acmax95
Member
Seems like if you wanted to go that route, you would have grounds for a good lawsuit. Physical & emotional distress, false imprisonment, not to mention the damage to your good name.
Entertainment for the night...
- Thread starter PTK
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I work at walmart (sad to say). The policy is weird in that weapons are not allowed but no one does anything unless someone complains about it. What happened to you was wrong and I agree on letting the corporate office know. Things like this make me hate my job. Oh and I usually carry a similar amount of guns, even at walmart on my off time (dont tell!).
R.W.Dale
Member
In that case wouldn't it be more tactically advantageous to just carry the 5.7 and the other guns weight in extra ammo for it. I bet an XD weighs the same as well over 100rds of 5.7x28 ammo
Say What?
Wait. Either you are allow to carry at that Wal Mart or you are not allowed to carry at that Wal Mart. They can't ban you from Wal Mart just because you got caught carrying, unless they have a publically posted policy against doing so.
I'm kinda on the fence about the police officer's reaction. Seems it was quite wrong, on the other hand I'm sure they were quite surprised to find you had three guns and six mags +. You are my hereo but I can understand that there might be an overreaction there. It sound like they may have also been inconveniencing you to the point of 'teaching you a lesson'.
However, you should not have been told that you can't go back to a Wal Mart because you were 'made' UNLESS they have a no carry policy which you broke
Was the store posted, "no guns"?
Wait. Either you are allow to carry at that Wal Mart or you are not allowed to carry at that Wal Mart. They can't ban you from Wal Mart just because you got caught carrying, unless they have a publically posted policy against doing so.
I'm kinda on the fence about the police officer's reaction. Seems it was quite wrong, on the other hand I'm sure they were quite surprised to find you had three guns and six mags +. You are my hereo but I can understand that there might be an overreaction there. It sound like they may have also been inconveniencing you to the point of 'teaching you a lesson'.
However, you should not have been told that you can't go back to a Wal Mart because you were 'made' UNLESS they have a no carry policy which you broke
Was the store posted, "no guns"?
jordan1948
Member
Hahahaha this is such BS, not laughing at you but the fact that somone thought you were a crook because they saw you shoping for art supplies with a gun on your belt lol and the fact that it was in a holster I mean I could see if it was just shoved in your belt but if I see someone with a gun in a holster the only thing that comes to mind is either they're an off duty cop or they've got a permit
General Geoff
Member
You know, that's a good point, but having a backup platform is always nice. I'd have a second Five-seveN though, for ammunition sharing purposes. Still probably save on weight. And if he uses 30 round extra mags, just four would give him 120 rounds plus the 40 in the two guns. Talk about a one man army.
Honestly, the issue was a new cover shirt and the shirt getting caught on the mags. I need to go ahead and get better carriers that don't stick out.
I've been carrying these items without issue for about ten months now.
20 rounders.
No desire for such.
I carry extra mags because of clearance drills, and two fullsize guns because I want one strong side, one weak side. No matter what hand I can get at one with, I have a full-fledged gun.
No.
Two of the twelve cops thought so too.
I keep two fullsize handguns for previously mentioned reasons.
(Not that I won't consider this other option, though!
)Kind of Blued
Member
PTK, was it the one on Youngfield? I'm not sure that there is a WW closer to you...
I'm sorry you had to deal with this. From talking with you, I knew right from the start of the thread that you handled the situation flawlessly, but apparently the hassle brought forth from ignorant people is unavoidable.
I got hassled nice & hard when I went to go set up a court date to contest a "big brother camera" traffic violation the other day in Boulder...
...yeah. BOULDER. Yikes. I left both of my guns in the car (I'm with you here ), broke no laws, and was cheery as a tulip, but that didn't stop the hassle.
I'll recount it if anybody is interested. It was pretty funny.
I'm sorry you had to deal with this. From talking with you, I knew right from the start of the thread that you handled the situation flawlessly, but apparently the hassle brought forth from ignorant people is unavoidable.
I got hassled nice & hard when I went to go set up a court date to contest a "big brother camera" traffic violation the other day in Boulder...
...yeah. BOULDER. Yikes. I left both of my guns in the car (I'm with you here
), broke no laws, and was cheery as a tulip, but that didn't stop the hassle.I'll recount it if anybody is interested. It was pretty funny.
VARifleman
Member
Right on red and it said you were running the red?
A CDL former coworker got one because he entered the intersection while the light was green, was constantly accelerating, and it turned red while he was in there.
A CDL former coworker got one because he entered the intersection while the light was green, was constantly accelerating, and it turned red while he was in there.
armoredman
Member
Evan Marshall is quite partial to carry three guns at once, and with 23 years on Detroits streets as a homicide detective, I can respect his opinion. One quote he has is, "If you have time to reload, you're in a social disagreement, not a gunfight."I still carry two spare mags, but will get my second sidearm, very soon.
Aguila Blanca
Member
It only took 26 posts to get to this. We're slipping, people.
I agree. If you were handcuffed, you were effectively detained for suspicion of lawful activity. The police acknowledge that you didn't break any laws. You were standing in a checkout line when they walked in, so there was nothing to give rise to a "reasonable suspicion based on clearly articulable facts" (Terry stop language) that a crime was being committed or was about to be committed. Therefore, legally they didn't really have any right to lay a finger on you. In fact, since the incident didn't meet the criteria for a Terry stop or a Terry frisk, they had no right to disarm you even if it was for their safety. You really REALLY should sue them for false imprisonment.
Kind of Blued
Member
VARifleman said:
First of all, I don't want to hijack the thread, but since you asked...
I got a 7-4-3, basically "running a red light". I have two arguments to bring up, one being that there is no evidence as shown by the photographs to prove that the light was red before or during my entry into the intersection.
The other, if told that I was in violation, is that I acted as a reasonable and prudent person would have in the situation, given that protestors were wielding 6' tall color photographs of various aborted fetuses which are clearly visible in the surveillance photographs.
It's a long shot, but true. I'd say the argument has a decent chance in Boulder, the most... well, you'd just have to see it. It's $75. Not a big deal. I mentioned it to one of my law professors and he told me "if you don't use your rights, they'll go away", which most of us THR-ites are very familiar with. He also told me it looked like I could win the case as well.
Colfax and Wadsworth.
Kind words. Thank you.
Never heard of that person, but I'll have to look into their writings (if any)
For the folks that really think I carry excessive firearms, that's fine. I carry what I'm comfortable with.
How would I go about this? They told me repeatedly that I was not arrested, but that I wasn't free to go. What should I do?
Aguila Blanca
Member
You were not arrested, but you were "detained." Jump over to the legal forum here and run two searches. First, search on "Terry stop" and then on "Terry frisk." Try the same on Google. What you'll find is that before police can detain you they have to have a "reasonable suspicion based on clearly articulable facts that a crime has been committed, is being committed, or is about to be committed." If you were in Chicago or Washington DC, for example, where nobody can carry legally, the fact you had a gun would be sufficient "clearly articulable fact" to generate a reasonable suspicion of a crime (carry a gun).PTK said:
However, you are in a jurisdiction where citizens can carry legally. Absent any overt indication that you were not carrying legally (for example, if you were a convicted felon and the responding officer happened to remember arresting you before your conviction), there was nothing to indicate any crime in commission or about to be committed. That means they had no justification to detain you. They could have asked you if you had a permit ... and you could have asked in return "Why do you ask?" Once they establish that they had a complaint, then you show them the permit.
However, there was no basis for handcuffing you, and no basis for disarming you.
Talk to a lawyer. In a town the size of yours, there must be some law firms that take on cases about police misconduct. That's who you should talk to. Most will provide an initial consultation for no cost, and they can tell you from the facts you've recited here whether or not there's a likelihood you would win at trial. If they think you have a good case, they'll usually take it on a percentage basis, without charging you up front.
OK, thanks! Not likely I'll be stopping in that particular one, I'm very rarely around that area. I actually do remember having to go there late one night to get something for a work issue, and I don't blame you for packing three guns now.
I saw a woman there that looked like she was "unstable", to put it mildly. Her hair appeared to have never been combed/brushed, it was one big massive, matted dreadlock. Her whole head! It was bizarre, and she had the eyes of a lunatic. Glad I only saw her in the parking lot, and not inside the store.
loneviking
Member
I'm laughing at the thought that you were too well armed! Here in Reno, the latest fad seems to be three or four guys taking down a store. That's why I now have a S&W 65-6 for the left side, and at night, the Colt Peacekeeper 357 in a shoulder holster on the right---plus two speedloaders for each and 7 loose rounds for each carried in the concealment vest.
I'd seriously be considering some type of legal action against this police department and against that Wal-Mart.
I'd seriously be considering some type of legal action against this police department and against that Wal-Mart.
Ergosphere
Member
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Well, his first statement was political in nature...
VARifleman
Member
Source...
None of the stores I've ever been have been posted, and numerous letters and such have been posted on this forum in the past stating that their policy is as long as it's legal.
What the poster at the top of the page could be referring to is a ban on store workers carrying.
KC0QGL
Member
PTK, I had the same thing happen to me at the walmart here in Greeley, but I was out in the parking lot by the time the cops showed up. I was also OCing (pre CCW). And then again at the other walmart (yes we have 2, only 3 miles apart) no cops this time, only a night manager asking "Why are you carring a gun." (IWB on my back) My awnser was "I have the right to." Then I showed him my CCW (just to shut him up), then he said in a soft voice "I'll check with the home office to see if guns are aloud in the store." He then walked away with his head down, never heared form him again.
If you're going to conceal, do a good job of it.
PTK, what you carry is none of my business as long as it's legal. And of course, it is legal. I have always said that my choice to carry is my personal choice subject to no one else's opinion, and I give that same personal choice to every other person in the country. More power to ya, as we used to say.
I'm posting because your Colorado permit is recognized in almost half the other states, but some states distinguish carefully between concealed carry and open carry. If you choose to conceal your firearm, you must keep it concealed under all conditions. Your mistake was to let your cover garment reveal the weapon. Well, we all learn lessons in life, and this is a good one. If you're going to conceal, make sure you do a good job of it. Just a word to the wise.
[Just a personal observation - I don't have an appetite for suing everyone who does me wrong. I think I would take this opportunity to educate as many people as possible on the Second Amendment. Personally, I don't think I would sue anyone for detaining me. They are just doing their jobs. But educating the customer who got scared of you (and everyone else who would get scared) is probably the best High Road thing to do. Somehow lots of people got scared of guns. Let's get them cured of that. Best of luck, my friend.]
PTK, what you carry is none of my business as long as it's legal. And of course, it is legal. I have always said that my choice to carry is my personal choice subject to no one else's opinion, and I give that same personal choice to every other person in the country. More power to ya, as we used to say.
I'm posting because your Colorado permit is recognized in almost half the other states, but some states distinguish carefully between concealed carry and open carry. If you choose to conceal your firearm, you must keep it concealed under all conditions. Your mistake was to let your cover garment reveal the weapon. Well, we all learn lessons in life, and this is a good one. If you're going to conceal, make sure you do a good job of it. Just a word to the wise.
[Just a personal observation - I don't have an appetite for suing everyone who does me wrong. I think I would take this opportunity to educate as many people as possible on the Second Amendment. Personally, I don't think I would sue anyone for detaining me. They are just doing their jobs. But educating the customer who got scared of you (and everyone else who would get scared) is probably the best High Road thing to do. Somehow lots of people got scared of guns. Let's get them cured of that. Best of luck, my friend.]
Duke Junior
member
That is certainly correct.Wal-Mart HQ in Bentonville,Arkansas has no policy against legal firearms carry in their stores by customers in the U.S. of A.
Call them to verify:
If you're a customer, call 1-800-WAL-MART
If you're a journalist, call 1-800-331-0085
If I'm wrong call, 1-800-LONG-GON
Deus Machina
Member
I think you're overarmed. But if you can carry that much without it showing (usually, I guess) there's nothing suspicious about it.
The cops are your choice. They probably handcuffed you because of some overblown suspicion, but they should have asked to talk in private. That's up to you.
But I would lay a lawsuit on that store in particular for all the above reasons, and make a solid note that your right to carry was violated so corp doesn't get the idea to post a CCW ban so they can claim anyone that does the same is trespassing.
The only proper response from management would have been "Sir, we've had a complaint. Please pull your shirt down."
But if you can carry that much without it showing (usually, I guess) there's nothing suspicious about it.The cops are your choice. They probably handcuffed you because of some overblown suspicion, but they should have asked to talk in private. That's up to you.
But I would lay a lawsuit on that store in particular for all the above reasons, and make a solid note that your right to carry was violated so corp doesn't get the idea to post a CCW ban so they can claim anyone that does the same is trespassing.
The only proper response from management would have been "Sir, we've had a complaint. Please pull your shirt down."
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