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rduchateau2954
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Why do you think the cameraman survived to publish this picture?
Scout Rifles
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chicharrones
needs more ammo
Same goes for a Cooper "approved" scout rifle. It is a useful rifle for some applications. Both make good hunting rifles, though.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
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rduchateau2954
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It's 90° with 90% humidity today so I'm hiding indoors today wandering the gunternet. Mostly reading about the .35 whelen and 45-70. Both seem like decent scout gun calibers, but, I've just begun.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
There's a member around here that has a Ruger GSR rebarreled to .358 Winchester, if I remember correctly.
And just like some people somehow survive not using the perfect gun for every circumstance, some people actually get out in the woods wearing stuff that others dont.
A good Navajo hunter I know wore tennis shoes and jeans when he went out. His hunting food of choice was a couple doughnuts or sweet rolls before he went hunting.I find it somewhat amusing watching videos of the Kurds thumping ISIS in Syria. It looks like a great many of them wear tennis shoes. They also have girls fighting. Everybody knows you cant actually fight in tennis shoes, and that girls arent capable of fighting wars.
I see things in Caribous pics that many believe will lead to instant death if one happened to wander 30 feet off pavement, like wearing cotton in Alaska, and not carrying a huge knife, or a monster pistol, or a full pack of Survival! gear all the time.
ETA: RE the pic, the guy is in fact jumping over the logs. Its a bit amusing to see a comment basically saying he cant do whats hes doing.
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rduchateau2954
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I'm not sure I want to limit myself to the few basic offerings of a factory scout rifle. Especially since none of them meet with the "true scout" standards. I was thinking about maybe a short rifle with a good set of peep sights might be fun.
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rduchateau2954
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There is an M77 in .35 Whelen on GB. Maybe shorten the barrel, add a inconspicuous muzzle break, and a nice set of peep sights? Smell what I'm rolling in here?
If you have a good idea of what you want the rifle do do, and what you can do with the rifle, and it doesnt fit with somebody elses, then do what you want. My idea of a general purpose rifle will probably end up being a 20" barreled tang safety Ruger 77 with decent irons (rear will likely be a Lyman 56 milled flat to fit the Ruger receiver, the slide stowed under the butt pad) and a low to medium power (1-4 or 2-7) scope in the "normal" spot. Not sure if it will be a 260 or 308. If the shoulder gets better 308 may work.
wanderinwalker
Member
I like the way you think! My personal idea of a handy all-around rifle is either an old 18.5" barreled Remington Model 7 in .308 with a 2.5x Leupold scope, or possibly a .30-30 lever gun with a set of good aperture sights. The .260 would be a second-place in a bolt gun, as I do (sometimes) miss my old M700 Mountain Rifle in .260 Remington.
I've always been interested in the Scout-rifle concept since first reading of it back in the 90s when I was a teenager. Sadly most of the factory Scout-rifle offerings look too clunky for my tastes (and too much $$...). Right now I'm toying with the idea of adding a forward scope mount and scout scope to my Marlin 336. I'm aware the .30-30 cartridge is on the lower-end of the power scale for a general-purpose rifle, but I have the rifle and am already comfortable shooting it within 200-yards. And after adding a red dot to my AR-15 I'm opening up to the advantages of getting the sighting system away from the shooter's face.
Ultimately I think it's more important to adapt the tool to the needs you have envisioned, than try to make an ideal model to a fixed set of criteria.
Absolutely. Please don't get me wrong; just because the Ruger GSR doesn't meet the definition of a good Scout rifle doesn't mean it's not a good rifle. It's a 308 carbine, which is a pretty good niche, it's rugged, it comes with sturdy usable iron sights. It would make a nearly ideal truck rifle because in that application weight isn't very important and it's got a detachable magazine.
It's just that if you're going to market something as a Scout Rifle, and the Gunsite Scout rifle to boot, it really ought to be as close as possible to the vision of the man who founded Gunsite and defined the Scout Rifle. Unfortunately, the GSR doesn't really do that.
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rduchateau2954
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On the other side of this the thought of a 45-70 lever gun makes me smile as well.
All I really want to do is have something that will kill stuff from 50-300 yards. If I want to go visit my uncle in northern WI for bear, my mom in WY for elk and muleys, or my cousin in TX for hogs, I've got a rifle that can do the job without being the same thing as everyone else has.
Now I realize that a .270 will do it
Or a .260
Or a 30-06
Or a .308
Or a .... 7mm
Or ... a... zzzzzzzzz
ExAgoradzo
Member
Agreed. And I don't own anything in 6.8. My point was however that as a short range get-me-out-of-trouble-behind-the-lines round, I'm thinking it would be fine. More ammo for the weight, certainly enough punch for a fair bit, and in that platform perhaps the best CQBR ever. My understanding is that the cost and logistics kept it out of the field.
Greg
That old photo makes me kinda laugh. It's like some guy in a National Park parking lot got chased away by a bear.
I mean, he's not even dressed to be haulin' butt and hurdling logs in the woods. He's got tight jeans which restrict running, let alone hurdling, and he is wearing low top sneakers. Those sneakers are going to get the laces all pulled loose while his socks fill up with cockle burrs. He'd be running like mad while his shoes trip him or come off.
That's not an old photo...it was taken last week of a "hipster" in Portland.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
And just like some people somehow survive not using the perfect gun for every circumstance, some people actually get out in the woods wearing stuff that others dont.
I find it somewhat amusing watching videos of the Kurds thumping ISIS in Syria. It looks like a great many of them wear tennis shoes. They also have girls fighting. Everybody knows you cant actually fight in tennis shoes, and that girls arent capable of fighting wars.
I see things in Caribous pics that many believe will lead to instant death if one happened to wander 30 feet off pavement, like wearing cotton in Alaska, and not carrying a huge knife, or a monster pistol, or a full pack of Survival! gear all the time.
ETA: RE the pic, the guy is in fact jumping over the logs. Its a bit amusing to see a comment basically saying he cant do whats hes doing.
I'm just having fun with my observation. I know people can wear tennis shoes and do whatever they want. I also know my own experience running with tennis shoes in the great out doors. You double tie them so they stay on, but it won't stop all kinds of prickly crap from getting in your shoes, which makes you have to pull them off.
I've also tried to run in tight jeans playing sports when I was young. You can run, but if you raced yourself and your other self wore looser fitting pants . . . well one of your selves is going to smoke the other.
The main thing is, I was just having fun observing a photo staged for a publication. There is open ground to the left of that log.
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rduchateau2954
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I'm just having fun with my observation.
The main thing is, I was just having fun observing a photo staged for a publication. There is open ground to the left of that log.
Lol that's what I picked out. Maybe it's one of those crossfit events?
We now own three (3) GSR's, the latest with stainless action and synthetic stock. For our uses on the ranch, they have turned out to be the best jeep gun yet, being very rugged and reliable. I much prefer using an EIR optic, two of the examples using the Leupold 1.5X5 EIR Scout with Firedot Duplex reticle. For our purposes it works very well, and is fast.
Some time back, I attended the Scout Rifle class at Gunsite, and was fortunate in that industry folks, and one from Ruger were classmates. There was a lot of evening discussion about the concept, it's evolution, and why Ruger went with certain characteristics, and why others were left out. Needless to say, it was a very interesting and valuable experience.
For the type of hunting we use them for (game animals within three hundred yards), I really like it. I have since retired most all my other rifles in favor of the GSR's. While everyone has something they really like, the best you can do is to choose one particular platform, and then practice extensively, and practice some more. Practice from many different field positions, day and night, at known and unknown distances. Eventually the skill and confidence will build.
I know the Ruger version is not everything Jeff specified, but for us it works.
Some time back, I attended the Scout Rifle class at Gunsite, and was fortunate in that industry folks, and one from Ruger were classmates. There was a lot of evening discussion about the concept, it's evolution, and why Ruger went with certain characteristics, and why others were left out. Needless to say, it was a very interesting and valuable experience.
For the type of hunting we use them for (game animals within three hundred yards), I really like it. I have since retired most all my other rifles in favor of the GSR's. While everyone has something they really like, the best you can do is to choose one particular platform, and then practice extensively, and practice some more. Practice from many different field positions, day and night, at known and unknown distances. Eventually the skill and confidence will build.
I know the Ruger version is not everything Jeff specified, but for us it works.
35 Whelen
Member
Coopers definition of a Scout rifle has become so convoluted over the years that I'm not sure anyone even remembers the original criteria.
So, here it is, in depth.
Each of the criteria are very well thought out.
And here are a couple of what I think are near perfect examples that I put together, both in .308.
Mine:
My wife's:
35W
So, here it is, in depth.
Each of the criteria are very well thought out.
And here are a couple of what I think are near perfect examples that I put together, both in .308.
Mine:
My wife's:
35W
Sistema1927
Member
35Whelen,
Very nice. Your wife is a lucky woman.
Very nice. Your wife is a lucky woman.
35 Whelen
Member
I think most folks don't really know what a Scout does/did. This is an individual who precedes a group of people "scouting", reconnaissance, if you will . As such, this person is away from help, supplies, spare parts, ammunition, extra magazines, etc. That is why Cooper defined the Scout rifle as he did.
The backup sights are an essential part of the rifle because anyone who's spent anytime mucking about the woods knows there is a possibility of whacking a scope and ruining it or at the very least knocking out of zero. Both mine and my wife's Scout rifles are sighted in with the scope, and with the sights. If something happens to the scope, no big deal, it's easy to remove it and the rings with a coin of some makeshift screwdriver. Yet so many folks stick a scope out on the barrel of their sightless rifle and say "Look! I have a Scout rifle!".
The original caliber, .308 or 7.62x51 was thought out as well. In a military environment ammunition for this caliber should be fairly common and easy to come by. I would've SWORN the original criteria by Cooper dictated the ability to take game up to 400 kilos at a maximum distance of 400 meters, but I can't find that reference. Anyhow, that'd be another reason the .308 would be about perfect.
I personally far, far prefer a fixed box magazine. A removable magazine IMHO is just something else to either get lost or damaged.
As someone already pointed out, the shape of the rifle is of paramount importance. I own a litany of centerfire rifles, most of which are better suited for hunting than my Scout rifle. But the Scout is immeasurably handy and in fact the Parkerizing is pretty much worn off of the floorplate because I carry it mostly like the gentleman in the picture. I could never begin to count the number of deer and hogs that little rifle has sent to that big game preserve in the sky.
When I started taking my oldest daughter deer hunting, I loaded a 172 gr. RNHP cast bullet for her in the little Scout. Teaching her to use a scope was super easy with the forward mounted scope and she ultimately wound up taking her first three deer with the rifle.
35W
The backup sights are an essential part of the rifle because anyone who's spent anytime mucking about the woods knows there is a possibility of whacking a scope and ruining it or at the very least knocking out of zero. Both mine and my wife's Scout rifles are sighted in with the scope, and with the sights. If something happens to the scope, no big deal, it's easy to remove it and the rings with a coin of some makeshift screwdriver. Yet so many folks stick a scope out on the barrel of their sightless rifle and say "Look! I have a Scout rifle!".
The original caliber, .308 or 7.62x51 was thought out as well. In a military environment ammunition for this caliber should be fairly common and easy to come by. I would've SWORN the original criteria by Cooper dictated the ability to take game up to 400 kilos at a maximum distance of 400 meters, but I can't find that reference. Anyhow, that'd be another reason the .308 would be about perfect.
I personally far, far prefer a fixed box magazine. A removable magazine IMHO is just something else to either get lost or damaged.
As someone already pointed out, the shape of the rifle is of paramount importance. I own a litany of centerfire rifles, most of which are better suited for hunting than my Scout rifle. But the Scout is immeasurably handy and in fact the Parkerizing is pretty much worn off of the floorplate because I carry it mostly like the gentleman in the picture. I could never begin to count the number of deer and hogs that little rifle has sent to that big game preserve in the sky.
When I started taking my oldest daughter deer hunting, I loaded a 172 gr. RNHP cast bullet for her in the little Scout. Teaching her to use a scope was super easy with the forward mounted scope and she ultimately wound up taking her first three deer with the rifle.
35W
henschman
Member
I have always liked .35 Whelen's Scouts. I have a 7.62x51 Spanish Mauser based Scout as well, based on an FR-8. I have an Aimpoint on it right now rather than a LER scope, for more of a brush gun role. It is pretty cool in that the irons co-witness with the Aimpoint. Mine weighs 7.6 lbs. I've thought about trying to shave some more weight by trading the Fajen stock out for a lighter one such as the Choate, which is thinner and gets rid of all the heavy bottom metal, but I'm afraid the only way the FR-8 will make ideal Scout weight (6.6 lbs.) is to get a lighter profile barrel as well.
I've given some thought to a Remington 600 as a Scout type project too. They start out over a full lb. lighter than the FR-8 and handle like a dream. They lack some of the FR-8's features (factory peep sights, stripper clip guide) and cost significantly more though.
I've given some thought to a Remington 600 as a Scout type project too. They start out over a full lb. lighter than the FR-8 and handle like a dream. They lack some of the FR-8's features (factory peep sights, stripper clip guide) and cost significantly more though.
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rduchateau2954
Member
And a familiar face wanders by. I've been stalking your posts for days after getting it in my head that I wanted something different than anyone else.
Still haven't decided in either a scout or a .35 but you are a wealth of information.
Still haven't decided in either a scout or a .35 but you are a wealth of information.
35 Whelen
Member
Both the Scout rifles I pictured are in their original military stocks. It takes some attention to detail after the removal of all the hardware and then filling the holes and crevices with tinted Acraglas, then fitting a decent recoil pad. Hers is a Limbsaver, mine off a Ruger 77. My stock was finished with Tru-Oil, hers hand rubbed BLO.
When I "built" my wife's three or four years ago, I took the time to photo document the entire, well most of, the project. That's a sight off an M1 Carbine, interesting to fit to a Mauser barrel! I even set up a home-Parkerizing tank in my shop and did the entire rifle. LOTS of hours but oh so rewarding!
35W
When I "built" my wife's three or four years ago, I took the time to photo document the entire, well most of, the project. That's a sight off an M1 Carbine, interesting to fit to a Mauser barrel! I even set up a home-Parkerizing tank in my shop and did the entire rifle. LOTS of hours but oh so rewarding!
35W
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rduchateau2954
Member
You make me want to turn that scratch and dent M77 .35 I wandered across yesterday into a scout rifle.
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