x39 for in home defense?

[ccsniper]

I see a lot of people on here use the AR for home protection. Reasons are light recoil, effective round that is less likely to over penetrate, and ease of use for basically everyone in the house. (Lets face it, the AR platform is just really one of the best home defenders for EVERYONE. Kids can use it, small framed women can use it, and the elderly can use it) Though most would say a shotgun is the best all around home defender, not all can manage one. That said, if all you had was an SKS or AK variant for home defense, what ammo would you use? Hollow point? FMJ? Soft point? And why? I ask because my dad only has an SKS and he uses it with soft point hunting ammo.

EDIT TO ADD: I was wondering if you would be concerned with over penetration as well, I am quite certain the x39 will work as a man stopper

 

[19-3Ben]

I ask because my dad only has an SKS and he uses it with soft point hunting ammo.

And if he knows how to do his part, I'm sure the gun would do its part should that time come (and i hope it never does.)

Is it a first choice gun for that purpose? No. Not for me anyway. Not even second or third. But if it was all I had, I would sleep comfortably at night knowing that SKS was by my side. the x39 has been making the lives of American soldiers quite miserable on the battlefield for the last half century. Even in FMJ it's an effective round.

It does have a habit of penetrating a lot but that's just one of the trade-offs in the cost/benefit analysis of using this cartridge.

 

[JustinJ]

If it had to be 7.62x39 i guess i'd maybe look at the 108 grain Cor-Bon hunter. Faster and lighter rounds seem to have a greater tendency to come apart through barriers.

 

[adelbridge]

Without mentioning a certain brand name I have had the same hunting bullet perform so many different ways it is basically unpredictable. I have never lost an animal but I have seen the bullet come apart on the shoulder and not break rib cage. I have had the jacket come off and lodge under hide. Massive entry and no exit wound, massive exit and no blood from entry wound. I am convinced half the time it is voodoo: bones, angles, contracted muscles are wild cards. keep a mag full of what you have on hand and hope you dont have to use it.

 

[EBK]

I keep an AK for home defense. It is loaded with 21 rounds of Hornady 123 grain SST. (20 round mag 1 in the chamber)
The test medium for the three shots below was 2 water jugs first coverd in an old t shirt backed by phone books. none of the rounds made it through the first phone book with the deepest penetration being roughly half to 2 thirds of the first phonebook

 

[jaimeshawn3]

An SKS would be an excellent home defense weapon. Short, light, and as powerful as a 30-30. A weapon that can shoot through sheetrock is your friend.

 

[ugaarguy]

Light weight ballistic tips like the Hornady TAP / SST that EBK mentioned, and similar loads would be my choice. Terminal performance (based on testing I've previously seen) is similar to ballistic tips .223/5.56. That SKS should be a great HD rifle with the ammo mentioned above.

 

[OilyPablo]

I would say my AK would be fine for home defense. It's a very easily handling rifle for me. I just have a regular short axis of evil wood stock, so it's a bit uncomfortable for extended long distance target shots, but close fire is no problem.

 

[WinThePennant]

An AK would do the job, but does anyone think of how damn loud an AK or AR is when shot inside a home?

You'd immediately be deaf. I consider it a necessity to be able to hear what's going on in my house when an intruder is in the house.

I don't have one, yet, but I think a silenced .45 ACP is the way to go. A silenced AR would be nice, too.

 

[nathan]

My handgun and shotgun are my indoor guns. Rifles are for outdoor defense.

 

[briansmithwins]

Dismissing rifles as being outdoor only is ignoring their potential.

My AK is loaded with Hornandy V-Max 124gr ballistic tips. I want a rifle round that falls apart when it hits pretty much anything solid. Too many people in the city to use more penetrative pistol or shotgun projectiles.

BSW

 

[gunnutery]

I keep an AK mag loaded with HP rounds for my AK, just in case defense is needed outdoors. I've got a couple go-to pistols for inside defense.

If I were to use the AK inside, I'd go with what EBK and BSW suggested. I've been looking for those myself but never ran across them in the store. I don't have much to worry about as far as neigbors close by, except to the east, which happens to be a prime direction of defense in the middle of the night. Thus I'll try to use the pistols instead.

From some of the gel tests I've seen online, the SP bullets don't tend to expand much and seem to have FMJ tendancies.

 

[ExAgoradzo]

Will it work: absolutely...

1911 230 gr FMJ can't miss. Flashlight underneath so I don't shoot my own family: what more do I want (I can't have the 870 next to the bed without a lock because of the 18 year old rule...).
YMMV
Greg

 

[Fryerpower]

(Lets face it, the AR platform is just really one of the best home defenders for EVERYONE. Kids can use it, small framed women can use it, and the elderly can use it)

I assume you are talking about 7.62x39 and not 5.45x39.

5.45x39 would be comperable to an AR in .223/5.56.

Jim

 

[-v-]

I think the Hornady Ballistic Tips are the best bet. Either their A-Max or SST flavor will do a great job. If you are looking for a faster-fragmenting load, the A-max may be a better bet since its a lightly built varmit bullet. The SST is more of a hunting bullet with a thicker base...if I recall correctly.

As for noise issue, a rifle is actually only within 1-2dB of a handgun (Intermediate caliber rifle vs auto-loader), and in many cases the 9, .40, and .45acp produce a louder report then a 5.56 or x39.

 

[Swampman]

ccsniper, I'm certain that almost any 7.62x39 round would be capable of putting a home invader down for the count. You didn't say what kind of SPs your dad uses, but I'd recommend the lightest and most frangible rounds available if overpenetration is a concern.

As a general rule, I'd trust American SP projectiles more than Russian.

"You'd immediately be deaf. I consider it a necessity to be able to hear what's going on in my house when an intruder is in the house."

I'm not trying to make light of a serious situation, but think about it, you'll only be deaf AFTER you take the shot(s).
Intruders bodies aren't near as threatening as the intruders themselves.
Your hearing will probably return enough to answer questions by the time the law shows up.

I've got a couple of suppressed rifles and pistols, my Saiga 12 is what I grab when things go bump in the night.

 

[ccsniper]

Penetration is a concern, but not nearly as much as in newer homes. My dad's house is 100 years old this year and let me tell you, they built them stout back when. The walls are 1x12's lined right on top of one another. There is no space between the boards whatsoever. On top of that when my Grandpa bought the house he layered sheet rock directly over the wood on both sides. So it goes like this; sheetrock, 1x12, four inches of space, 1x12, sheet rock. No insulation at all so its cold in the winter and hot in the summer. I love it though. In 1950 the land was bought and now this is a bustling neighborhood. So he would need ammo that would breakup after going through all that if in case of a miss.

 

[Inebriated]

An AK would do the job, but does anyone think of how damn loud an AK or AR is when shot inside a home?

That's why I keep electronic ear pro with my HD setup. If you've got time to throw it on, it's a huge plus.

 

[ugaarguy]

An AK would do the job, but does anyone think of how damn loud an AK or AR is when shot inside a home?

Rather than think about it, why not compare it scientifically?

http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml
12 Gauge 28" barrel 151.50dB
26" barrel 156.10dB
18 _" barrel 161.50dB

...

.223, 55GR. Commercial load 18 _" barrel 155.5dB

...

9mm 159.8 dB
.38 S&W 153.5 dB
.38 Spl 156.3 dB
.357 Magnum 164.3 dB
.41 Magnum 163.2 dB
.44 Spl 155.9 dB
.45 ACP 157.0 dB
.45 COLT 154.7 dB

 

[SaxonPig]

Rifle is offensive, not defensive.

Rifle is big and clumsy inside close quarters compared to a handgun.

Weapon retention is more of a problem with a rifle as an intruder has a bigger target should he try to grab the weapon.

Any center fire rifle will be overly powerful for use inside a dwelling.

Using some tricked out AR in this current political environment invites legal action both criminal and civil. Even if you think the shooting was justified an overzealous, politically ambitious prosecutor or personal injury attorney may disagree. An ignorant jury will hear you portrayed as Rambo for using a "weapon of war" against that poor, misguided young man who broke into your home.

I make this argument knowing that all the experts on this forum will dismiss every point. Fine. Everyone do as you wish.

 

[19-3Ben]

That chart can say whatever it wants, but I can tell you that the 5.56/.223 coming out of a typical carbine length barrel feels a heck of a lot louder to me than many of those handgun rounds that are listed as actually being louder.

If a guy next to me at an indoor range is shooting a 9mm pistol, it's no big deal. If he's shooting an AR, there is an ear-splitting crack that is unpleasant even with ear muffs.

 

[19-3Ben]

Using some tricked out AR in this current political environment invites legal action both criminal and civil. Even if you think the shooting was justified an overzealous, politically ambitious prosecutor or personal injury attorney may disagree. An ignorant jury will hear you portrayed as Rambo for using a "weapon of war" against that poor, misguided young man who broke into your home.

Which is one of the several reasons that if I do have to use a rifle indoors, mine is a rather innocuous looking blued steel and wood model 92 (.357mag).

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

As someone who has fired handguns, carbines, shotguns, and full powered battle rifles indoors, I find the handguns to be the most deafening to the person firing the gun. With the muzzel of the longer gun being farther from your ears, you don't catch as much of the blast.

 

[Swampman]

Originally posted by RevolvingGarbage
"With the muzzel of the longer gun being farther from your ears, you don't catch as much of the blast."

I checked this out with the Warsaw Pact length stock on my 16.25" WASR-3 and a 5" barrel 1911, the muzzle of the AK was closer to my ear than that of the pistol when both were held in a normal firing position (shouldered rifle and Weaver with the pistol).
I've got fairly long arms so YMMV.

I worry about preserving my hearing and generally double up on ear pro at the range.
Even though I worry about my ears, the weapon hanging next to my bed at night is an SBS'ed Saiga 12 loaded with #1 buck, because I feel that this weapon gives me the best chance for survival if my home is invaded by criminals.
I can get hearing aids if I go deaf and a lawyer if I have to go to court.
There's not much you can do about being dead.

I think worrying about hearing loss and future court battles is putting the cart WAY before the horse.
You have to be alive for any of that stuff to matter.

With that said, I live in a rural area and my house has 16" thick stone walls, I WOULD worry about killing a neighbor and would allow overpenetration to guide my choice if it were a factor.

The idea of wearing high quality electronic, stereo ear pro is a good one, but considering the possibility of time being short, I'd only think of putting it on AFTER I'd readied my shotgun, strapped on my .45 and called the Sheriffs Department to get the cavalry headed my way.

 

[Jenrick]

To address the OP's question:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19885

When one moves to a expanding/fragmenting design in 7.62 x 39 mm, terminal performance is significantly enhanced. The best 7.62 x 39 mm loads we have tested to date are the Hornady 123 gr VMAX, Winchester 123 gr JSP (X76239) and the Lapua 125 gr JSP. Out of a 16” barrel they perform somewhat like lightweight .30-30 loads

-Jenrick