Let's be honest for a bit...

[lefteyedom]

I guess I should give a real answer. Kel-tec 380, 6 rds in the weapon, no reloads, 1911a1 45acp, 8rds in the weapon and two 10 rd mags on my person.

The ugly truth:

Is that I carry a kel-tec 380 darn near 24/7, Load with a 6 round magazine, with an empty chamber. Yes, if you must know it is load with 95 gr Remington FMJ. Considering that it is most often not carried in a holster, the empty chamber is my personal safety.

This minimal level of protection, carried 24/7, combined the low local threat it is enough for me to feel comfortable.

When things are froggy or the need is felt, I carry a 1911a1, 45acp with 200grn hp, 8 rounds in weapon (7+1) and two 10 round mags. This is real weight and difficult to conceal in warm weather.

My pistol's main job is to get me (and loved ones) out of harms way, to safety and if needed to more effective weaponry. Situation awareness is the most important tool in self defense.


Regardless of what type of pistol I am carrying, there is ample firepower in my vehicle.

 

[smalls]

I don't find the weight of one extra mag to be a burden at all. My biggest issue with carrying one is that it jabs me in the side occasionally. I usually have to shift it when I get into my car.

 

[Ehtereon11B]

I don't ever expect to use or need a second mag. Then again most of us don't expect to need or use a handgun. But many of us carry anyway. The jam/malfunction reason has been beaten to death so I won't add to it. The second reason was hinted as just in case you are walking down an alley and are against 20 thugs. Unlikely but possible, maybe.

The third reason I can think of is: Life is expensive. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Adrenaline induced trigger happy you will go through more rounds than you think you fire. Better to carry a little extra weight for that just in case moment. In my first dismounted firefight in Afghanistan I went through 30 rounds in my M4 faster than I realized because like most people I try to keep a round count in my head, regardless of the weapon. Different circumstances yes, but if it ever comes down to it, you will enjoy carrying that second mag.

 

[PabloJ]

I don't find the weight of one extra mag to be a burden at all. My biggest issue with carrying one is that it jabs me in the side occasionally. I usually have to shift it when I get into my car.

Walmart carries made in USA single mag pouches that can be carried horizontally to the belt line.

 

[Sport45]

Law enforcement, security personnel, and military have different needs than ordinary citizens who carry.

For the ordinary citizens I believe each should decide for themselves what they need to feel secure.

I do not carry any reloads and that doesn't concern me a bit.

 

[Drail]

Gangbangers are a very good reason to carry reloads. They like to travel in packs.

 

[helitack32f1]

The chances of needing an extra mag is very very low, but if you do need one you need it very very badly.

I can't really add much to the excellent answers that have been given so far but this quote sums it all up very well. ^^

I just recently started carrying a 15 round extra mag to supplement the 13 rounds already in my G23. Just because I can, no real reason but the continuing media focus on recent mass shootings makes me want to be able to respond if ever necessary, as unlikely as that is.

As for needing an extra mag being very unlikely, well, we that carry concealed have already made the decision to prepare for a very unlikely scenario, that being the need to defend ourselves with a concealed firearm. We are already masters of preparing for the unlikely, why not be even more prepared for the unlikely?

 

[smalls]

Walmart carries made in USA single mag pouches that can be carried horizontally to the belt line.

I've seen a Blachawk! one there, but it was vertical. I also prefer leather and open top. I may eventually invest in a leather horizontal mag pouch, but for now I just deal with the occasional jab.

 

[Lawdawg45]

Gangbangers are a very good reason to carry reloads. They like to travel in packs.

Exactly. 2 or 3 hood rats with high capacity handguns, you with a 5 shot revolver, understanding accuracy can drop by as much as 50% in a firefight. It ain't rocket science.

LD

 

[The_Armed_Therapist]

I've gone my whole life without ever needing a gun. How is that justification for not having them? Similarly, if encounters rarely require 3, 2, or even a single shot, how is that justification for not carrying extra mags or back-ups? If we're going to be "honest," then we don't really need to carry anything.

I carry a primary, a back-up, and a spare mag for each.

 

[Skribs]

I don't remember the thread or the study, but someone did show statistics of shootings and # of attackers. It was something like (and I'm rounding so it will total to 101%) 55% 2 attackers, 25% 1, 20% 3, and 1% 4 or more.

So yeah, you might only need "one shot for the first guy, the rest soil themselves and run"...or you might need several shots each against a number of determined attackers.

 

[orionengnr]

The ugly truth:
Is that I carry a kel-tec 380 darn near 24/7, Load with a 6 round magazine, with an empty chamber.

Yep, that is seriously ugly...but, your life, your choice.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...I read a lot about how it is dangerous to carry reloads or handloads because of the evil procesuctor making you out to be a gun nut "making their own ammo". Well on the same note, if I ever have to use my gun in real life I rather not have to explain to anyone why I had 36 extra rounds on me. If the press got a hold of that it could surely be spun that you are just looking for a reason to shoot someone,...

I don't really worry about that. Yes, I might have to explain carrying one or two extra magazines, but they might be needed, especially in case of a malfunction, and carrying extra magazines is standard practice as I've been trained. And I know expert witnesses who are both credible and will support me.

On the other hand, I won't carry handloads.

 

[jc57]

For me it depends on the gun and the situation. In all honesty, I don't think I'll ever fire a single shot or even need to draw in a self defense situation. From that perspective it's foolish for me to even carry a gun. However, I do choose to carry one on occasion, foolish or not, because I have the right and a permit to do so.

Now depending on the firearm, I may or may not carry any extra ammo. When carrying a .38 revolver, I'll normally drop a speed strip with 6 more rounds in a pocket. Do I think I'll need it? No, but it's so small I just really don't notice it so why not.

I have a medium-sized .380 auto I sometimes carry. The single-stack mag for it isn't much larger than a couple of packs of gum, so again, no real hassle to just drop a spare in my pocket.

If I'm carrying a double-stack auto (Glock 26 for example) then I tend not to carry a spare mag, because it's much more of a brick to carry along, and I'm pretty comfortable with 12 rounds of 9mm being enough.

So it's more a matter of convenience than sheer logical planning for every possible eventuality.

 

[Shoot66]

As jc57 said in his first two lines.
For the rest, I carry a double stack 9mm, I do not carry a spare mag.

 

[guyfromohio]

I certainly don't criticize those who pack spares, and flashlights, and etc... whatever is in the gun, is what I have on me. Whether that's five .38s or 8 9mm.

 

[TAKtical]

After a certain race related case, one elderly gentleman was approached by 25-30 people carrying baseball bats, sticks, knives etc after asking some kids to stop playing in his yard. There are also gang initiation killings and beatings to be concerned with as well as riots and looting in emergency/disaster situations. I dont think I NEED to carry 60 rounds but I also dont think RKBA has anything to do with NEED. Im kind of curious why you NEED to start an argumentative thread in the form of a question just to state your opinion.

 

[Lawdawg45]

I don't really worry about that. Yes, I might have to explain carrying one or two extra magazines, but they might be needed, especially in case of a malfunction, and carrying extra magazines is standard practice as I've been trained. And I know expert witnesses who are both credible and will support me.

On the other hand, I won't carry handloads.

Totally agree. We had a similar discussion on another thread a few months back and I took some heat for suggesting that the "Tactards" would be crucified in court, but I must say that even the ones I've seen questioned in court, came out on top in a criminal setting, wrongful death litigation is a whole different ball game. What some would say is absurd, is used on a frequent basis in court. Why did you carry a .45 instead of a .22LR? Why did you have extra magazines, did you anticipate killing more than one person? Why did you feel the need to join a shooting club? Why did you select ________brand of ammo with JHP's? Why do you reload instead of buying factory ammo, did they not cause enough damage for you?

As idiotic as these questions are, they're all questions I've heard in court. I'm not saying don't carry reloads, BUG's, knives, flash lights, Kubaton's, ASP batons, Stun Guns, T handled knives or even Chinese throwing stars, just be advised that a group of potentially ignorant and uninformed civilians will be your judge and jury when you take "that" shot.

LD

 

[jmorris]

I don't think anyone has ever lost a gun fight because they had too much ammo. Can't say the reverse is true. I don't carry extra mags much though.

 

[scaatylobo]

@ lawdawg 45

I agree as to most of your premise.

So would it not be wise [ especially in a litigious society ] to carry what a police officer is assigned,then if asked WHY you carry *********,your explanation is that the same ISSUED to the LEO's.

And you as a LAW ABIDING citizen just wanted to stay withing the statutes.

Then it would be up to the Op-For attorney [ be he state/federal/local ] to attack the police choices.

A attack I seriously doubt any would attempt.

Least that is this retired LEO's view,and yes I have been to court a 'few' times.

 

[C0untZer0]

I live in Illinois - no right to carry. But one thing Illinois does have is a good Justifiable Homocide law.

I know there are some people who get indignant unless the phrases "Castle Doctrine" and "Stand your Ground" are in the statutes, but Illinois has a good law and if someone were perpetrating a crime against someone and the intended victim fired their firearm and killed the perpatrator, no litagation could be started up. It wouldn't matter if a .500 S&W Magnum or a .22 was used. And there would be no need to try to mimic whatever local police are using to create some foundation for a defense.

 

[Lawdawg45]

I agree as to most of your premise.

So would it not be wise [ especially in a litigious society ] to carry what a police officer is assigned,then if asked WHY you carry *********,your explanation is that the same ISSUED to the LEO's.

And you as a LAW ABIDING citizen just wanted to stay withing the statutes.

Then it would be up to the Op-For attorney [ be he state/federal/local ] to attack the police choices.

A attack I seriously doubt any would attempt.

Least that is this retired LEO's view,and yes I have been to court a 'few' times.

I also have no problem with that logic, but anticipate those same ignorant Lawyers to question you as to "why did you want to copy what a trained LEO would use, do you fantasize about being a Police Officer?" Again, expect the unexpected, idiotic, and ridiculous in a court room.

 

[ROGER4314]

I read this entire thread and saw some interesting points of view. I am not a LEO nor do I expect to act like one. I am an old man who has an extensive background in street violence. Some of the members view street conflict like the "Gunfight At The OK Corral" and gear up accordingly. I've seen the reality of street violence many times. It's not like that at all.

Street violence is unexpected, fast, dark, scary as Helx, uncertain, hard to see and hear. After the first round goes off, you may be flash blind and temporarily deaf, footing may be uneven, with rocks, broken bottles, gravel underfoot and you'll forget where safe haven can be found.

I've been shot, too. For a few seconds, the target is trying to figure out what happened and how badly he is hurt. Where is all that blood coming from? Is that MY blood? During that few moments of uncertainty, BEAT FEET..........get gone!

I don't have to apprehend a felon, cuff him or identify him. I have defended myself and now I'm outta here! Render aid?.....Heck NO! If you were scared enough to shoot the guy, you're scared enough to run! After you get a few blocks away, or get to your car, call the cops on your cell and tell them where the event occurred.

I spend more time AVOIDING conflict than I do in preparing for it. If you're on the street at 2 am, you're asking for trouble! Be HOME at 2am!

There are places that are known trouble spots. Don't go there.

If you go to a gin mill late at night, then expect trouble. I don't go to those places. I don't drink, smoke or take drugs.

If I'm at a party and people are drinking, after I see the the 3rd drink consumed, I'm looking for the door to go home. If I see an altercation, most folks go TOWARDS the fight. I'm leaving!

That's how I see it and there is no need for me to carry additional hardware or ammunition. I carry a firearm every single day and have for years. God willing, I will never need to use it. If I do my job correctly by eliminating dangerous scenarios, the odds are in my favor.

Flash

 

[Lawdawg45]

I've been asked to clarify my label of "tactard". It actually was a term used recently by Sheriff Jim Wilson on his website, but for me, it's personified by the kid at our LGS here in Indy. It's the kid with an entire closet of 5-11 tactical clothing (shirts, cargo pants with magazine pockets, jacket with concealment pockets, undershirts with pouch for a micro gun), combat boots complete with shank holder, multiple weapons on his person with reloads for each, para-cord rescue bracelet (high angle rescue in Indiana?), auto release knife clipped to strong side pocket, high lumen light carried on his 5-11 nylon web belt, and finally speech laced with boasting about his AR in the truck with laser range finder and night vision hi-res scope! Thank God we live in a country where people can do this if they wish!

LD

 

[GEM]

You need to plan for reasonable but lower probability extreme cases.

1. Gun malfunction solved by an extra mag
2. Unlucky you ends up at a Columbine, VT, Mumbia or Sikh temple. You will need the ammo then.

Folks who post this topic endless seem to think that the majority of incidents will be what always happens to them. It will be a single mugger be gone or lone dude in the house.

You wave your gun or fire one shot and HOLY MOLEY, Shazam, it comes out in your favor.

Hope it goes that way. BTW, a good stat course teaches you about distributions and risk cut offs.