'Scout' Rifle: Where to start?

[SamT1]

I like the howa scout rifle. It’s not perfect IMO though.
Cut down to 16”, remove muzzle device and it’s golden.
I’m not a fan of forward mount scopes, but a big fan of light and nimble 308 rifles.

At the end of the day though a basic AR15 16” with a low power optic, dot of sorts or open sights is probably ideal. Hard to decide the caliber though.

 

[Venom007]

it is a dead term there are no factory scouts available today. Even the steyr is 1.5 lbs overweight.

In modern parlance it means a long gun (rifle) with forward mount pistol scope.

 

[herrwalther]

It would not be hard for him to BUILD a low budget scout rifle as a project. Pick up a Mosin Carbine and replace parts to fit the scout rifle idea. That was the idea I had for my Mosin before I ran out of patience to finish and sold it off.

 

[chicharrones]

btw it's actually 24 rds of 6.5G, I'm just using the European method of counting rds ... yeah, that's the ticket ... it's European)

Sounds metric. Like 25.4mm equals a full magazine in your AR.



Okay, beat me for being silly.

 

[ECVMatt]

And this:

https://loadoutroom.com/50316/the-hidden-potential-of-the-practical-bolt-action-rifle/

Good quick write up and video.

 

[MidRoad]

Not exactly a scout rifle. But good all around rifle that's light, handy and budget frriendly so he can put those extra beans towards ammo instead of gadgets.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/my-timber-rifle-build.831455/

 

[Llama Bob]

it is a dead term there are no factory scouts available today. Even the steyr is 1.5 lbs overweight.

I disagree. The plastic stocked 16" barrel Ruger scout with 3rd plastic mag, muzzle device removed, Warne QD rings, Leupold scout scope, and Riflecraft sling makes weight and is a bolt together factory solution that meets the Scout specs as originally written with the exception that it uses a Rhodesian sling instead of a Ching or CW sling. I think that's very much in the spirit of the thing.

I would recommend anyone looking to try a scout experiment with the above configuration. It's relatively cheap and will get you thinking about the upsides and downsides of the setup.

 

[Venom007]

I disagree. The plastic stocked 16" barrel Ruger scout with 3rd plastic mag, muzzle device removed, Warne QD rings, Leupold scout scope, and Riflecraft sling makes weight and is a bolt together factory solution that meets the Scout specs as originally written with the exception that it uses a Rhodesian sling instead of a Ching or CW sling. I think that's very much in the spirit of the thing.

I would recommend anyone looking to try a scout experiment with the above configuration. It's relatively cheap and will get you thinking about the upsides and downsides of the setup.

No, it does NOT make weight.

I know what I'm talking about.

Cooper back in the 80's set 7.7 lbs for the entire setup but later on he REJECTED that weight and stated 7 lbs was the MAXIMUM for a true scout, with 6.6 lbs being the ideal goal to shoot for.

Sorry, the Ruger even equipped as you say above does NOT go below 7 lbs.

But today, the gun industry has murdered the term and it no longer has the same meaning as it once did. The general public is absolutely ignorant to what a true Jeff Cooper scout rifle is and is not and the term is now used in a completely different way as I mentioned earlier. It's language. It evolves.

 

[Llama Bob]

No, it does NOT make weight.

I know what I'm talking about.

No, you don't know the weight limit. Nice try though. The limit was always 3.5kg. Has been since the very first article, and still was in the last things Cooper wrote before he died. There are lots of people who want to change the scout specs, but I can't think of any reason why I'd believe you over the guy who created it.

 

[Venom007]

No, you don't know the weight limit. Nice try though. The limit was always 3.5kg. Has been since the very first article, and still was in the last things Cooper wrote before he died. There are lots of people who want to change the scout specs, but I can't think of any reason why I'd believe you over the guy who created it.

You are right.

 

[Garandimal]

No, it does NOT make weight.

I know what I'm talking about.

Cooper back in the 80's set 7.7 lbs for the entire setup but later on he REJECTED that weight and stated 7 lbs was the MAXIMUM for a true scout, with 6.6 lbs being the ideal goal to shoot for.

Sorry, the Ruger even equipped as you say above does NOT go below 7 lbs.

But today, the gun industry has murdered the term and it no longer has the same meaning as it once did. The general public is absolutely ignorant to what a true Jeff Cooper scout rifle is and is not and the term is now used in a completely different way as I mentioned earlier. It's language. It evolves.

Boy, if I can get the rear aperture sight from the RUGER GSR to work on my 5.5 lb RUGER 77/357...?

​

Right now it's scoped with a Leupold VX-1 2-7x33mm on RUGER med. height integral rings.

Nice, but not aperture sight handy.




GR

 

[Llama Bob]

Here you go. Jeff Cooper died in 2006. The last in depth discussion he published of the Scout of any length was the revised version of "Art of The Rifle" in 2002. Unlike you, I know what I'm talking about, and just happen to have a copy handy. It contains Cooper's last thoughts on scout weight. Let's see what Col. Cooper had to say, shall we?




Now, I will direct everyone's attention to two things in the last image. The first is Cooper's own words on the subject, not filtered through clowns on the internet: "There is nothing magical about the figure of 7 lbs".

Second, I will direct your attention to the Steyer scout in his hands, which as we know weighs 6.6 lbs empty with no telescope, and in the high sevens if not eights equipped as shown with a telesope, mounts, and a sling.

So now we know what Cooper said, what you said, and that what you said was mistaken.

 

[Venom007]

I love guys like you. You come along, say something profoundly stupid, and then when it's pointed out that you have no clue your defense is to call everyone around you a "retard" like this was kindergarten. Only, unfortunately for you it's not.

I've found that the best thing to deal with people like you is to subject you to utter and complete embarrassment so it's clear to everyone exactly where you stand - down with the other liars who make things up and hope no one will notice. So here you go. Jeff Cooper died in 2006. The last in depth discussion he published of the Scout of any length was the revised version of "Art of The Rifle" in 2002. Unlike you, I know what I'm talking about, and just happen to have a copy handy. It contains Cooper's last thoughts on scout weight. Let's see what Col. Cooper had to say, shall we?
View attachment 796838
View attachment 796836
View attachment 796837

Now, I will direct everyone's attention to two things in the last image. The first is Cooper's own words on the subject, not filtered through clowns on the internet: "There is nothing magical about the figure of 7 lbs".

Second, I will direct your attention to the Steyer scout in his hands, which as we know weighs 6.6 lbs empty with no telescope, and in the high sevens if not eights equipped as shown with a telesope, mounts, and a sling.

So now we know what Cooper said, what you said, and that what you said was a lie.

Undoubtedly you are right. I just got mad that you called me a name. I don't think you're really a retard. I edited my first post.

 

[chicharrones]

Boy, if I can get the rear aperture sight from the RUGER GSR to work on my 5.5 lb RUGER 77/357...?

View attachment 796835
​

Right now it's scoped with a Leupold VX-1 2-7x33mm on RUGER med. height integral rings.

Nice, but not aperture sight handy.


GR

Buy the GSR sight and be ready to drill and tap your receiver to mount it? I just don't know if mounting it would clear the bolt handle and one rear scope ring on your 77/357 or not?

 

[Llama Bob]

Incidentally, the Ruger is actually quite light. Stock #6830 is 6.2lbs with the big steel box magazine, about 6 lbs flat with the 3 round plastic mag. The Warne rings and Leupold telescope are about 13oz total. That leaves 3oz for the sling. I don't know exactly what a a Rifecraft RS1 weighs, but it's somewhere in that general neck of the woods. If the whole mess exceeds 7lbs, its by some tiny amount. It's more than a half lb lighter than the Steyer. It doesn't hit the 3kg lower goal weight, but that weight was simply the weight of an M600 without a telescope. None of the scout prototypes did. You can hit it with extensive metal work or carbon fiber but arguably there's not much reason. It isn't magic, as Cooper pointed out.

 

[chicharrones]

No, it does NOT make weight.

I know what I'm talking about.

Cooper back in the 80's set 7.7 lbs for the entire setup but later on he REJECTED that weight and stated 7 lbs was the MAXIMUM for a true scout, with 6.6 lbs being the ideal goal to shoot for.

Sorry, the Ruger even equipped as you say above does NOT go below 7 lbs.

But today, the gun industry has murdered the term and it no longer has the same meaning as it once did. The general public is absolutely ignorant to what a true Jeff Cooper scout rifle is and is not and the term is now used in a completely different way as I mentioned earlier. It's language. It evolves.

That whole weight range going up and back down sure seemed like moving the goal posts no matter if the referee of the game was Cooper or not.

It's like the weight went up to face reality and then that weight got dropped back down so only custom rifle owners and the inner sanctum could claim discipleship.

Anyone want to pick on this "Scout Rifle"?
https://deserttech.com/srs.php

 

[Llama Bob]

It's like the weight went up to face reality and then that weight got dropped back down so only custom rifle owners and the inner sanctum could claim discipleship.

That's exactly what happened, with an extra helping of angst because the lightest of the factory scouts is the lowly plastic stock Ruger.

Of course, if you want to put a Kimber 84M with a fluted pencil barrel in a Brown Poundr stock and get custom aluminium bottom metal for the kimber mags and have scout mounts made, I'm not going to stop anyone

 

[Garandimal]

Buy the GSR sight and be ready to drill and tap your receiver to mount it? I just don't know if mounting it would clear the bolt handle and one rear scope ring on your 77/357 or not?

I'd like to get/make a rear aperture sight that incorporated the integral base, like the rings. Take off the scope and put on the sight in it's place in the rear notch.

Have the OEM high rings that I could cannibalize.




GR

 

[Kendal Black]

Boy, if I can get the rear aperture sight from the RUGER GSR to work on my 5.5 lb RUGER 77/357...?

New England Custom Gun offers a rear aperture sight that mounts in the Ruger proprietary scope ring cuts. That looks like a simpler way to go.

https://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/Gun_Services/Peep_Sights.asp

I have been thinking about putting together an iron sights only sorta-pseudo-semi scout (SPSS for short). The trouble is, the older I get, the better I like smaller and smaller the sight apertures. The big "ghost ring" that Cooper recommended seems not to be my thing.

 

[chicharrones]

I have been thinking about putting together an iron sights only sorta-pseudo-semi scout (SPSS for short). The trouble is, the older I get, the better I like smaller and smaller the sight apertures. The big "ghost ring" that Cooper recommended seems not to be my thing.

Yep. I sure wouldn't mind if my GSR's ghost ring was threaded to accept different aperture inserts.

 

[Kendal Black]

Yep. I sure wouldn't mind if my GSR's ghost ring was threaded to accept different aperture inserts.

I am not sure the big aperture was ever the advance Jeff Cooper thought it was. Thing is, if you have a sudden close shot with no time to use a little aperture, you can do what Massad Ayoob recommended years ago, and hold so that the front blade appears just above the rear aperture, and rather coarsely and approximately centered above it. Then you use the front sight like a shotgun bead. Hits will be slightly high, so you hold slightly low.

 

[chicharrones]

I am not sure the big aperture was ever the advance Jeff Cooper thought it was. Thing is, if you have a sudden close shot with no time to use a little aperture, you can do what Massad Ayoob recommended years ago, and hold so that the front blade appears just above the rear aperture, and rather coarsely and approximately centered above it. Then you use the front sight like a shotgun bead. Hits will be slightly high, so you hold slightly low.

I do find the ghost ring useful in darker conditions. For instance, out of my three rifles with Williams sights with replaceable apertures, I usually have to unscrew the aperture for use in the woods.

 

[<*(((><]

I have a set of Skinner sights with the adjustable aperture on my Winchester 9422 and I love it. Just twist the outside of the sight and the aperture adjusts. It would have been a cool feature on my GSR's XS Rail sight.

 

[Charlie98]

My Socom16 (MY 'Scout' rifle...) came with a pretty big rear aperture, not really what you would call a ghost ring, and it works pretty well for quick target acquisition, but not what I would want for any sort of precision work... hunting, or reasonable target shooting beyond 50-60yds, etc. I replaced my rear with a standard aperture... even though the Socom has a fat front sight post, too.

 

[Garandimal]

New England Custom Gun offers a rear aperture sight that mounts in the Ruger proprietary scope ring cuts. That looks like a simpler way to go.

https://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/Gun_Services/Peep_Sights.asp

Pretty slick.

Pricey, but might just do the trick.

Thanks.




GR