. That isn't real life. Real life is 8 seconds minimum.
I feel about someone carrying multiple spare mags about the same way I feel about someone carrying in a drop thigh holster.

I won't disagree, but I'd still carry an extra mag (especially for a 1911) and at least die trying to reload, rather than just throwing my hands up and say "you win".

LD

 

[Shear_stress]

When I carry I carry one pistol with no spare magazines. To me, the gun alone is the fire extinguisher, spare tire, matchbook in the wilderness . . . whatever you want to compare it to.

It all comes down to where you draw the line. I am a big believer in the right of self defense but there's only so far I'm willing to compromise my daily life to prepare for a subset of a subset of possible situations. The need to defend myself at all is the worst case scenario and I believe I have the tools to prevail in all but the most vanishingly unlikely events. This is my choice and I respect the rights of others to make their own.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Bubba613: The idea of carrying an extra mag in case the first one fails is absurd. It will take the rest of someone's life to diagnose a mag failure and change the mag. Yeah yeah you've seen your buddy do it at the range in 3 seconds. That isn't real life. Real life is 8 seconds minimum.

Defensive pistol training involves drawing while moving, presenting the firearm, firing rapidly, and reloading. There are reasons for that.

People who do not train and practice often and gain considerable proficiency may well find their draw-and-fire times too long to "survive" a rapid attack at "Tueller" distance. Try it using motorized targets and see how you do

Adding the step of replacing magazines makes the drill even harder and most probably impossible. A second firearm, or "New York reload," would be better.

But there are times when replacing the magazine would be most helpful, if the shooter is sufficiently proficient to do it very quickly indeed.

I very rarely cary and extra magazine, but I do not contend that my practice is prudent.

 

[KenW.]

When off-duty since I don't live or travel into areas where there are the infamous "packs of gangstas" mentioned elsewhere in this thread; I feel quite comfortable with my J-Frame and one speed strip.

Were I not comfortable, I'd be carrying my XDm40 compact with a spare 16-round mag.

 

[golden]

Why ask for a problem

I usually carry a small pocket pistol off duty, so my ammo supply in the gun is 7 to 8 rounds, depending on the gun.
If you believe you will be in an average gunfight, then 5 shots will be all you need.
I plan for having to deal with at least two assailants, I am a mail of average height and stocky build, so I would not be the first choice for someone my size mug.
I would expect to fire at least 4 shots and maybe as many as 6, which is what my agency trains us to fire in a failure to stop drill, 2 to the center mass and 1 to the head.
Also, I expect that I will be nervous and full of adrenalin, which does not make for good shooting, expecially with a small gun with poor sights, my SIG 232 which has night sights is an exception.
With good shooting, I have already emptied a 5 shot revolver and have only 1 or 2 rounds left in a semi-auto.
So what do you do if they do not drop when hit or there are 3 or 4 robbers.
NOT A CHANCE YOU SAY!
Wrong, one of my coworkers was headed home one night and stopped at a light. The car behind lightly bumber the rear of his car and when he got out to see if they was any damage, for young males got out of the car and started for him. In the dark, they did not see his uniform, but when he pulled his GLOCK, they dived into the car and took off. He is a large man, over 6 feet tall and heavily built, with many years experience on the southern border. What if a female or male standing 5"6" got out instead?

On the other hand, supposed you are not the average target or your assaillant figures that there is safety in numbers. No one ever said robbers and rapists are smart or brave. Usually they are lazy, ignorant and stupid or they would be out working for a living like the rest of us.

Also, many, many, many gunfights (and fights not involving firearms) take place where at least one of the participants has been drinking alcohol. If you think that 5 shots of a medium power or even low power round is enough, then so be it. I have had to deal with drunks and they worry more than drug addicts, since they are unpredictable. One could be the funny drunk who want to sleep it off and the other could be the violent one. Just ask wives who are beaten, what it is like.

I have only come close to a mugging once, two characters walked up to me when I was waiting for my wife, outside a mall. One asked me the time, then they split up to come up on either side of me. That was like a splash of cold water in the face.
I turned my weak side to them and reached into my pocket, where my gun was (I am an LEO) and the two of them stopped in mid step. They knew exactly what I was doing and what would happen next. I never pulled my gun, but they just turned around and left. Fine with me.

I always try to carry a gun with at least 8 rounds and one mag for a reload or if the gun jams. If it jams, I am not going to TAP, RAP, BANG. I am going to pull the mag out like a hot coal, rack the slide twice and shove a fresh mag in. That is what my experience has shown to be quickest.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Jim

 

[cheesebigot]

I tend to think carrying a firearm is similar to packing for a trip. I try to only pack the things I think I will need while balancing the burden of having to carry it all.

I may be able to find use for all the excessive things I may pack, but at what cost?

The aforementioned spare tire analogy seems most fitting especially given Murphy's Law. If the (perceived) burden of a spare mag can be tolerated, then I should think the payoff is inexpensive and invaluable.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I read all the time that people will carry their sidearm PLUS one or two extra mags or speed loaders.

Is this really necessary? The vast vast majority of shooting incidents are over in 2 shots or less...why do some folks feel the need to carry possibly 45 or more rounds on them?

The Achilles heel of the automatic pistol is the magazine. Always carry a spare.

And ........................................

Why not carry a spare?

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by KenW: When off-duty since I don't live or travel into areas where there are the infamous "packs of gangstas" mentioned elsewhere in this thread; ...

I never go into such places.

But I think it would be imprudent to not plan on at least two assailants.

...I feel quite comfortable with my J-Frame and one speed strip.

Read Post #7, and study the link contained therein. I have retired my J-Frame from primary carry.

If I were being rushed by two violent attackers in close quarters, and if after one had been engaged the other were to continue, I do not think that a speed strip would really do me much good.

And as Bubba613 opines, neither would an extra magazine. The extra magazine comes into play when you have at least some room, some cover or concealment, and perhaps other favorable circumstances.

 

[VAPOPO]

If carrying my 1911 I carry 2 extra 8 round mags, It helps to balance the belt and adds to my personal security. I also carry an extra 17rd mag for my SR9C when that pistol gets the nod, 2 is 1 and 1 is none. I try to take Mr. Murphy into account.

 

[mhuxtable]

Thanks everyone...definitely points I hadn't thought about.

 

[guyfromohio]

Are all of the folks who arm up with ammo carrying at all times? I go to the store, I slide my 642 in my waistband. If I felt the need to pack a handful of ammo I'd either A) not leave the house or B) choose not to carry. Just curious. I'm sure the responses will be 100% to the affirmative, but really?

 

[orionengnr]

Okay, I will...

The vast vast majority of shooting incidents are over in 2 shots or less

Source or citation, please...?

The closest I have heard is the old "3 rounds in 3 seconds at 3 feet"...but I have not seen one of that type recently.

Multiple BGs are becoming more common...and some people who used to be happy with a five-shot revolver are re-thinking that strategy.

If you carry a semi-auto, the magazine is the source of most malfunctions. The easiest, most likely cure for this is to swap mags.

I am perfectly happy with a semi-auto with 7-9 rounds, and one spare mag. Not because I pan to use them all (I don't) and not because I plan on having a malfunction (I only carry pistols that have proven themselves over many many rounds) but because the stakes of failing to prepare for an unlikely happenstance are unacceptable.

Are you familiar with the Swiss Cheese theory? If you have an aviation background, you are...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model

 

[Ehtereon11B]

It also depends on what you are carrying I think. If you are sporting a 5 shot .38 Jframe, a speed reload might be an option. But if you have a 15 round full size Glock, you might not feel the need for a spare magazine.

 

[TimboKhan]

I disagree with 8 seconds, at east as a general rule. Moving deliberately, I can do a mag change in under 5 seconds. Now, I am obviously not factoring in stress, position, injuries or whatever else, and maybe that's where I am not understanding this point.

 

[SEE IT LIKE A NATIVE]

I respect everyones own reasons to carry what they want to. The way I see it is that it could be harmful to me to carry extra mags. I read a lot about how it is dangerous to carry reloads or handloads because of the evil procesuctor making you out to be a gun nut "making their own ammo". Well on the same note, if I ever have to use my gun in real life I rather not have to explain to anyone why I had 36 extra rounds on me. If the press got a hold of that it could surely be spun that you are just looking for a reason to shoot someone, after all why would anyone carry 40 rounds on them unless they were a blood thirsty nutjob (I don't personally feel that way but could easily see the media or prosecutor spinning it)

They are only "extra rounds if you don't need them ! I would rather take the chance on having to explain why I was carrying extra ammo , than have someone else explain to my kids that I ran out of bullets ! Kevin

 

[kellmark]

I normally have a small semi-auto available with one backup mag. It is true that you never know when you might need a defense and where and what the scenario will be. It could be at night in a bad neighborhood or in daylight in a good one. (That is where the thieves go in the daytime).

I had one experience where I believe a gun saved me from who knows what. Many years ago when my kids were young I was driving to school to pick one of them up during the day. A car behind me started getting too close so I slowed to let him pass. He passed on the grass off the road on the right, acting like a crazy man and screaming, then in a few blocks, stopped in front of me still screaming. I tried to back up and get away but there was someone else behind me. I couldn't move. He got out of his car and came at me on the driver's side, still screaming. He may have been drunk or on drugs. I had the small semi auto ready with a round in the chamber, but had it low by the seat where he couldn't see it until he got right up to my car. When he came up, he saw it and I told him very forcefully that he should get back in his car. I did not point it at him, but he clearly saw that I had it and I was ready if I had to use it. He had an immediate change of heart, got back in his car and left, and I was able to leave in the opposite direction. No harm. It was one of those 90% of cases where simply the sight of a firearm by a BG made a big difference and no one was harmed. Especially me. As far as a spare mag, I had that immediately available also, and was glad that I had it, just in case, as this guy was obviously under the influence of something and he did not have good intentions.

I also want to comment on the disaster scenario. Look at what is happening in the Northeast right now after Hurricane Sandy. I guarantee you that if you need self defense in such a scenario, you would need to carry backup ammo or a backup gun.

I live in the South and we have hurricanes. When we have a severe one, in the aftermath, the police are not there, the phones don't work, and the streets are blocked. And if you are out there and get stuck, with a car flooded or broken down, you definitely want more than one mag, or one gun. People get very desperate, and there are predators who will take the easy targets and any opportunity and they do often operate in groups to loot. That is my experience. Better to have the belt and suspenders as they say.

 

[Old Dog]

Gosh, I wish I lived in such serene, peaceful villages such as the ones in which some of you apparently reside ...

At any rate, I'm simply trying to be prepared for the possibility of The Big One hitting while I'm at work, or across the Sound visiting family, or maybe just down I-5 during my Cabela's run. Who can say when they might be stranded 50 mile away from home, wishing that they had more than a S&W 442 with one spare speed strip, a half-bottle of Dasani and a Powerbar in the car?

I noted that I live on the biggest fault line in the Western Hemisphere; no one acknowledged that post, yet many get bogged down in discussions of how many rounds they'll need for their gunfight.

Whatever. And yeah, if you carry a semi-auto and don't carry spare mags, shame on you.

 

[scaatylobo]

@ old dog

I too belong to the club of your's.

I would not want my last thought to be "Gee,but I have SO many guns & ammo ---- at home".

Just like the guy that shoots his 1911 at IPSC all weekend and goes about all week = UNARMED.

I hope he only gets attacked at the range.

I am of the FIRM belief that no one has a clue PRIOR to leaving the house that day as to IF they will need a gun.

And if you NEED a gun,bet you want LOTS of reloads available.

 

[holdencm9]

kellmark, did you cut him off or something? Yeesh! j/k

Road ragers aside, I think it depends on your situation. Hurricanes are generally anticipated, and more of a home-defense problem anyway.

In the midwest where I live, tornadoes are a real threat, but even if one tore through my town and I was at work, I don't think it would be mass chaos without the rule of law. And even then, when a storm cell like that is on the way, we usually know about it.

Earthquakes, on the other hand, are not easily forecast (just ask the scientists in Italy :banghead: who are now in prison ) and in theory "the big one" could come along at any time and really wreak havoc. If you live near a fault (and keep in mind, California is not the only state that can have a big earthquake...the new madrid hotspot is centered around western tennesee/kentucky and southern illinois) then you may need a veritable arsenal to fight your way home. It is still incredibly unlikely but unlikely does not equal impossible.

If something even worse happens, and civilization really starts to collapse around you during your 9-5 job, then you will be glad for those extra couple magazines. But that starts to get into SHTF territory so we should avoid that topic.

I think the point stands, that for 99.999% of situations, for civilians, one gun with a full mag will be enough. But again, how hard is it to slip an extra mag into your coat pocket? It is zero-risk, so even if the reward is .0001% of happening, i can't knock the practice. Unlike trunk guns which we tackled in another thread, where I think the risks are definitely not negligible.

Everything we do is a risk/reward study.

 

[kellmark]

Holdencm9.

No, I didn't cut him off. I really don't know what his problem was. But I don't try to be confrontational, especially where I live, as you don't know what people have with them or what they might do.

It reminded me of a time at a boat ramp. I had brought my small boat in at the end of a dock and was waiting my turn to be able to get my boat out. A family in a small runabout cuts in front of me and the two adults start screaming at me. I am not one to look for trouble and things at crowded boat ramps can get out of hand, so I just told them to go ahead and waited. They continued ranting and screaming at themselves and everything around them. They finally got the boat out. They didn't know that I had a gun in my boat. I just stayed quiet and let them rant.

Not all of the people you encounter in life are rational. That is one reason I feel it is important to have a defense.

 

[holdencm9]

Not all of the people you encounter in life are rational. That is one reason I feel it is important to have a defense.

Indeed. Actually, I'd say very few people you encounter are 100% rational. Most are quite governed by emotions and some are downright crazy.

 

[Sport45]

Quote:
Not all of the people you encounter in life are rational. That is one reason I feel it is important to have a defense.

Indeed. Actually, I'd say very few people you encounter are 100% rational. Most are quite governed by emotions and some are downright crazy.

THR members being the obvious exception.