Conceal carry etiquette in someone's home

Neither of the two homes that we hold Bible study in are my own. Both families have a slew of little kids and both sets of parents would likely freak out if they knew that I've carried every single time we've attended study in both of their homes. Why they would freak out... I don't know; because nothing unsafe has ever occurred from me carrying in their homes all these years.

And I highly doubt that they will ever learn that I carry everywhere, all the time. I don't get why some people feel the need to tell someone, anyone that they are carrying if they aren't bound by the law to do so. I take it that such divulging is a manner of bragging.

BigBore45 said:

i carry in peoples homes all the time. if they do not like it then i will leave and never talk to them again.

Click to expand...

Is not carrying for a few hours worth giving up a friendship? Now, if I had a friend that did not want to be around me when I'm carrying (regardless if it's at his house or not), I can see making that choice, but if it's just at his house? And what if the reason is because, say, his wife is the one who doesn't want the gun in the house? Are you going to stop being his friend because of his wife's views? I mean, that's fine if it works for you, but I guess to me, some friendships are worth not carrying for a few hours.

if they are worried about it then i take that as they are calling me to stupid to handle the gun safely. i am not friends with anyone who is anti-gun. the anti-gun people are to stupid for me to talk to.

Click to expand...

In the case with kids in the house, it's not about what YOU will do with the gun, but about what a KID might do. I don't mind if people carry in my house around my kids (provided they've never shown a tendency to be unsafe), but as soon as the gun comes off (for example, they are staying the night), I expect it to be secured. That in no way means I think my friend is 'to stupid to handle the gun safely', but it's solely based on the fact that young kids can, and do, get into places and things that they shouldn't.

NoVA Shooter said:

When someone chooses to leave a loaded gun, unsecured, in an environment that is out of their control next to them while they're sleeping with kids around, they have decided, and decided poorly.

Now, you may not have been making a blanket statement about all situations or that you yourself would do so, but even suggesting that it's okay to do so is potentially dangerous and ill-conceived advice that should not go unquestioned.

Also, the question was about kids. Kids come in all ages. Your general statement therefore covers 'young' and 'old' kids and everything in-between. I can't read your mind and assume that your comment was ONLY referring to older kids or kids that have proper instruction/awareness of guns.

Click to expand...

What are you talking about? I didn't make a general statement or a recommendation. I stated what I do. Without boring you with details, the short version is that what I do is completely safe and no child or kid of any age would be able to access my firearm. I suppose I could have written a page or so worth of why that it is, but I just don't feel like it lol

Generally speaking, people not involved with the gun culture would not even guess that I might be armed. That being said, if I stop by a house to pick up my kid from a friend's, I'll carry as long as there hasn't been previous "anti" discussion. If I'm actually engaging in socialization, I'm probably having a drink which then precludes me from carrying. I just don't mess with drinking and firearms.

Is not carrying for a few hours worth giving up a friendship? Now, if I had a friend that did not want to be around me when I'm carrying (regardless if it's at his house or not), I can see making that choice, but if it's just at his house? And what if the reason is because, say, his wife is the one who doesn't want the gun in the house? Are you going to stop being his friend because of his wife's views? I mean, that's fine if it works for you, but I guess to me, some friendships are worth not carrying for a few hours.

Click to expand...

Bingo. I have friends (whom I have known my entire life) who are not "gun guys", they hunt, have no real issues with guns, etc. They've married women who are very "anti-gun", as in they barely tolerate hunting (so that's a win) but CCW and hand guns are a no no.

Am I to disregard dozens of years of friendship because my friend's wife prefers I leave my CCW in my truck when I visit?

do not permit anyone to carry into mine

Click to expand...

- Water-Man

Do you have a "no guns" sign? Do you ask everyone entering your home if they are carrying? I'm honestly curious, how do you "not permit" them?

Well...."not permitting" doesn't mean nobody does it, after all

NoVA Shooter said:

When someone chooses to leave a loaded gun, unsecured, in an environment that is out of their control next to them while they're sleeping with kids around, they have decided, and decided poorly.

Now, you may not have been making a blanket statement about all situations or that you yourself would do so, but even suggesting that it's okay to do so is potentially dangerous and ill-conceived advice that should not go unquestioned.

Also, the question was about kids. Kids come in all ages. Your general statement therefore covers 'young' and 'old' kids and everything in-between. I can't read your mind and assume that your comment was ONLY referring to older kids or kids that have proper instruction/awareness of guns.

Click to expand...

What are you talking about? I didn't make a general statement or a recommendation. I stated what I do. Without boring you with details, the short version is that what I do is completely safe and no child or kid of any age would be able to access my firearm. I suppose I could have written a page or so worth of why that it is, but I just don't feel like it lol

Click to expand...

Good grief, that's well said!

The "OMG SAFETY!11!!1" argument is always achingly poignant and superficially valid.

Obviously, none of us is willing to be UN-safe in any matter having to do with firearms. To claim so or to read into someone else's statements a willingness to be so is simply spurious.

Of course you would tailor your procedure to the exact circumstance of the moment. That sort of seems like it would go without saying, but as we so often learn again here, if you don't say so, someone will go all ape-crap about the dire implications of whatever it was that you actually didn't say.


...

So, yeah, if you're in a situation where closing (and locking?) the door to the guest bedroom and unloading your firearm and placing it inside your suitcase or nightstand right next to you ISN'T safe enough to prevent unauthorized firing by the host's kids for the few hours while you're asleep next to it -- duh, lock it up.


FWIW, I've never met any 1-5 year olds who could figure out how to, and have the strength to, load a handgun -- especially right next to me while I sleep. And I've never met any 9-18 year olds who COULD who couldn't figure out which of my keys might open the lock box ... while they're in my locked bedroom stealthily attempting to load and fire my handgun that they wouldn't have suspected the presence of anyway...


Safety's great and all, but we can blow things so far out of proportion as to make caricatures of ourselves.

FWIW I generally use a mechanical combination style lock so that somebody can't get in super easy with the keys (my <2 year old daughter started putting keys into keyslots months ago for crying out loud) AND so that I can't lose the key(s) myself, or waste time looking for it when I need the gun.

For the specific circumstance I alluded to earlier the door to the room we're sleeping in is closed, and it's very sticky and loud while I am a light sleeper especially there, and the room is so small that in order to get to where I keep the gun next to where I sleep you would -literally- have to climb over the top of me in the bed to get to it, as the bed goes all the way from against one wall to flush against the tall dresser which is against the other wall. Also the bed is not particularly large and I am not particularly short so there's no room to go across the bed without going across me.

There also aren't any children in the house that would be alone on that level of the house to begin with, it just wouldn't happen, ever.

FWIW

One challenge in disclosing to homeowners is that very few people can keep a matter in confidence anymore. Is there a security risk in a very broad circle of people knowing that you carry? If so, better to keep it private.

Another concern is the propensity for stories to change as the rumor gets passed along. At some point in the retelling, there is a risk that what begin as a disclosure of being armed turns into brandishing the firearm.

Disclosure of carrying a firearm is fertile ground for rumor an exaggeration. I recall an instance of an instructor bringing an unloaded bullet into a private school classroom that was purportedly conservative and friendly to firearms. By the time it got back to the headmaster, the teacher was disciplined for bringing loaded ammunition into the school.

Perhaps better to be private than falsely accused.

Berger.Fan222 said:

One challenge in disclosing to homeowners is that very few people can keep a matter in confidence anymore. Is there a security risk in a very broad circle of people knowing that you carry?

Click to expand...

I think there is, yes, in a number of ways.

A personal example: We went to an airshow some years ago. Parking was far enough away, due to the venue, that they provided shuttle buses from the lot to the beach where everything was located. There were no signs, notifications, or restrictions mentioned or posted until you were just about to get off the bus, at which point they announced no weapons, no alcohol, no glass, and there was a cop with a wand standing at the bus door.

Somebody I was with looked at me and blurted out "What are you going to do with it?" after they said no weapons. About half the bus started staring at me. *sigh* (and I actually had two guns plus a pocket knife and OC on me...this was in Gary IN)

Other possibilities:
-A situation unfolds and they say "why don't you shot him", or some variation thereof
-They actually instigate or further a situation because they feel "safe' in doing so with you as "backup", or whatever
-They are illogical, emotional individuals who actually think people who carry guns do it because they are looking for trouble or involved with the 'wrong sorts' of people, and that perception colors their judgment of you and possibly how they interpret your actions or even report your actions to other people



Now, that said, I do open carry sometimes. But very few people outside of family know that I am always armed, and I know for a fact that many people assume I am not armed when they don't see it, for whatever reason...so I don't generally let people 'in' on the -always carrying- thing I have going
-

Most of my friends who would invite me to their house know I carry none have objected. When I travel with a friend, mostly fishing trips I do inform them I'm carrying.

I had a situation going to the Auto show in Detroit. I checked the website, no mention of weapons allowed or not allowed. AFTER I paid for the tickets, there is a line to get in and a security guard wanding people. I decided I would show him my permit and demand that they allow me to check my pistol (a 4" 1911) at the Detroit police mini station in the building. I showed him my permit and he told me to show it to the guy taking tickets. He then wanded me and somehow missed the 4" 1911 inside my waistband. I just went on in to the show. But my buddy didn't say anything.

It is not rude -- at all -- to be armed.

Click to expand...

It is if you know that your host/hostess does not want them in their home. Whether or not you then decline to enter is one thing, but I would respect their wishes in their home regarding this.

Turnabout

Am I to disregard dozens of years of friendship because my friend's wife prefers I leave my CCW in my truck when I visit?

Click to expand...

So... they are seriously willing to disregard dozens of years of friendship because they don't want to learn the simple truth about this issue?

And that's what's called a "friendship" these days?

Wow.

This has been discussed before, but not is several months. It usually ends up that concealed is concealed, and there is no reason to bring it up unless you are asked.

Regarding my post about staying with a family with kids. I'd never leave it "nearby" when I'm asleep and assume I have control of it. You don't know if the kids are going to wander in at 6 AM and start poking around. You might be on the couch with a 7 year old looking to watch cartoons and eat cereal and hey -- what's that on the end table?

I also wouldn't unload it at night, because I'd have to reload the next day and that introduces the (remote) chance of slam-fire. I don't think they have an adequate backstop, and frankly if there were an AD, I'd never be invited back. It stays loaded in the holster.

I think the best option is to bring a mini vault and keep it in my luggage. Hope they don't find the keys while I'm asleep.

Warp said:

I think there is, yes, in a number of ways.

A personal example: We went to an airshow some years ago. Parking was far enough away, due to the venue, that they provided shuttle buses from the lot to the beach where everything was located. There were no signs, notifications, or restrictions mentioned or posted until you were just about to get off the bus, at which point they announced no weapons, no alcohol, no glass, and there was a cop with a wand standing at the bus door.

Somebody I was with looked at me and blurted out "What are you going to do with it?" after they said no weapons. About half the bus started staring at me. *sigh* (and I actually had two guns plus a pocket knife and OC on me...this was in Gary IN)

Other possibilities:
-A situation unfolds and they say "why don't you shot him", or some variation thereof
-They actually instigate or further a situation because they feel "safe' in doing so with you as "backup", or whatever
-They are illogical, emotional individuals who actually think people who carry guns do it because they are looking for trouble or involved with the 'wrong sorts' of people, and that perception colors their judgment of you and possibly how they interpret your actions or even report your actions to other people

Click to expand...

Warp, you've made some great points. Thanks for sharing. My recommendation is that one's carry habits only be disclosed within a very tight circle where such knowledge can be held in strict confidence and is much more likely to be an asset than a liability in "situations."

Concealed. 'Nuff said.

All of my buddies know I'm a "gun nut" anyways... They'd be silly to think I wasn't carrying all the time. LOL

But yeah, what someone doesn't know wont hurt them. If I printed, which hey, it happens... I would attempt to explain that I'm licensed to carry that way and ask if they'd like me to put my gun up... if so, it goes in the car.... If not, we take it out back and shoot beer bottles! WOO!

I'm with RC on this, don't ask, don't tell.

But I really don't associate with anyone who is anti, or paranoid about firearms. So the odds of me being in someone else's home that is not comfortable in my world, is highly unlikely. But, when on rare occasions that I am in someone else's home that doesn't know I carry, I simply keep that information confidential, as I believe it should be.

GS

Sam1911 said:

Good grief, that's well said!

The "OMG SAFETY!11!!1" argument is always achingly poignant and superficially valid.

Obviously, none of us is willing to be UN-safe in any matter having to do with firearms. To claim so or to read into someone else's statements a willingness to be so is simply spurious.

Click to expand...

To Sam and Warp, the comments I am addressing were made in response to someone asking "suppose you're visiting a friend for a few days and staying overnight in their house. They have children. What is your course of action?"

Of course you would tailor your procedure to the exact circumstance of the moment. That sort of seems like it would go without saying, but as we so often learn again here, if you don't say so, someone will go all ape-crap about the dire implications of whatever it was that you actually didn't say.

Click to expand...

When someone suggests it is not a concern or presumes that kids won't be access your belongings, maybe more people should "go all ape-crap". When you start with "Is this really a concern?" I certainly am not going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume anything goes without saying. Would you respond to a parent's concern about how you are going to store a firearm when you're asleep in their house where their kids are with, "Is this really a concern?" Of course it is and as a parent, I would require specifics and not just assume it goes without saying that you will secure your firearm in a manner that is okay with me when my kids are involved.

In regard to what Warp said, he said "... or I bring my small traveling safe (like I use when checking at the airport) and lock it in that when necessary." I don't see why there is an 'or'. What is deemed as necessary and who makes that decision? Does a guest have to be told it's necessary before they secure their firearm before going to sleep? By including an either/or statement, it suggests that locking up a firearm, in the situation that was presented, is not a given. I have never stayed at someone else's house where my gun was not secured (either by being on me or locked) when kids are present. There are no other options for me so there's no quantitative or qualitative decisions that I need to make to determine if it's necessary.

Safety's great and all, but we can blow things so far out of proportion as to make caricatures of ourselves.

Click to expand...

FWIW, if it's something simple and cost effective, safety can never be blown out of proportion. I agree that the odds that a young kid (1-5 year old) could figure out how to, and have the strength to, load a handgun is very very low, but if there's a simple/cost effective procedure that would eliminate (or at least further reduce those odds), why not do it? I don't believe that just because something can happen that it eventually will happen, but I am a firm believer in risk management.

Yes, I may have gone "ape-crap" but then again, I've never had an ND, I've never let a lapse in gun safety put anyone in harm's way and and it keeps me vigilant so mistakes aren't made. And just like a ND, I believe gun related accidents with children are 100% avoidable.

NoVA Shooter said:

Is not carrying for a few hours worth giving up a friendship? Now, if I had a friend that did not want to be around me when I'm carrying (regardless if it's at his house or not), I can see making that choice, but if it's just at his house? And what if the reason is because, say, his wife is the one who doesn't want the gun in the house? Are you going to stop being his friend because of his wife's views? I mean, that's fine if it works for you, but I guess to me, some friendships are worth not carrying for a few hours.



In the case with kids in the house, it's not about what YOU will do with the gun, but about what a KID might do. I don't mind if people carry in my house around my kids (provided they've never shown a tendency to be unsafe), but as soon as the gun comes off (for example, they are staying the night), I expect it to be secured. That in no way means I think my friend is 'to stupid to handle the gun safely', but it's solely based on the fact that young kids can, and do, get into places and things that they shouldn't.

Click to expand...

First off yes, if they or there wife do not want a gun in there home that i carry for defense i will not talk to them they are ignorant and i have no place in my life for this. its like saying marshmallows are gross before you ever try one. its like a friend not letting you carry a bottle opener into there home. the bottle opener, like a firearm is an object that with the wrong use is dangerous especially with children.( or pillow or screwdriver, or anything really you can think of.) second i do not stay at friends homes with there children. i get a motel room. but if i were to stay in a home with children i would lock it up as i do at my home for the night.

Being that I ask myself what would my Japanese friend, who is like a brother to me, would do in the situation, I would leave the gun in my car without even asking. I'm confident in my hand-to-hand self defense abilities that I could disarm someone before they could cause harm. Nobody in this day and age I know in real life, even when I've been in Hong Kong and the PRC, would leave their doors not deadbolted at all times. Therefore an intruder would make a lot of noise trying to get in, and I'd have the ability to make time to get into a position to sneak up on him if he got in.

It is unsecured places or places where people can come and go, such as stores, restaurants, and the like, where I'd be more apt to carry a gun concealed. Being that I've been too lazy to get mine, it hasn't bothered me one bit.

NoVA Shooter said:

In regard to what Warp said, he said "... or I bring my small traveling safe (like I use when checking at the airport) and lock it in that when necessary." I don't see why there is an 'or'. What is deemed as necessary and who makes that decision? Does a guest have to be told it's necessary before they secure their firearm before going to sleep? By including an either/or statement, it suggests that locking up a firearm, in the situation that was presented, is not a given. I have never stayed at someone else's house where my gun was not secured (either by being on me or locked) when kids are present. There are no other options for me so there's no quantitative or qualitative decisions that I need to make to determine if it's necessary.

Click to expand...

You act as if you are the one and only person allowed to make the decisions for us. The purpose of this thread isn't for a random poster, such as myself, to list out every single variable so that you can pass judgment and tell us whether or not we are doing it correctly.

But I partially did that anyway. You seem to have missed or ignored that post

Warp said:

For the specific circumstance I alluded to earlier the door to the room we're sleeping in is closed, and it's very sticky and loud while I am a light sleeper especially there, and the room is so small that in order to get to where I keep the gun next to where I sleep you would -literally- have to climb over the top of me in the bed to get to it, as the bed goes all the way from against one wall to flush against the tall dresser which is against the other wall. Also the bed is not particularly large and I am not particularly short so there's no room to go across the bed without going across me.

There also aren't any children in the house that would be alone on that level of the house to begin with, it just wouldn't happen, ever.

FWIW

Click to expand...

-----------

NoVA Shooter said:

FWIW, if it's something simple and cost effective, safety can never be blown out of proportion. I agree that the odds that a young kid (1-5 year old) could figure out how to, and have the strength to, load a handgun is very very low, but if there's a simple/cost effective procedure that would eliminate (or at least further reduce those odds), why not do it? I don't believe that just because something can happen that it eventually will happen, but I am a firm believer in risk management.

Click to expand...

For most semi autos, with the action closed, I think the odds that a 1-2 year old could figure out how to, and have the strength to, load it, are actually zero.

Hell, the 1 year old my not even be able to walk yet, may just be able to stand or 'walk' while holding onto furniture or whathaveyou, and wouldn't even be able to get to it if it was on a desk or dresser or whatever that is above reach from standing on the floor. And the strength to rack the slide? ha! Not a chance. Not that they would be allowed to roam the house freely and without supervision including going up the stairs by themselves to the guest bedroom where there is an unloaded pistol on the desk they somehow magically fly to retrieve and then take steroids that work in 2 minutes so they can get super human (for a 1 year old) strength to work the slide while also being a genius and figuring out how to insert a live round.

This has been covered,but

As long as you asked.

I am of the VERY FIRM opinion that my RIGHT to carry is one that was given me by powers that a homeowner or Govt cannot remove.

I carry to be safe,no matter where I am.

I am sure that I have been in homes where CCW would be frowned upon ---- if known.

IF it were made very clear to me that being armed and in a persons home was NOT welcomed ,I would not go there.

Yes,I am that stubborn and of the belief that I am correct as to my convictions.