'Scout' Rifle: Where to start?
- Thread starter Corpral_Agarn
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ECVMatt
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I have one of the original Ruger GSR with the Black Raven stock and love it. It is extremely accurate and fun to shoot. I have the forward mounted scope and it has pluses and minuses. It is very fast to shoot, but is difficult if not impossible to use with the sun at your back or at night. I really like the way the rifle handles though and keep it set up with the forward mounted scope.
However, I would give this video a watch. There is a lot of truth here and if I were starting from scratch, I would go this route:
There is also the American Ranch with AR or Mini mags out there. They are great rifles and come pretty close to a General Purpose Rifle.
However, I would give this video a watch. There is a lot of truth here and if I were starting from scratch, I would go this route:
There is also the American Ranch with AR or Mini mags out there. They are great rifles and come pretty close to a General Purpose Rifle.
Sistema1927
Member
I built a pseudo-Scout quite a few years ago, using an Ishapore Enfield 2A1 as the base. I think I paid about $100 bucks for it with rotting wood. I had the barrel cut to 18" and re-crowned, put on a synthetic stock, replaced the rear sight with a rail, and mounted a Leopold LER scope. I found it to be a very handy rifle, but the scope was mounted way too high to get a comfortable cheek weld.
When the Ruger GSR came out I sold the Ishapore and put that same Leopold scope on one using Warne QD rings. I replaced the muzzle device (what was Ruger thinking?) with an A2 style bird cage, and put a Rhodesian loop sling on it.
Perfect? No. But it is still quite handy and should handle all my needs for a rifle out to 300 yards.
When the Ruger GSR came out I sold the Ishapore and put that same Leopold scope on one using Warne QD rings. I replaced the muzzle device (what was Ruger thinking?) with an A2 style bird cage, and put a Rhodesian loop sling on it.
Perfect? No. But it is still quite handy and should handle all my needs for a rifle out to 300 yards.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
I've owned my Ruger GSR with laminate stock for several years and it is a stoutly built rifle. It's a bit porky in weight when fully ready to go, thanks to that laminate stock. But that stock is not just heavy, it's heavy duty. If a shooter doesn't mind the weight, it's a recoil reducer without needing an ear shredding muzzle brake.
What I like about factory made "scout" rifles is that they are essentially "convertibles" with three sighting system possibilities. Receiver or barrel mounted optic, and/or iron sights. The great thing for your friend is, he can buy the "scout" rifle of his choice and make it into almost anything he wants to whenever he wants to.
If your friend has the cash, my gadget loving brain says to get the Steyr. What other bolt action scout rifle has a bipod hidden in the forend, fold down sights, magazine storage in the butt stock, and still isn't too heavy. Too cool, if you ask me.
My second choice would still be the Ruger. Being a Ruger, there are many versions to choose from. Lightweight or heavier stock, stainless or blued steel, 16.10" or 18.70" length barrel*, threaded muzzle (of course), left hand or right hand bolt, even chambered for other cartridges besides the .308. Hard to beat that variety.
* First generation Ruger GSRs with 16.5" specified barrels are actually 17.25".
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BSA1
member
Personally I do not like carrying a heavy rifle for real world use such as hunting or "scouting." A hunting and scout rifle only really needs to be accurate for the first three shots. (If you have not hit it after three shots your game is probably long gone).
Target and varmint shooting a heavy barrel rifle from a rest is best.
For civilian defense / military applications I would choose one of my AR-15's close to basic M-16 / M4 specs. And as a "scout" I would observe but not engage if at all possible.
Steyr if I had the bucks. But being a shooter with a lot of guns to feed and living on a budget I would pick the Savage Hog Hunter. It has the advantages of true iron sights for back-up and the trigger can be cleaned up nicely. A Hog Hunter in .308 is somewhere on my buy list for both as a rugged, no frills second medium game hunting rifle and a loaner to the kids.
Target and varmint shooting a heavy barrel rifle from a rest is best.
For civilian defense / military applications I would choose one of my AR-15's close to basic M-16 / M4 specs. And as a "scout" I would observe but not engage if at all possible.
Steyr if I had the bucks. But being a shooter with a lot of guns to feed and living on a budget I would pick the Savage Hog Hunter. It has the advantages of true iron sights for back-up and the trigger can be cleaned up nicely. A Hog Hunter in .308 is somewhere on my buy list for both as a rugged, no frills second medium game hunting rifle and a loaner to the kids.
OP
OP
Corpral_Agarn
Member
Thanks for replies, All!
I sent him a link to this thread and there is a lot to consider.
I kinda like the Savage Hog Hunter, myself...
I sent him a link to this thread and there is a lot to consider.
I kinda like the Savage Hog Hunter, myself...
dh1633pm
Contributing Member
While the Ruger with the Laminate stock is nice, the composite stock model is much lighter. Something to consider.
JeeperCreeper
Member
I like current Savage offerings myself in various forms. I like the accutrigger and barrel nut. Plus they came out with their new stock system that's... Interesting.
But if he wants a handy iron-sight rifle, there's also the lever guns (including BLR) and milsurps.
I always wanted a "scout" rifle but I hate the price and strict form factor. I settled on a Marlin 30-30 and Mosin M44 for my utility no-scope knock around rifles.
But if he wants a handy iron-sight rifle, there's also the lever guns (including BLR) and milsurps.
I always wanted a "scout" rifle but I hate the price and strict form factor. I settled on a Marlin 30-30 and Mosin M44 for my utility no-scope knock around rifles.
Did you notice that LuckyGunner in the video is using a firedot (albeit a conventional firedot) ? Here is the scout version:
https://www.leupold.com/scopes/compact-scopes/vx-r-1-5-5x33mm-scout
https://www.opticsplanet.com/leupol...holRTo62oQ3MuWd6e4XfBvj3HqgIV0zoaAkn4EALw_wcB
dh1633pm
Contributing Member
You have this part right and part wrong. The wrong part is like you, you don't have to do the strict form factor. Your Marlin 30-30 and M44 do what you want in a light handy rifle. I liked my GSR in that its light, it now has a good trigger, and its shoots well. All things that many rifles can do, including the ones you have. And that's where your very right in your posting. Can't beat your choices with a stick.
Varminterror
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If I were considering a Scout Rifle, I would either test drive one from a friend, or buy a used one and decide whether the concept was actually fitting for me, or not.
I went through a Cooper Scout phase around 2000-2004, and I do own the GSR now. I am ardently against forward mounted optics, and with modern DBM availability, all we’re really considering is a short barreled bolt gun with back up iron sights. Nobody really wants to be stuck with a stripper load rifle.
If I were starting over with the driving principles of the Scout Rifle in mind, I would strongly consider a fluted mid weight barrel with an MDT LSS chassis and a Magpul UBR stock, Rem 700 clone in 18” 6.5 creedmoor, with a 1-8x or 3-12x optic on top, pushed forward about as far as I can to let the rifle be fired with the UBR closed. Enough to take down deer (or assailants) at 600, but short and light, with little recoil, and satisfactorily sufficient barrel life to not deter practice.
I went through a Cooper Scout phase around 2000-2004, and I do own the GSR now. I am ardently against forward mounted optics, and with modern DBM availability, all we’re really considering is a short barreled bolt gun with back up iron sights. Nobody really wants to be stuck with a stripper load rifle.
If I were starting over with the driving principles of the Scout Rifle in mind, I would strongly consider a fluted mid weight barrel with an MDT LSS chassis and a Magpul UBR stock, Rem 700 clone in 18” 6.5 creedmoor, with a 1-8x or 3-12x optic on top, pushed forward about as far as I can to let the rifle be fired with the UBR closed. Enough to take down deer (or assailants) at 600, but short and light, with little recoil, and satisfactorily sufficient barrel life to not deter practice.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
Yep, 0.9 pounds lighter if the Ruger specs are accurate. That makes a polymer stock GSR with optic weigh about the same as a laminate stock without optic.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
That's where SharpDog's statement below is to be considered.
As much as I like the idea of a "true" Scout rifle, I've never owned one that met all the Cooper specs. But, I sure like rifles that are inspired by the concept.
dh1633pm
Contributing Member
Yep, 0.9 pounds lighter if the Ruger specs are accurate. That makes a polymer stock GSR with optic weigh about the same as a laminate stock without optic.
I am laughing to myself. Funny how they felt to me versus reality. I handled them both and the composite feels a lot lighter than the specs say.
JeffG
Member
You might be on a better track there. The scout scope isn't much for distance, or trophy judging...I love my Hog Hunter.
theswimmer
Member
Actually I believe L.C. Cooper's request for a forward mounted scope was based on his experience hunting dangerous game. Both eyes open, peripheral vision.
Lots of guys shoot scopes with one eye closed.
Not a good choice when you are hunting Lion or Cape Buffalo.
The concept was based on a scout profile , something you would carry when scouting.
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Varminterror
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An optic doesn’t need to be forward mounted to be fired both eyes open, and there’s nothing about forward or receiver mounted optics which encourages closing the off eye...
theswimmer
Member
Sounds like we were trained by the same gunny.
Problem is most folks were not.........
theswimmer
Member
And I don't post much so I will try to be polite.
Read some Cooper , I mean really read it . Don't skim, read. Best thing I ever did for my skills.
That will take you if you start now , about 7000 - 8000 hrs depending how fast you read.
Best regards,
JT
Read some Cooper , I mean really read it . Don't skim, read. Best thing I ever did for my skills.
That will take you if you start now , about 7000 - 8000 hrs depending how fast you read.
Best regards,
JT
Coal Dragger
member
I’ve read a lot of Cooper.
Frankly he was far better in his own mind than I suspect he was in practical application. This is particularly true as he got older.
Reading the accounts of others who encountered him paint a picture of an egotistical ass.
When Cooper was running his school he had pretty much the only doctrinal game in town, no one else was really competing in the ideas marketplace. At the same time there were no large conflicts going that would serve as a test bed for all of his theory crafting.
Then the global war on terror started. Now we have dudes who are running training programs that have extensive combat experience in all of the areas Cooper only theorized about. I’ll take my training advice from guys with 15 years of experience shooting savages in the face, or my own more limited experience doing the same. Many of Cooper’s positions on equipment, and the use thereof have been cast into the rubbish heap they belong in. The “poodle shooter” as he put it is very effective on bipedal apes despite his opinions, and the 9mm has triumphed over .45 ACP.
Cooper’s only worthy and long lasting contribution was the concept of accessible training.
Frankly he was far better in his own mind than I suspect he was in practical application. This is particularly true as he got older.
Reading the accounts of others who encountered him paint a picture of an egotistical ass.
When Cooper was running his school he had pretty much the only doctrinal game in town, no one else was really competing in the ideas marketplace. At the same time there were no large conflicts going that would serve as a test bed for all of his theory crafting.
Then the global war on terror started. Now we have dudes who are running training programs that have extensive combat experience in all of the areas Cooper only theorized about. I’ll take my training advice from guys with 15 years of experience shooting savages in the face, or my own more limited experience doing the same. Many of Cooper’s positions on equipment, and the use thereof have been cast into the rubbish heap they belong in. The “poodle shooter” as he put it is very effective on bipedal apes despite his opinions, and the 9mm has triumphed over .45 ACP.
Cooper’s only worthy and long lasting contribution was the concept of accessible training.
mdauben
Member
As I remember, when I first read one of Coopers articles on the scout rifle concept back in the day, that was the reasoning he stated for the forward mounted scope, not to facilitate loading with stripper clips.
Not commenting on the real world effectiveness of the forward mount, just what I remember of his reasoning.
To be fair, much of the reason for the "triumph" of the 9mm over the .45 ACP has to do with the vastly improved ammo and guns since Cooper's day. Back then, it was not at all unsual for brand new guns to require work (some times extensive work) to reliably function with JHP ammo. Plus JHP ammo often required magnum velocities to reliably expand (hence the popularity of the .357 Magnum as a police side arm back then). If you go back to shooting FMJ in both calibers, I think the .45 ACP starts to look much better.
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Coal Dragger
member
Sure, but I’m not going to go back to .45 ACP FMJ unless compelled to by a change in the law.
As for the scout scope concept, in the late 60’s through the 80’s it had some minimal merit. However technology in optics progressed and the variable optic with a true 1X low end to 4,5,6,7, and 8X top end has rendered the forward mounted scout scope obsolete.
That said a light compact bolt action carbine in .308 with a low power variable, and a decent sling is still a very useful. Call it a scout, practical rifle, whatever.
As for the scout scope concept, in the late 60’s through the 80’s it had some minimal merit. However technology in optics progressed and the variable optic with a true 1X low end to 4,5,6,7, and 8X top end has rendered the forward mounted scout scope obsolete.
That said a light compact bolt action carbine in .308 with a low power variable, and a decent sling is still a very useful. Call it a scout, practical rifle, whatever.
theswimmer
Member
The reason behind reduced calibers is only one .
The average Joe can't easily be shown how to shoot the larger caliber's without alot of training.
And some never.
I do not want some googin behind me with a 9mm backing me up.
Someone needs to do some research as to why smaller caliber rifles and hand guns made it onto the battlefield. I simply don't have the patience to try to explain basic military doctrine.
Hence the reason I have less than 20 posts since 2008.
Sorry, do your homework please.
The average Joe can't easily be shown how to shoot the larger caliber's without alot of training.
And some never.
I do not want some googin behind me with a 9mm backing me up.
Someone needs to do some research as to why smaller caliber rifles and hand guns made it onto the battlefield. I simply don't have the patience to try to explain basic military doctrine.
Hence the reason I have less than 20 posts since 2008.
Sorry, do your homework please.
MidRoad
Member
I've seen the steyre, Savage and gsr mentioned.
Don't rule out the Howa scout ,no experience with the scout model,but the 1500 im general is a nice rifle.
Don't rule out the Howa scout ,no experience with the scout model,but the 1500 im general is a nice rifle.
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