My First Accidental Discharge, I am Freaked Out.. Learning Lesson... Need Advice

[VPLthrneck]

Here's the simple steps I was taught in the Marines when we were leaving the shooting range; it seems to work whenever you are dealing with a gun:

1) Remove magazine
2) Flip safety OFF
3) Pull charging handle and lock bolt to the rear
4) Visually inspect that chamber is empty
5) Insert finger into chamber to physically verify that chamber is empty
6) Release bolt
7) Pull trigger, rifle should go click (this lets you know that you rifle is functioning-NOT that there is no round in it)
8) Safety ON
9) Insert magazine

Now you have a rifle that in two quick step is ready to go: flipping off the safety and pulling the charging handle to chamber a round.

 

[Sky]

delete

 

[2009_gunner]

That's exactly what "Glock Fotay" guy did.

Chamber was empty and verified empty. Then he chambered a round...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-Qdx6vky0

Both of my HD guns are always loaded, so if I pull the trigger I know they will boom.

 

[hardworker]

My advice would be to no longer use the trigger pull as a means of testing whether it's loaded or not.

On another note, why do you sleep with two AR's next to the bed?

 

[youngda9]

People need to learn that compressed springs don't wear out any faster then non-compressed springs...modern mettalurgy has taught us this. It's working the springs that makes them wear out.

Your practice of releasing the firing pin spring an extra time for storage is doing exactlly what you are trying to prevent - weakening of the spring.

 

[fireside44]

Here is where I was stupid; I checked the chamber and it was empty. AH, ok I felt safe, then I closed the charging handle which loaded the round. For some reason, my stupid brain was not thinking when you close charging handle, that chambers the round.

Seems to me your mistake was not removing the mag during your safety checks. Dump mag, pull bolt back. Visual inspections of both mag and chamber. I don't consider a safety check complete on a detachable mag fed weapon unless I have removed the mag.

Glad no one was hurt.

 

[Evergreen]

Thanks for all the replies from this thread. I am thankful for all the advice, scoldings, stories of other peoples negligent discharges and I will look over this thread years to come. WHat happened to me is something I will never forget. I just plain old refuse to dry fire my weapons now.. I now have this crazy phobia of dry firing guns. Iwas at WHolesale Sports today taking a look at some handguns and when they gave me the OK to dry fire it, my heart started thumping and I was freaked out the gun would go off even though I checked it and the other guy checked it.. I think I have a new phobia which is probably very healthy to have. No dry firing guns indoor with magazine loaded.. The guys at wholesale sports should stop the practice of letting people dry fire their guns with mags in them. Sorry, after this incident I can no longer advocate that people should ever do this.

As for hardworkers question:

On another note, why do you sleep with two AR's next to the bed?

My question to you is, WHY NOT???? And for those who say you don't need an AR unless you're in warzone, I will say if an intruder comes into ur house, you will be happy to have the extra firepower and accuracy a rilfe can provide you. I have been studying the fragmentation of the Hornady TAP round and can say I am pleased to see that it fragments the way it did. No leaks in the roof that I can tell, it was pouring rain the night this happened. I will check the attic soon. Now, had I done what I did with a handgun round, I am told, that it most likely would have kept travelling and probably went through the roof before it started to fragment, who knows where it could have ended up, as it was shot at an angle. THis incident has convinced me all the more to use my AR with the frangible ballsitic tip ammo.

 

[Ben86]

I just plain old refuse to dry fire my weapons now.. I now have this crazy phobia of dry firing guns.

It'll take time, but you'll get over it. It's fine to dry fire indoors, as long as it's an assured dry fire. Make sure the chamber and magazine are empty. Better yet keep the mag out.

 

[JoeShmoe]

My only comment is on your idea of a safe direction. You said the concrete floor is not an option due to the risk of ricochet. Personally I would rather risk a ricochet than risk sending a round through the ceiling.

 

[Russ Jackson]

Personally I think you should just sell me all your guns for $300. You will feel like you were punished for your actions and I will feel better with a couple new guns...Russ

 

[vinniew]

A vehicle wont run without gas, and a weapon will not fire without bullets!

 

[GLOOB]

Seems to me your mistake was not removing the mag during your safety checks.

I disagree. Obviously, you have to remove a loaded magazine to clear a gun. But IMO, the biggest mistake was not looking down the ejection port and/or feeling the magwell to verify a mag was not inserted while checking the chamber.

Removing the magazine is a step that's sequentially separated from checking the chamber. IOW, someone with a really bad short term memory (or someone who is interrupted or distracted while clearing a firearm) might remember wrongly if he removed the mag or not. Therefore, visually checking that the mag well is clear can and should always be done at the same time as checking the chamber, whether you think you removed the mag or not. It should be automatic.

 

[ZCORR Jay]

Glad to hear everyone was ok in the original post. Again it is a good reminder of what a simple slip of the mind can result in.

 

[General Geoff]

Loading and unloading is probably the most frequent time in which an AD/ND would occur.

I concur. Whatever condition you keep your firearms in, set them and leave em that way until needed. Unnecessary gun handling with live ammunition away from the range is what leads to NDs.

 

[Jacky Treehorn]

It seems he learned his lesson at least..

A few things that other's may have already said:

1. The only time my finger is ever on the trigger is when I am out at the range shooting a fake target, or if I am in a situation where I have a real target to deal with (not likely).

2. I don't believe I have ever dry fired my weapon otherwise, if I did it was rare maybe after cleaning.

3. I refuse to do a safety check if any magazine is in the gun, regardless if it is empty or not.

4. I leave my home defense gun in the same condition always (condition 1).

Anyone can get forgetful, but I'm sure after a good scare you won't ever forget again.

 

[SSN Vet]

1) Remove magazine
2) Flip safety OFF
3) Pull charging handle and lock bolt to the rear
4) Visually inspect that chamber is empty
5) Insert finger into chamber to physically verify that chamber is empty
6) Release bolt
7) Pull trigger, rifle should go click (this lets you know that you rifle is functioning-NOT that there is no round in it)
8) Safety ON
9) Insert magazine

step 8 ??

I'm no marine, but on my AR, you can not engage the safety if the trigger mech. is not cocked. I thought M4s and M16s were both the same.

 

[SSN Vet]

The OPs error (checking the chamber clear with a loaded mag inserted, and then inadvertantly loading the weapon when releasing the slide (or in this case bolt)) has to be the single most common cause of an AD/ND.

I've had the opportunity to teach gun handling to two young people and I do exactly this, then I ask them "is the gun loaded". After they tell me "no" I have them point the gun down range at the burm and pull the trigger.

Their eyes light up when they hear the "earth shattering kaboom"

My hope is that after experiencing this once, though be it in a controlled environment, they will never forget.

The OP has learned this lesson the hard way and I'm sure that he will never forget either.

As I've read all the debates about whether to drop the hammer after clearing the chamber, whether to have loaded guns in the house, etc...

I'm concluding that there are three distinctions that need to be made.

Handling guns,

Handling ammo.

Handling guns and ammo. at the same time.

I personally teach rule #1 as, "all firearms are loaded untill proven otherwise"

I hear many say, "all guns are loaded, all the time, always"

Which is imho, kind of silly. Of course they're not always loaded. I would never, ever clean a gun if they were "always" loaded.

I understand that what folks really mean is that your attitude should be such that you always handle a gun as if it were loaded.

But once it's unloaded, it's unloaded. Double check? Sure. Check as many times as you need to.

I'm thinking that the key is to then remove any live ammo. from the bench, and then proceed to drop the hammer, strip, clean, dry fire, inspect, work on, etc... all you want.

My very limited experience in USPSA matches (one clinic & one match) is exactly the same as the Wiry Irishman's. You unload, show clear, and then drop the hammer and holster the weapon.

Pulling the trigger isn't a sin. You do it when your loaded weapon is on target and your sure of your target and what's beyond. But you also do it when you have unloaded you firearm, verified that it is unloaded and then removed any live ammo. from the immediate area.

Is the horse dead yet?

 

[benEzra]

Just out of interest, why do you keep the magazine in your rifle if the rifle is in your safe?

That's the way most people store an HD long gun in a safe, from my experience. Chamber empty, magazine loaded, safety on, the same way you'd typically store a pump shotgun kept for HD.

To the OP, you might want to simplify your routine a bit. First of all, I'd personally have one AR out; you can only wield one, and if for some reason you have to leave the room, you have left a loaded rifle unattended for your hypothetical burglar's accomplice to grab and use against you. I think an AR is a fine choice for HD (it's my first choice as well) but one AR next to your bed is a weapon; two AR's (if you live alone) equal one weapon and one distraction.

IMO there is no need to cycle the bolt and pull the trigger every time you pull it out of the safe and put it back. Pick which AR you want to use for HD, remove the magazine, lock the bolt back, and make 100% sure visually and otherwise that the chamber and magwell are empty. Now lower the bolt, close the dust cover, insert a loaded magazine, and leave it that way, loaded magazine inserted, chamber empty, safety on (note that this requires the hammer to be back). Pull it out of the safe that way in the evening, put it back that way in the morning, and always treat it as if there's a round in the chamber (Rule One). ND's are more likely when you are constantly loading and unloading it, especially if you are verifying chamber-empty by pulling the trigger.

In the unlikely event that you have a break-in, run the charging handle when you pick it up; otherwise leave it alone.

Get yourself a copy of Green Eyes, Black Rifles by Kyle E. Lamb and Magpul Dynamics' Art of the Tactical Carbine and study them both, and if/when you can afford to, take a carbine class.

Finally, you did well keeping it pointed in a more or less safe direction, but the safest direction when you are on the first floor of a multi-story building (or out in the open) with a .223 loaded with JHP or other frangible ammo, is at an angle at the floor two or three feet away from where you are standing. An ND into a concrete slab will result in some spattering concrete, some dust, and a hole in any overlying carpet, but there is zero chance of it exiting the house. For an impact at a relatively steep angle, .223 is less likely to richochet than typical handgun or shotgun rounds.

 

[gym]

I am not going to read all of the posts, as I don't have time know. But night time is when you are tired and you should not have to do anything requiring chambering loading or unloading a weapon prior to going to bed. It should be ready to take it's position, prior to that time". Mine comes out of the drawer and slides to the front of the nightstand, never leaving the holster. The second one gets removed from one holster, and placed in the "pillow pal", Next to the frame of the bed. They are both Glocks and always have a round chambered. I have a trigger plug for the 26, that sit's in a iwb inside my Fanny pak. Tripple protection. If the plug fell out, "which happens once or twice a year, I can live with one 45 for the evening, or go to the safe and grab a revolver. When you are tired the brain can sometimes run off, on it's own for a second, prepare for that and allow for it. Thank god you are OK. The spackle at Home Depot will take care of the holes. My Rot knocked down a wall full of mirrors one night lol it left 22 fist size holes from the glue. We can rebuild it

 

[cottswald]

I remember a guy who helped introduce me to firearms warned me that you will have one of these in your life...

Such an attitude is IMO a big mistake. Don't allow yourself the luxury of a "self fulfilling prophecy".

 

[Evergreen]

To the OP, you might want to simplify your routine a bit. First of all, I'd personally have one AR out; you can only wield one, and if for some reason you have to leave the room, you have left a loaded rifle unattended for your hypothetical burglar's accomplice to grab and use against you. I think an AR is a fine choice for HD (it's my first choice as well) but one AR next to your bed is a weapon; two AR's (if you live alone) equal one weapon and one distraction.

Thanks BenEzra for this advice.. I will take it to heart. You're right about having two ARs around, one allowing a potential intruder to use my gun against me. Although, in the likelihood of an invasion, seeing I live alone for now, I would not try to clear the house, but rather be hanging out in my bedroom on the phone with the police and only discharging my gun if the intruder tries to enter the room before the police arrive. My feeling is, having two ARs would be good, in case one jams/misfires/etc. BUt, it is probably overkill. And, if for some reason I do need to leave my room, you're right that I do make a gun available to any intruder in my house whom I am not aware. I have .45 and/or 9mm handgun I can use as backup as well as snubnose; so it would probably be better to use those as backup, since I Can carry those with me, if I am required.

Such an attitude is IMO a big mistake. Don't allow yourself the luxury of a "self fulfilling prophecy".

Cottswald, I didn't want to fulfill his prophesy. Actually, I brushed off what he said as rubbish, until it happened to me..

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

My former brother in law killed himself with an "empty" pistol. He thought the chamber was unloaded when the magazine was still in.
You should never hate yourself.
You must ingrain these (COL Jeff Cooper) rules until it becomes second nature.

1. Treat every firearm as if it were loaded.
2. Never point a firearm at anything you do not intend to shoot.
3. Keep the finger off the trigger and firearm on safe until ready to shoot.
4. Know the target and what's beyond it.

I never keep a loaded gun in the house with the exception of a home defense weapon.

When taking a gun from another you must open the chamber and verify that chamber is empty. Use your finger to physically feel an empty chamber. Your eyes will play tricks on you.

Never pass on to another person a gun that is unloaded. Verify that it is unloaded.

You must verify no magazine in the weapon. Failure to do so makes an unloaded weapon loaded.
You should never leave a gun unattended with anyone else in the location. The blame lies squarely on your shoulders should an AD happen.
Respect the firearms you are around. Never assume anyone respects firearms like you do.

Stop any unsafe practice. IE sweeping others at the firing range. Unintentional pointing any gun to the rear of a firing line.
Sorry about listing other than the four rules as this is what I have encountered over the years.

 

[9mmforMe]

Glad you are ok and that no one in the house was shot/killed.


I have had 2 NDs and they taught me well...consider yourself schooled, my friend.


Ok, now stop, take a few deep breaths, stop hitting your head against your monitor and put all the good advice imparted to you into practice from this point forward. Transform any anxiety you may have regarding handling your guns into being singularly mindful about your safety routines. Remember you are in control of the weapon and only you can prevent future NDs.

If ever in doubt:

http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp

 

[KevininPa]

No one was hurt. That's the key thing. Now you can learn from your mistake. Been there, done that. I know what it feels like. Now you'll be more attentive. I know I am.

 

[Ben86]

IE sweeping others at the firing range.

By far the most common and dangerous practice I see with newbies. Combine that with keeping their finger on the trigger and you have a recipe for disaster.