Why do people like certain calibers?

[BlindJustice]

Uhh, sqlbullet, no problem with your choice of the
10mm Auto cartrdige however, seems the price of
primers are running about equal to a .22 LR Mini-Mag
round, so "as cheap as a .22 LR" I;ll take as B.S>
Powder isn't free, eh?


I llike .40 as a caliber, nice balance of weight,
Sectional density/ballilstic Co-efficient with a good
range of bullet weights. What's a Dan Wesson 10mm
carry in a magazine?

R-

 

[jeepmor]

Mostly because I already own some in said caliber, so I look for more in said caliber of choice.

My fav is the 10mm, so I own a 40 also so I can reload them both. It's like that for me anyhow. I have other calibers, and reload them also, but when buying another gun, I consider what I already have simply for plinking and reloading simplicity.

 

[Ed Ames]

Sql, Well said.

So many of our prejudices are inspired by random history, it can be a real challenge to sort reason from rationalization.

I'm a big fan of small high velocity handgun rounds. 7.65x25 and the like. I think they are very cool and useful. Yet, when I look at the handguns I've purchased, .45 caliber variations (acp, c, etc) rule the checkbook.

My rationalization is that the small high velocity rounds are more for hunting and other things that I, as a city dweller, don't actually do. The slower and heavier .45s, on the other hand, are very practical in urban guns. Does anyone buy that?

The sum of that prejudice is my disinterest in intermediate cartridges like .357mag. I know it is popular and I assume there is a reason (beyond the 1950s never quite dying) for that but the cartridge does zilch for me.

None of which says our choices are bad or good... just mostly harmless.

 

[christcorp]

Ed; I'm a little confused. 1st; I love the 45acp. It is by far my favorite handgun caliber. The slowness and mass make for a very easy to shoot weapon that is very effective on human targets. It is by far my favorite. But I don't understand how you can call the 357 magnum cartridge intermediate. Intermediate implies that it is in the "Middle" some place between others. With the exception of HUNTING handguns such as the 41mag, 44mag, 460, 480, 500 and others I have missed; there isn't one caliber handgun from 22lr all the way to 45acp that can reach the velocity and energy of the 357 magnum. Even factory loads can easily take the 357 magnum to 1400 fps and 600 ft/lbs.

And the other advantages of the 357 magnum is that it can go as low as a 70 grain bullet or up to 200 grains. It can be used on practically anything imaginable. It can be found and fired in revolvers, semi-autos, and rifles. Not even considering it's 38 special sister that can be fired in the same weapon; the 357 in it's own right, can be loaded with the similar weight bullets, velocity, and energy of a 9mm, through the 40sw, 10mm, and 45acp. The only calibers the 357 magnum can't reach is the smaller calibers of the 25, 32, and 380 auto; and the faster hunting rounds of the 41 mag, 44 mag, 460, 480, 500 and similar. And this isn't even considering some of the specialty ammo out there that can push a 125 grain bullet 1700 fps and 800 ft/lbs. Personally; I believe the 357 magnum to be the best caliber on the market. It can do ANYTHING that the 9mm through the 45acp and everything in between. I personally us 158 grain Hydra-shoks which is about 300 fps and 100 ft/lbs stronger than a 45acp.

But even though the 45acp is my favorite for self/home defense; there is no way I could even consider the 357 magnum as being intermediate. It is the most versatile caliber there is. It is the most powerful of traditionally accepted self defense hand guns; yet capable of being as soft as a 9mm. The only disadvantage some people may have with it is that it generally is used in a revolver, and therefor limited to 6 rounds. But for self/home defense purposes, that is generally more than enough. But except for that for some people, the 357 magnum is still the BEST overall caliber in any of the handgun ranges. Especially for self/home defense.

 

[sqlbullet]

Blind Justice, can't argue that primers are getting spendy right now. But, I have 2 ton's of lead. I can trade/sell, making primers and powder free for a long time.

 

[Ed Ames]

From a power perspective:
Low is, what, 400 ft-lbs and below? I'll even accept 300ft-lbs and below.
High? 1000 ft-lbs and above.
Intermediate is in the middle.

From a caliber perspective:
Low is less than .32" (actual -- most "32" is about .312") diameter
High is greater than .41" (actual -- .44 mag is .429") diameter.
Intermediate is between them.

.45ACP is low or intermediate power, high diameter
7.65x25 is intermediate power, low diameter
.454 casull is high, high
.22lr is low, low

.357mag is intermediate, intermediate.

Kinda arbitrary, I know, but nothing says you have to use my numbers.

 

[christcorp]

I guess so. But except for the 454 casull, the 357 magnum can do ANY of what you listed. I guess that's why I don't see it as an intermediate. I see a 9mm, 40, and 10mm as an intermediate. Different perspective I guess.

 

[m2steven]

"The fact is, revolvers have no reliability advantage over automatics."

The above is not a fact. I own revolvers and automatics. The only thing that will cause my home defense revolver to fail is bad ammo. There are
at least 2 common ways my pistol can fail and both are fatal to me in the situation we're inferring here.

If you want to make your odds the best they can be with a pistol, you have to keep a bullet in the snout. This eliminates the high percentage problem of botching the first load. It also really ups the odds someone will grab the gun and fire one unintentionally.

My strategy at home is my Ruger .327 mag revolver loaded with skull crushers backed-up with my Glock 26. Both have been 100 percent reliable. Past performance is a great indicator of future performance.

Now, to the topic at hand. I prefer the above 2 calibers for several reasons. The 19mm is cheap to shoot, really reliable, very accurate, easy to fire fast and keep on target. I shoot it at least once a week.
The 327 mag is accurate, great trigger pull, and 'hits like a brick through a plate glass window'. Plus - it easily shoots the cheap stuff for plinking.
I've never had a bullet failure with either.

How does the 19mm compare to the .327 in terms of power. It actually doesn't. However, it hits so well that i'm very comfortable with the thought of putting 7 to 10 slugs into an attacker's torso. If you shoot enough metal targets you get a feel for how much energy a bullet imparts.

The 45 auto is a great pistol if you know how to shoot it. I see too many people at the range bring these out and literally can't hit the broad side of a barn with them. Shoot a caliber you can hit something with.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The above is not a fact. I own revolvers and automatics. The only thing that will cause my home defense revolver to fail is bad ammo.

Your revolver won't fail if you get a few grains of powder under the ejector star? It won't fail if the transfer bar breaks? It won't fail, if reloading under pressure, you allow a case to fall back into the chamber under the ejector star? It won't fail if a primer backs out, or a bullet jumps crimp?

 

[Ed Ames]

I'm far from unique in saying I think the .327 would be great as a field/kit gun cartridge, especially for a revolver/(lever action?) carbine pair. To me, this (ballistics by the inch) proves it.

I suspect that, As soon as I can get a carbine/revolver (especially 4") pair, I'll buy one.

<taps foot impatiently>

ETA:

I guess so. But except for the 454 casull, the 357 magnum can do ANY of what you listed.

A pretty good analogy for me is the 5.56x45. It's another intermediate cartridge and reasonable enough, but... it's more than I need for most of what it does well (the .222 is arguably a better varmint round) and marginal in applications other cartridges serve well (e.g. deer; it'll kill them but there are dozens of better choices). The .357 is the same sort of deal to me. If the military hadn't adopted 5.56x45 most 5.56 owners would've opted for something else. .357 had the same thing for a generation due to the FBI and/or other police forces adopting them....

Just my prejudice, not anything you have to live your life by.

 

[Oyeboten]

Reminds me of how different people have different daily-driver vehicles.


Any given one will have plusses and minuses, according to the kinds of use it's owner/driver imagines, enjoys or asks of it.


Why do people like certain vehicles?


I think it's usually far from 'certain', rather, they have what they have for whatever their reason is.


And as an earlier Poster alluded, 'Reason' does not per-se mean anyone else's idea of rational, even if it may mean rationalized according to the individual's inclination.

 

[tipoc]

I guess so. But except for the 454 casull, the 357 magnum can do ANY of what you listed. I guess that's why I don't see it as an intermediate. I see a 9mm, 40, and 10mm as an intermediate. Different perspective I guess.

A number of conceptions of handguns come to us from generations of tradition. Traditions don't always make scientific sense.

small bore: anything below the .38 (.22, .32acp, 32 Mag, 9x18, .380, etc.)
medium bore: 9mm, .38 Super, .357 Magnum, .38 Spl. etc.
Big bore: anything from .40 on up

Now I'm not making these classes up they come to us from the by-gone misty days of yore when "big bore" usually meant more power.

Why is the .380 acp considered a small bore caliber when it's the same dia. as the 9mm which is a mid bore? Power is the reason. At the same time the .357 is considered a mid bore caliber (intermediate) even though in certain loadings it has more "power" than the .44 Spl, for example. In his book, IIRC, "Big Bore Revolvers" John Taffin about apologizes for including the .357 but does so and notes it as a medium bore with big bore power.

We inherit a good deal of terms and conceptions about firearms from past generations of shooters. Some of these appear to make little sense until we learn how the terms developed.

tipoc

 

[BK]

For me, it's a multitude of guns, a handful of calibers.

 

[sqlbullet]

there is no way I could even consider the 357 magnum as being intermediate

10mm as an intermediate

There is an inconsistency here.

The 357 Mag and the 10mm are ballistic twins at the muzzle in about any bullet weight they share. There are some lighter projectiles available for 357 (basically 100-200 gr), and some heavier ones for 10mm (basically 130-230). Delivered power is likewise within a percent or two of each other. The 357 has better sectonal density, while the 10mm has more diameter.

So, if the 357 can't be considered intermediate, then the 10mm can't either. 200 gr bullets at 1300 fps either is or is not intermediate performance.

 

[m2steven]

Revolver Failure

"Your revolver won't fail if you get a few grains of powder under the ejector star? It won't fail if the transfer bar breaks? It won't fail, if reloading under pressure, you allow a case to fall back into the chamber under the ejector star? It won't fail if a primer backs out, or a bullet jumps crimp?"

My revolver is always cleaned prior to it's wait to do it's job. I've shot the sp101 until it's filthy. I have a few other revolvers that don't handle debris as well as my ruger. However, if you take both a clean revolver and pistol - my experience is that you'll have more failures from a clean pistol than a clean revolver.

I've NEVER had a failure with my Glock 26. It's the only pistol I have owned which is perfect. I can tell with a revolver if I've got too much debris under the ejector star or my bullets aren't seating fully due to filth during loading and can be corrected before I get it ready to shoot. It's not so easy to determine beforehand with a pistol. This is just my opinion but in having spent much recent time a the range, even bad ammo won't keep a revolver from shooting the next bullet. Bad ammo in a pistol needs a rack to remove it and it can lodge itself during that process. I had a few mis-feeds with my little LCP which were corrected with a slight hit on the back of the slide pushing the bullet into the barrel. This is acceptable. Having to dig a bullet out with a knife, or the recent failure of a bullet to cycle up into loading position in the magazine is not.

It's easier to correct problems before they are critical with a revolver. Your experience may be different.

 

[Ed Ames]

Ammo problems can bedevil any type of gun.

I went out a few years ago for some revolver plinking. I was shooting at fairly close in targets when something made me pause mid way through a cylinder. I glanced at the muzzle (no, not by pointing it at myself) and there was the nose of a bullet sticking out half an inch.

Pop quiz: what happens if you believe the statement, "All revolver problems can be cured by pulling the trigger again."

 

[wildcatter109]

Im sorry but the idea that a 357 could be concidered anything but intermediate is scarey, I have shot enough groundhogs with one to tell you any standard 44 spcl or long colt load will make the 357 mag. a very eneamic round! I have taken deer with 45 colt and 44 special and assure you That is why I abandoned the 357 mag!! I know it is easy to read articles and shoot paper and think one can do whatever he wants with it, but I have used all of them in the field and out of respect for the game I hunt I would not concider a 357 for deer unless I knew I could limit my shots under 35 yards!! with any bullet or load! Make mine a REAL BIG BORE!

 

[inSight-NEO]

This is a very subjective question. Too many reasons, really. But, for me, its all about need/usefulness/"track record."

Hence, I prefer the .45 ACP above all else. Second choices would be the .357 Magnum and the .40 S&W. Of course, regarding these last two calibers, it depends on which gun Im using to fire these rounds and why they are being fired in the first place.

Then, of course, there is the 12 gauge shotgun...but I wont get into that one.

 

[S&W-Keeper]

I have a major soft spot for the .357mag.It was my first center fire. I have a lot of them.

 

[Lonestar49]

...

In truth, I really don't have the_answer. But you might ask one of these guys.




Ls

 

[13.45]

same reason they have "ford vs. chevy" loyalty or "chocolate vs. vanilla" loyalty- 'cause folks is folks or, put another way, the human thought process often tends to reduce variables as a means to reach sufficiently useful decisions. sometimes we'd rather make a choice and stick with it instead of constantly having to sort through numerous complex options

 

[TUBBY1]

Never met a caliber i didn't like

My favorite is the cheapest but lately it's the one they have for sale. I have 12ga.,20ga.,.410,380,38,357,40,45lc,30-30,300winmag,and last but not least,22.i wish i could tell you they all have a special purpose like sd,hd, or hunting but truth is they all go bang and i like it.god bless america.....

 

[lawboy]

I like 45ACP because I resemble 45ACP!

 

[NoirFan]

I don't know why "people" like certain calibers but I can tell you why "I" like the .357 magnum. Not all my reasons are rational or even defensible, but here they are:

Powerful - it's as much power as I need for anything I might call upon a handgun to do

Proven fight-stopping capability

Satisfying recoil and report, at about the upper limit of what I find enjoyable

The guns chambered in this cartridge - double action revolvers and lever rifles - look and feel better than any modern equivalents

Historically significant - it's associated with the G-men vs mobster shootouts in the 1930s, my favorite period of US history

Standing out from the crowd - no one at my range shoots full frame magnum revolvers... it's all black semiautos and rimfire revolvers there

Watching the cylinder turn - you can see the gun work! How cool is that?

Bad ass name - even people who know nothing about guns recognize the words "three fifty seven"

 

[tipoc]

Noirfan,

Those are about the best reasons I've read anywhere for liking a cartridge. I like that approach.

tipoc