'Scout' Rifle: Where to start?

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Corpral_Agarn

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My little brother wants a 'scout' type rifle. He asked if I would help him with spec'ing one out.

He is looking at the Ruger GSR.
He asked me about Steyr as well, and I don't know anything about their rifles.

Caliber is likely to be 308.

What does THR know about Scout style Rifles and how do I help guide him to a good rifle/setup?
What should I be looking at?
What should I know?

Thanks!
 
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What does he want it for? If it's just for the joy of having a scout rifle, I get that. If he has some practical application in mind, it might be better to build around the intended uses.
 
What does he want it for? If it's just for the joy of having a scout rifle, I get that. If he has some practical application in mind, it might be better to build around the intended uses.
Honestly, I think he just wants one.

He is going to be on the .gov payroll for the next 3.5 years and I think he is looking for something to play around with.
 
My little brother wants a 'scout' type rifle. He asked if I would help him with spec'ing one out.

He is looking at the Ruger GSR.
He asked me about Steyr as well, and I don't know anything about their rifles.

Caliber is likely to be 308.

What does THR know about Scout style Rifles and how do I help guide him to a good rifle/setup?
What should I be looking at?
What should I know?

Thanks!
 
I have two Steyr scouts (these are the original first generation, one is a Cooper model), they are incredibly accurate but have some amount of recoil. I would very highly recommend these if you are looking for a bolt action, classic scout. I don't have any experience with the Ruger or Savage offerings but they seem worthy. Also, Mossberg is worth a look.

For the last many years or so I have also been experimenting with AR platform scouts. I have recently settled on the 6.5 Grendel as my 'scout' caliber. If you're inclined to go this route and don't want to build one, I would start with a Hardened Arms as a lower cost alternative.

49220170515108pm16socomrifle-3.jpg

https://www.hardenedarms.com/ecProduct_492

For a scope, I have had several and I have settled on the Leupold Firedot Scout scope. I find the 'firedot' acts similarly to a red dot:

61kXXaQL2wL._SX425_.jpg

https://www.leupold.com/scopes/compact-scopes/vx-r-1-5-5x33mm-scout

https://www.opticsplanet.com/leupol...holRTo62oQ3MuWd6e4XfBvj3HqgIV0zoaAkn4EALw_wcB

Here's my current setup - this photo is the 5.56 upper (it's exactly 8 lbs. unloaded all-in):

unnamed1_zpsee736fb4.jpg
 
I have a Ruger GSR and really like it. Mine is a 16” with laminate stock, .308, and it serves as my deer rifle. I got the 16” because I shoot it suppressed 99% of the time, and wanted to keep down the overall length. If I could change one thing it would be the laminate stock for synthetic, to reduce the weight a bit. Also, I use it with a traditional scope, not a forward mounted scout.
 
Does he really want a "Scout Rifle" or does he just want a short, handy, lightweight-ish rifle for general use? I bought A and decided that what I had really wanted was B. There are a lot more B options than strict A options.
 
If he just wants “one” get something with enough rails on it to mount a pistol scope way forward, he can then also put any rifle scope on it too.
 
Does he really want a "Scout Rifle" or does he just want a short, handy, lightweight-ish rifle for general use? I bought A and decided that what I had really wanted was B. There are a lot more B options than strict A options.

There is the religious discussion and there's the practical discussion.

For me, it was about the most useful general purpose rifle.

1. Practical hunting and SD distance (ie. 300 - 600 yds).
2. Quick target acquisition while also having some practical magnification.
3. Relatively lightweight
4. Significant caliber allowed for hunting in most states
5. Easy reloading
6. Sling for steadying offhand shots.

In my latest incarnation seeking the grail 'do everything' rifle, I also added a light and an FVG holding batteries for said light.
 
If he wants a "scout" rifle that comes as close as possible to Coopers concept the Ruger GSR would be my top pick. The Styer and Savage would get a look. I had one of the original Savage Scouts briefly. The newer version is a much better rifle.

Personally I don't want a true scout. I don't want anything to do with a forward mounted scope. In fact I firmly believe that even Cooper would revise his specs with today's optics and rifles. And the Ruger GSR and Savage will allow conventional scope mounting. I can't say about Styer.

His recommendation of a forward mounted scope was primarily due to his use of military rifles which could be loaded via stripper clips which couldn't be used with a scope over the action. With DBM rifles holding 5-10 rounds available, plus much better optics that allow quick target acquisition when mounted conventionally they are no longer needed. In fact are in the way.

I do like short, lightweight, handy bolt action carbines with low powered scopes mounted conventionally for a lot of uses. And there are lots of options. I have one of the Ruger Predators in 308 that takes the 3,5, and 10 round AICS magazines that fills the scout role for me. Cost me $395 shipped + $5 transfer fee.

The GSR is a very good rifle, probably better. But not $400-$500 better to me . I'd be paying for features I don't want. But I'd not advise anyone to not buy one, they are good rifles.
 
I had a Steyr Scout in .308, and regret selling it. The Steyr will allow conventional scope mounting or forward mounting. I prefer a conventional mount, and with today’s 1-4, 1-6, and 1-8 variable optics the “scout scope” forward mounting concept is not worth your time.

The Steyr has some neat features and was a light handy little rig, and my example was plenty accurate. I liked the integrated bipod, flush sling mounts, and the storage for the 2nd magazine in the stock. The control layout was also excellent.

I should probably buy another one.
 
Personally I don't want a true scout. I don't want anything to do with a forward mounted scope. In fact I firmly believe that even Cooper would revise his specs with today's optics and rifles.
I picked up a .308 Savage scout rifle, but, like jmr, did not want the forward mounted scope. Love the handy short barrel, but changed scope mount in favor of conventional mounted 4.5-14 Burris for predator hunting. Was never happy with muzzle blast but lived with it but lost the muzzle brake after firing the rifle once, not realizing ear muffs were not seated properly! :what: Great little predator rifle but don't think I'd ever adjust to a forward mounted scope.

35677806585_84f880216e_z.jpg

Regards,
hps
 
That’s a healthy coyote! Nice setup there!

I have a Ruger GSR that I’m waiting not to be busy to do some load development for. But like others have said I don’t care for the forward scope position but do like all the other features the GSR has (detacheable mags, 3 position safety, controlled round feed, backup irons, 18” Stainless barrel threaded for a suppressor)., what’s not to love?

But an AR in 6.8 SPC II would make for a potent scout setup as well (as others have mentioned).
 
I would start with a military intermediate length Mauser 98 action, ya got to have integral stripper clip capabitlity, especially with the forward mounted scope.
 
But an AR in 6.8 SPC II would make for a potent scout setup as well (as others have mentioned).

The scout was acquired to replace a Dtech 243 WSSM AR which IMO, is the perfect predator rifle, but which has unfortunately been banned by the owner of the ranches I do predator control on. The .308 w/125 gr. NBT's is a hammer (as was the AR), but I'm still trying to get used to a bolt gun again, and I had just gotten used to the AR's. Hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

Regards,
hps
 
...In fact I firmly believe that even Cooper would revise his specs with today's optics and rifles. And the Ruger GSR and Savage will allow conventional scope mounting. I can't say about Styer.

His recommendation of a forward mounted scope was primarily due to his use of military rifles which could be loaded via stripper clips which couldn't be used with a scope over the action. With DBM rifles holding 5-10 rounds available, plus much better optics that allow quick target acquisition when mounted conventionally they are no longer needed. In fact are in the way....

If JMR40 hadn't said it, I would have. The LER scope was the best solution to several issues (not just clearing the action for loading, but optical and mounting issues) at the time, and it was clever. Then. Technology moves on. Cooper got, as we do, curmudgeonly in is old age, and failed to shift positions, but younger Cooper would, I think, have embraced a number of other ideas, and maybe have e.g. merged his Thumper with his Scout; a short/light AR in .300BLK with an LVPO is an interesting gun if we get out of scriptural definitions, isn't it now?

So, if a light/handy rifle, several other offerings, and good scope (or even RDS+mag) options these days.
 
I remember back when Jeff Cooper was writing about his scout rifle idea in his G&A column. At the time I thought it was a good idea, but I almost certainly had a different idea of how it would be since my experience was vastly different than Jeff's. For me, I imagined it as a short-barrel, large bore, 30 to 200 yard range rifle with a forward-mounted, long-eye relief optic with a wide field of view and good low-light performance. You've got to remember that back then, red-dots, holographic and other reflex sights weren't generally available. Nowadays, we'd probably spec one of those types of reflex sights with an optional magnifier. But I think there's also merit in refractor scopes that will go down to 1X. Back in the day, the best I found was 1.5X.

Jeff's idea was bolt-action. Today, there's a lot of very good and affordable AR10 actions that weren't really on the market at that time. Of course they existed, but the market was totally different. Back in the day, I explored the idea using a Model 70 and a Mauser 98 action. If I were to do it again, I'd start with a consideration of the caliber and weight I wanted. For a lighter gun to carry in the field, a T3X Lite could be a good starting point. The barrels are as short as 20" from the factory, and they can be cut down and crowned fairly easily or a muzzle device added. An AR10 platform is going to be heavier. It's also worth looking at the M1 action if weight isn't a primary concern. The Springfield SOCOM 16 and Scout models fit the role, but would easily break 10 pounds with some optics. Jeff's spec topped out at 7.7 lbs.

I wouldn't rule out a big-bore lever action like the Marlin 1895. They're short, and they have "tactical" models now with a rail. Add a wide field of view optic of your choice and they'd absolutely meet the scout rifle concept criteria with a shorter action than most any other. .45-70 won't deliver as much energy at long range, and the drop is significant, but to me the scout rifle idea was never for long range. But today we have more and more rifles built around cartridges designed for VLD bullets that can hold a lot of energy out to 1000 yards, even better than .308. The Scout rifle was never a precision rifle concept, but it was a "general purpose" rifle, and your idea of "general" might involve a broader range of purposes than what was conceivable in the 1980's.
 
Pre-G I saw some folks make Scout-like 1987s, and I think even someone hacked up a .308 Savage 99, both to take forward scopes, get the right sling etc. Seemed like good solutions to me also (I have a weird thumb so cannot use loading gates on the Marlin, but for most people: good idea) but I recall arguments, on the API list etc. that they were blasphemy as not a bolt rifle. Too bad.

We do need to keep in mind that end-requirements matter more than lists of features for working guns. I'd love to see this discussion continue, see what else a general purpose Scout-like rifle could be in 2018.
 
Not a scout but designed this mount for M1 to solve the problem of iron sights and old eyes.
View attachment 796162

View attachment 796163

Regards,
hps
That is perfect in my opinion! The scout rifle was about being handy, light, reliable, and durable/powerful enough for any general use. It was designed for bad breath range to 300 yards or so, and a rifle that would never be out of arms reach. Easily reloadable, and able to be topped off with the mag in the gun too. So, nowadays for me, that could be my lever gun or my lightweight open sighted cz 527. I did mount a red dot to the front scope base on my Savage 110 carbine, and I can say it was very fast on target.

If we choose to modernize coopers concept, I believe a properly scoped ar15 could fit the bill in a heavier caliber like the Grendel or 6.8spc, but a bolt gun with a slick, controlled feed action can be amazingly fast to operate with just a little practice.

I also agree that Cooper probably would have enjoyed the quality red dots with magnifiers that we have now as opposed to the failure prone stuff he was exposed to when writing about the scout rifle. Remember, above all else, the scout rifle has to work NO MATTER WHAT.
 
I went with the Ruger GSR with the synthetic stock. It is lighter than the laminate and has a good muzzle break. Got a couple extra five round mags, the XS Rail and a Spec Tech Trigger. I am not much for the scout mounted forward scope. So I went with a Vortex Scope. The muzzle break on the GSR is very efficient. Recoil isn't so bad. The XS rail has a sight it so with quick release mounts for the scope I have back up sights. I know the Steyr is the gold standard, but the Ruger with a couple mods comes in very close.
 
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