rainbowbob
Member
Then why on earth would you leave a firearm laying around where an "idiot" could get his hands on it?
carrying with one in the chamber
- Thread starter mylon
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Then why on earth would you leave a firearm laying around where an "idiot" could get his hands on it?
Mainsail
Member
King Ghidora said:
Well, I suppose if he’s that much of an idiot he’ll never figure out how that works.
So you’re comfortable leaving your Taurus with the thumb safety lying around?
ArchAngelCD
Member.
The only safety you really need is between your ears.
Lest see, the OP made this thread the same day he/she registered to the forum and hasn't been back since... Smells a little fishy to me...
DoubleAction
Member.
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- 233
I read statements about the Decockers on the Sig Sauers. The Decocker on these pistols safely lowers the hammer, while disengaging the sear, and activating the passive firing block. In order to unlock the in incorporated safeties of the Sig Sauers, simply apply pressure to the trigger.
Many idiots make the mistake of lowering the hammer manually, this by passes all the safety lock work on this pistol, rendered the pistol unsafe.
Many idiots make the mistake of lowering the hammer manually, this by passes all the safety lock work on this pistol, rendered the pistol unsafe.
DoubleAction
Member.
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It about safety and knowing your weapon. In order for a Colt single revolver's hammer to rest on a empty chamber, the cylinder has loaded as such, this can accomplish like this. Load the first round into the cylinder, skip the second chamber, load the 3rd chamber, then the 4th, 5th, and
the 6th chamber. Now safely lower the hammer to find it resting on a empty chamber. The six shooter Colt has just became a five shooter, for sake of safe carry.
The Sig Sauer Trigger Bar
This is Trigger Bar and it's relationship with the trigger.
You now see how the trigger bar is deactivated from contact with the passive firing block.The Trigger Bar will be move upward upon the movement of the the trigger.
The Bar works much like the disconnector on a 1911 assuring the the slide is full battery before the lock work is engaged. Another safety feature,
The Trigger Bar at rest and deactivated from contact with the passive firing block.
Okie dokie!
Today (I think) I've figured out the difference between a decock-safety and a decocker:
My S&W 5904 (in Beretta 92 fashion), has a decocker-safety that drops the hammer and sear block, and also deactivates the trigger until the lever is snapped back up off of the "safety" position. A Sig-type decocker drops the hammer and sear-block, but then springs back up and returns the trigger to a fire-ready DA condition. Do I have this right?
And... What other autos have the 5904/Beretta decocker-safety configuration?
Sorry I'm so ignorant.
Thanks,
Les
Today (I think) I've figured out the difference between a decock-safety and a decocker:
My S&W 5904 (in Beretta 92 fashion), has a decocker-safety that drops the hammer and sear block, and also deactivates the trigger until the lever is snapped back up off of the "safety" position. A Sig-type decocker drops the hammer and sear-block, but then springs back up and returns the trigger to a fire-ready DA condition. Do I have this right?
And... What other autos have the 5904/Beretta decocker-safety configuration?
Sorry I'm so ignorant.
Thanks,
Les
orionhawk
Member
I carry with one chambered in everything I carry (1911, XD, Glock, SW442)
I am quite certain I don't want to screw around with racking the slide while fending off an attacking dog or criminal.
I would be happier if I had manual safeties on my Glock and XD, though.
I am quite certain I don't want to screw around with racking the slide while fending off an attacking dog or criminal.
I would be happier if I had manual safeties on my Glock and XD, though.
Zerodefect
member
So far we have: 33 votes for carrying combat ready, 4 for empty chamber, 11 for get better training, and 12 for "I like turtles". Give or take, I can't count well on this planet.
Still some points that seem to be missed:
1.) Glocks don't go off unless the trigger is pulled! This has been tested in detail repeatedly. You can cock a Glock and drag it behind your truck on a dirt road and it'll still be cocked when you stop. This goes for the the XD, MP, SR9 as well.
1911's will not go off unless the trigger is pulled and the frame is squeezed.
Neither of these is possible in a decent holster.
2.) Keep the gun in a good holster. With my 1911 or Glock in a MTAC holster I cant get the gun to go off. Safety on/off, it deosn't matter. Would one of the empty chamber guys explain to me how to get these to go off on accident. I'm trying, darn things are laughing at my feeble attempts to ND.
3.) We are not trying to be macho. Almost all CCW or Police type defensive shotings go from "Everythings normal, I'm enjoying my day." to "Shots fired!" in less than 5 seconds at less than 10 feet. Every second counts. If you can't defend yourself quickly, your dead. Even the best get surprized. Every dashcam video of a fallen officer or a convenience store/gas station cam, that I've seen, has surprized me how fast it goes bad.
98% of the time you need your CCW, its going to be frightfully close and very, very fast.
4.) We have pistol competitions with set rules for each of 15 stages. Everyone has to do the same general thing in each stage. Sometimes we throw a stage or two requireing empty chamber starts. 98% of our fail to fires occur in this stage after the draw. My point: Your autoloading pistol is more likely to fail to feed and jam when you cock it by hand than when it cycles on its own. This data was odd to all of us. But it happens regularly.
5.) We respect your opinion. If your uncomfortable with one in the pipe thats fine. But it is a serious handicap, and its better to find a way or pistol that you feel better with. Would a revolver be a better idea?
I see alot of questions about types of carry for trigger styles still.
1911's- Cocked and locked, many other style but this is the best usually for CCW in a good holster. The 1911 was originally desighned without a safety. And its still as safe as most pistols even in condition 0. Assuming a good holster and good trigger disipline
Striker fired- Cocked and in a good holster is plenty safe. MTAC, VMII etc....They only go off when you pull the trigger. Kind off like cocked and locked because of the multiple desighn features (notice I did not say safeties) that keep them from fireing until the trigger is pulled.
DA/SA- hammer down, round in chamber, usually have a decocker or decocker&safety to get back to DA. Usually no safety needed if carried hammerdown due to the enormously stiff da pull.
I feel the best way to carry is with training, experience with the type of gun your carrying, disipline, and attention.
No amount of safeties added to a firearm or leaveing the chamber empty will make gun ownership safe for anyone that can't follow the basic rules.
Still some points that seem to be missed:
1.) Glocks don't go off unless the trigger is pulled! This has been tested in detail repeatedly. You can cock a Glock and drag it behind your truck on a dirt road and it'll still be cocked when you stop. This goes for the the XD, MP, SR9 as well.
1911's will not go off unless the trigger is pulled and the frame is squeezed.
Neither of these is possible in a decent holster.
2.) Keep the gun in a good holster. With my 1911 or Glock in a MTAC holster I cant get the gun to go off. Safety on/off, it deosn't matter. Would one of the empty chamber guys explain to me how to get these to go off on accident. I'm trying, darn things are laughing at my feeble attempts to ND.
3.) We are not trying to be macho. Almost all CCW or Police type defensive shotings go from "Everythings normal, I'm enjoying my day." to "Shots fired!" in less than 5 seconds at less than 10 feet. Every second counts. If you can't defend yourself quickly, your dead. Even the best get surprized. Every dashcam video of a fallen officer or a convenience store/gas station cam, that I've seen, has surprized me how fast it goes bad.
98% of the time you need your CCW, its going to be frightfully close and very, very fast.
4.) We have pistol competitions with set rules for each of 15 stages. Everyone has to do the same general thing in each stage. Sometimes we throw a stage or two requireing empty chamber starts. 98% of our fail to fires occur in this stage after the draw. My point: Your autoloading pistol is more likely to fail to feed and jam when you cock it by hand than when it cycles on its own. This data was odd to all of us. But it happens regularly.
5.) We respect your opinion. If your uncomfortable with one in the pipe thats fine. But it is a serious handicap, and its better to find a way or pistol that you feel better with. Would a revolver be a better idea?
I see alot of questions about types of carry for trigger styles still.
1911's- Cocked and locked, many other style but this is the best usually for CCW in a good holster. The 1911 was originally desighned without a safety. And its still as safe as most pistols even in condition 0. Assuming a good holster and good trigger disipline
Striker fired- Cocked and in a good holster is plenty safe. MTAC, VMII etc....They only go off when you pull the trigger. Kind off like cocked and locked because of the multiple desighn features (notice I did not say safeties) that keep them from fireing until the trigger is pulled.
DA/SA- hammer down, round in chamber, usually have a decocker or decocker&safety to get back to DA. Usually no safety needed if carried hammerdown due to the enormously stiff da pull.
I feel the best way to carry is with training, experience with the type of gun your carrying, disipline, and attention.
No amount of safeties added to a firearm or leaveing the chamber empty will make gun ownership safe for anyone that can't follow the basic rules.
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jwPhotographer
Member
First and foremost - there is no such thing as a firearm with no safety.
EVERY firearm ever made has a safety....it's right here.
(EDITED because tipoc makes a very good point below, and I feel I should clarify...)
That said, if you're not carrying one in the pipe when you are carrying a weapon intended to be the primary source of defense in a threat situation - what are you planning to do if a threat presents itself? Some fancy draw-while-charging maneuver? Asking the threat to please wait for a second while you charge your weapon?
There's no reason NOT to carry one in the chamber when carrying a weapon specifically for self-defense, other than being uncomfortable with the "safety" of that situation. If that's the case - then probably best not to carry at all.
EVERY firearm ever made has a safety....it's right here.
(EDITED because tipoc makes a very good point below, and I feel I should clarify...)
That said, if you're not carrying one in the pipe when you are carrying a weapon intended to be the primary source of defense in a threat situation - what are you planning to do if a threat presents itself? Some fancy draw-while-charging maneuver? Asking the threat to please wait for a second while you charge your weapon?
There's no reason NOT to carry one in the chamber when carrying a weapon specifically for self-defense, other than being uncomfortable with the "safety" of that situation. If that's the case - then probably best not to carry at all.
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tipoc
Member
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2006
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- 3,563
I may have said this before but Condition 3 can be a useful way to "carry" a 1911 or BHP, etc. if you have no need to bring the gun into action immediately. Especially if there are small children around and you are on a boat, camping in a tent with the gun in your sleeping bag, hunting where the handgun is not the primary weapon, etc.
Grown folk can decide this for themselves.
tipoc
Grown folk can decide this for themselves.
tipoc
luzyfuerza
Member
We have all seen shooters of all ages, weights, genders, and sizes who can't keep their finger off of the trigger when they are loading, unloading, examining, uncasing....etc. Keeping the finger off the trigger is doubly difficult in stressful situations unless you've trained for this eventuality.
The decision is simple: if you don't think that you have trained yourself well enough to keep your finger off of the trigger and you want to carry, then don't carry with one in the pipe. If you have paid the price to train yourself to do this correctly (and to maintain this skill) then feel free to carry with one in the pipe.
Its really simple...the decision is yours!!
The decision is simple: if you don't think that you have trained yourself well enough to keep your finger off of the trigger and you want to carry, then don't carry with one in the pipe. If you have paid the price to train yourself to do this correctly (and to maintain this skill) then feel free to carry with one in the pipe.
Its really simple...the decision is yours!!
A person who has to admit he's unable to keep his finger off the trigger when he doesn't want it to be there is admitting he's unable to follow the basic rules of gun safety.
A person who can't follow the basic rules of gun safety should not be handling or carrying a gun. Trying to compensate by leaving the chamber empty may delay the catastrophe for awhile but it won't prevent the inevitable outcome unless the person NEVER, EVER loads the chamber of the pistol.
A person who can't follow the basic rules of gun safety should not be handling or carrying a gun. Trying to compensate by leaving the chamber empty may delay the catastrophe for awhile but it won't prevent the inevitable outcome unless the person NEVER, EVER loads the chamber of the pistol.
Dan Crocker
Member
I carry my gun with 2 bullets in the chamber. It's double effective that way.
I carry (when I legally can) with a round in the chamber, but I also like turtles and think people should get training. What line am I in?Zerodefect said:
One is indeed supposed to train. If someone can't practice basic, safe gun handling, what the heck is he doing with a gun?luzyfuerza said:
Cactus Jack Arizona
Member
I've kicked this idea around in my head ever since I received my CCW. There are those who think that seconds count and that taking the time to pull the slide back or disengaging the safety could cost you your life if things went south in a hurry. Maybe they are correct.
However, I choose to carry with all my rounds sitting in my magazine. No matter how careful you may be, accidents happen. This prevents accidental discharges like the one your friend experienced.
*Public Service Announcement - Always treat your firearms as if they are chambered and without any type of safety.*
Remember, you can't recall a bullet once it has been fired.
However, I choose to carry with all my rounds sitting in my magazine. No matter how careful you may be, accidents happen. This prevents accidental discharges like the one your friend experienced.
*Public Service Announcement - Always treat your firearms as if they are chambered and without any type of safety.*
Remember, you can't recall a bullet once it has been fired.
Whether they're correct or not they're missing the more important issues associated with chamber empty carry.
1. Based on the results from the two 1000 rounds matches I've seen, manually chambering a round is a relatively error prone procedure. Failures to feed during this process easily outnumber failures to feed encountered during a shot string. Carrying chamber empty means you'll be performing a relatively error prone procedure under stress and at a time when you really don't need to screw up. In the last match, one shooter accidentally engaged the safety while racking the slide--twice.
2. You may not have two hands free. Yes, you CAN rack the slide on most autopistols without using a second hand, but that makes the procedure even more error prone and slower. It also usually depends on the type of clothing you're wearing, to some extent as well as the various aspects of the firearm to make the procedure work properly. Better think it all through and practice. A LOT.
3. It's NOISY. Yes, I know that many people think that racking a slide is a great deterrent/repellent for criminals, but it's not terribly hard to construct a very reasonable scenario in which getting your gun ready for action silently would be critical. Carrying chamber empty means you eliminate that option.
IMO people who carry chamber empty often overestimate or exaggerate the danger of having a round chambered and underestimate or downplay the disadvantages of having to chamber a round when the gun is needed.
Zerodefect
member
+1 John.
Also something I learned during a comp, Having to manually work the slide on a 1911 or Glock with an recoil spring 2 pounds stiffer than stock, covered in sweat, with skakey adrenalin filled hands is alot trickier than it seems.
I was ahead in a match and had to tap, rack, bang, so it was hardly real adrenalin, but they were all watching, so it wasn't like it was without pressure. Felt like it took forever.
Also something I learned during a comp, Having to manually work the slide on a 1911 or Glock with an recoil spring 2 pounds stiffer than stock, covered in sweat, with skakey adrenalin filled hands is alot trickier than it seems.
I was ahead in a match and had to tap, rack, bang, so it was hardly real adrenalin, but they were all watching, so it wasn't like it was without pressure. Felt like it took forever.
SharpsDressedMan
member
Very important to take finger out of the trigger guard when reholstering a Glock........
dmazur
Member
I didn't create this image, but I can't resist -
easyg
Member
....but only if you, or your girlfriend, "fingers the trigger".
In most situations, your reaction time must be less than 2 seconds. That's not enough time to clear leather, jack the slide, aim and squeeze the trigger.
This is why you should be very experienced at handling your Glock (or any firearm) before you carry it.
This is why you should be very experienced at handling your Glock (or any firearm) before you carry it.
NavyLCDR
member
SharpsDressedMan said:
But with other brands of firearms it's OK?!?
dmazur
Member
With a 1911 (or any pistol with a true safety which isn't part of the trigger), if you "space" things and don't maintain trigger discipline when reholstering, your finger gets pinched. PROVIDED that you have remembered to flick the safety on...
What is more likely, IMO, is that a shirt tail, etc. gets caught in the trigger area when reholstering. With a true safety, no harm done. With a "safe action" that can be deactivated by the foreign object, ND is possible.
What is more likely, IMO, is that a shirt tail, etc. gets caught in the trigger area when reholstering. With a true safety, no harm done. With a "safe action" that can be deactivated by the foreign object, ND is possible.
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