Which SHTF Pistol: Glock or 1911?

[PaladinX13]

the original poster does not make any reference to multiple guns. he asks which gun we would pick up in a shtf scenario. so in the context of the original question, your logic is irrelevant. he is trying to see which one pistol we would pick and why. if we all had access to as many guns as we wanted in a shtf scenario, the original poster's question would not matter, as we would have all the firearms for every conceivable need that arised.

Think you better reconsider your argument. Yours ONLY works with multiple pistols OR a pistol that isn't with you, which is a useless SHTF pistol. The latter case speaks for itself, the former requires me explaining to you that you're making an unequal comparison- multiple 1911s to singular other guns.

did you read my post? my hd gun is loaded, my safe guns are not. and even if my safe guns were loaded, they would fare better than plastic ones in a fire.

See. Multiple pistols. You're confused yourself or otherwise committed to an unequal comparison (multiple steel guns to singular plastic ones). As to the latter assertion, it's "better" cosmetically at best... neither are safely usable in SHTF making the comparison meaningless.

"severely limited scope", you mean like thinking that a shtf scenario would never involve heat or fire???

Heat without the pistol on your hip. Fire with immediate need for your unloaded guns, ammo to be found... somewhere. Hell yeah, that's a severely limited scope. Meanwhile, taking realistic and reasonable precautions - duplicate guns, quality safes with smart placement, etc. matters far more than foolishly focusing on material durability.

It's like saying a suit of armor will protect your kid from falls better than pads and a helmet rather than teaching him to ride... maybe it's true, but not at all relevant.

 

[PaladinX13]

MY HD GUN IS KEPT LOADED, MY SAFE GUNS ARE NOT.

so you are saying i wouldn't call the fire dept, if my house was on fire, but what are the chances they would respond in a SHTF scenario!!!!!!

Be clear. You're saying not only that, but that your HD gun stays in the house while you're outside. Otherwise you're not talking about heat durability or SHTF at all, your talking about collection protection an entirely different subject.

You point out the OP only says one pistol. That means your house goes on fire, you leave the house, the pistol goes with you. NOT IN THE FIRE. Making heat resistance irrelevant (which, somehow, you don't get).

For your point to be relevant AT ALL the one gun has to stay in the fire. More simply put... completely irrelevant.

 

[boots]

plastic melts better than steel.

that is the point i want to get across. you claim that heat is not an issue for some people(you). i am not arguing against that. different people will face different situations in a shtf scenario. i am saying that in a situation where heat is involved, steel would be better than plastic. that is all.

different strokes for different folks.

btw, great thread. got me thinkin.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

You know, I was gonna ignore the remainder of this thread ... but then newcomers come along who apparently can't even be bothered to actually read through all the previous posts ...
rborensr notes:

Actually, I wrote that post. It was on my dad's computer when I went home for Thanksgiving break. I may not be a vet or founding member here, but I don't think I actually qualify as a newcomer. And I had read every post before that. The point still stands:
We are talking about a SHTF situation. To me this means a break down in local government, similar to what we saw in New Orleans. In such a situation, it doesn't matter so much if it is legal as whether or not it keeps you alive long enough to see a jury. A pistol not on your hip is worthless. So we can discuss locking them up in safes and glove boxes but it isn't really relevent to the conversation at hand. With special regard to hiding firearms in a stove due to, as has been suggested, mandatory confiscation--I say that in that particular case, it is time to use em, not hide em. Don't bury your guns, dig them up.

Barring the most outlandish situations people can think about, the Glock takes anything you can hand to it. In those rare situations, the user would be in deeper crap than just having his pistol melt so it is similarly irrelevent. Case and point, if the SHTF, are you going to leave your pistol in the glove box when it is hot out? Most would be wise to use the same handgun in a SHTF situation that they train with for personal defense. If the SHTF, say, your house has just been Movaltov cocktailed, are you really going to take your pistol from the bed stand and dump it off in the safe on your way out the door? Didn't think so. Meanwhile, the Glock is more corrosion resistant than most 1911s on the market, due in part to the polymer frame and Tennifer treatment. The polymer frame is also far more neutral so in more realistic temperatures--those actually experienced on a regular basis by users and their pistols--the Glock will be more comfortable to operate. It will not be as cold when the mercury drops nor as hot when pressed against your skin when it gets hot.

O yeah and I also don't buy those who argue trading capacity for weight is a far trade. With training people may be able to minimize the disadvantage of only have 7 or 8 rounds in a magazine, but it will never be as good as having 14 or 15 rounds in the magazine. Never. To say otherwise is only to deceive yourself. Lest we forget, you can also train with a higher capacity pistol and having twice as many rounds in the magazine is a very good thing.

 

[420Stainless]

A pistol not on your hip is worthless. So we can discuss locking them up in safes and glove boxes but it isn't really relevent to the conversation at hand.

It is very good that you are in a position in life that you may carry 24/7. As for me, I am not willing to give up my profession, which does not allow me to carry, just to be prepared for a potential disaster. I am not too keen on leaving a weapon in my truck that is parked in a very urban and crime prone area while at work either. Returning to a burned-out house to salvage what I can before (hopefully) removing my family from the destruction zone is a possible scenario. Blame me for choosing my lifestyle if you feel the need to lash out against someone for pointing out a potential weakness in choosing polymer, but don't blame the steel for surviving in this scenario while the plastic won't.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

I don't carry 24/7, but I would if it was a SHTF situation.

So what you're saying is what? That you have this pistol...I assume you keep it for self-defense as well...but it is kept in...what...a fireproof safe, unloaded so in the remote possibility everything goes to hell when you're at work and you return to find your house burnt down, you might still have a pistol? That is, of course, assuming frame material still crosses your mind when you return home to unlock and load your pistol only to find a couple dozen looters sifting through the rubble. So what happens if you return to find a group effort to pull your gun safe into the back of a truck? Or to force it open? The people are armed but you are not. Do you politely ask for your safe back? Does frame material still matter? So when exactly does that pistol do you any good at all?

 

[boots]

this is exactly my sentiments on the subject.

It is very good that you are in a position in life that you may carry 24/7. As for me, I am not willing to give up my profession, which does not allow me to carry, just to be prepared for a potential disaster. I am not too keen on leaving a weapon in my truck that is parked in a very urban and crime prone area while at work either. Returning to a burned-out house to salvage what I can before (hopefully) removing my family from the destruction zone is a possible scenario. Blame me for choosing my lifestyle if you feel the need to lash out against someone for pointing out a potential weakness in choosing polymer, but don't blame the steel for surviving in this scenario while the plastic won't.

some people claim heat is not an issue for them. i say good for them. i happen to agree with you 100%.

 

[will919]

SHTF?.....I would use the one I have on me at that time.

 

[Biker]

SHTF?.....I would use the one I have on me at that time.

That is indeed the best gun in the world: The gun you have with you when you need a gun.
Biker

 

[MTMilitiaman]

That is indeed the best gun in the world: The gun you have with you when you need a gun.
Biker

O! But what's this? Some people can't carry 24/7! So are people just going to ignore my points because it disagrees with theirs? Or have we finally reached pretty much the same conclussion I stated two pages ago?

The best pistol is the one on your hip when you need it and in such cases, all pistols will be pretty much equally useful assuming profeciency--frame material doesn't matter. Any other pistol is equally useless and frame material is again irrelevent. Thus, regardless of whether or not it is on your hip when you need it, a pistol's frame material, when discussing current polymers verses steel or alloy, is completely irrelevent.

 

[Biker]

O! But what's this? Some people can't carry 24/7! So are people just going to ignore my points because it disagrees with theirs? Or have we finally reached pretty much the same conclussion I stated two pages ago?

The best pistol is the one on your hip when you need it and in such cases, all pistols will be pretty much equally useful assuming profeciency--frame material doesn't matter. Any other pistol is equally useless and frame material is again irrelevent. Thus, regardless of whether or not it is on your hip when you need it, a pistol's frame material, when discussing current polymers verses steel or alloy, is completely irrelevent.

Yeah. Pretty much...

Biker

 

[boots]

your point?

O! But what's this? Some people can't carry 24/7! So are people just going to ignore my points because it disagrees with theirs? Or have we finally reached pretty much the same conclussion I stated two pages ago?

The best pistol is the one on your hip when you need it and in such cases, all pistols will be pretty much equally useful assuming profeciency--frame material doesn't matter. Any other pistol is equally useless and frame material is again irrelevent. Thus, regardless of whether or not it is on your hip when you need it, a pistol's frame material, when discussing current polymers verses steel or alloy, is completely irrelevent.

yes, i will ignore your points, because it does not apply to me and my situation. and you can ignore mine, because my points don't apply to you.

i guess we agree to disagree.

 

[Borachon]

I think that people have different ideas about what constitutes S hitting the F.

For many, SHTF means it can only be an ongoing and immediate threat. I don't picture it that way. I picture a SHTF situation as perhaps being fluid. At times, it would be advisable to have your pistol handy. At other times, it might be more advisable to have your weapon hidden...until you can use it later. To me, it seems simplistic to assume that carrying your weapon will always be the advisable thing to do. There might be times when I want to walk into the FEMA food distribution facility and get a bite to eat. If I'm tagged with a weapon, it's a jail sentence. (In more extreme times, it might mean death.) I'd feel better leaving my weapon in a spot that would be secure. A sewer, a pile of manure, in a chimney, or on top of a hot stove. You never know when you might have to ditch your weapon and retrieve it later.

But like I say, it's all in what you believe a SHTF situation will involve.
9 times out of 10, even if you prepare, you'll still get it wrong. That's why SHTF situations happen. No one saw them coming, or didn't believe they would occur.

 

[420Stainless]

I don't carry 24/7, but I would if it was a SHTF situation.

So what do you do, watch the cows to tell you about earthquakes or terrorist attacks in advance so you can go and fetch your weapon and be ready?

I carry when out and about after work and on weekends, and I'm always armed around the house. I do not, unless I choose another profession, have the option to carry at work. If I knew the S was going to hit the fan, I would not go to work that day and I not only would have my 1911, but I'd have another pistol strapped to my ankle, a shotgun in my hand, and very probably an ultra-light .308 slung over my shoulder. And if I had a Glock after the S hit the fan, I would be very happy to have it. I was never arguing against the Glock. I was simply trying to point out that someone posted a legitimate concern that a polymer frame might get seriously damaged by high heat and that he had first hand knowledge of a scenario where steel framed guns survived side by side where the polymers did not. Apparently you don't consider the possibility of an inconvenient fire to be part of your SHTF scenario. I do. It wouldn't stop me from owning a Glock, but it might make me think about having something else for backup just in case.

 

[nickE10mm]

The problem I have with this thread is, what exactly would constitute SHTF? A nuclear war? Breakdown of society? Simply being caught in the middle of a riot? All the above? I can think of many scenarios where a well-tuned 1911 would have the edge if I needed rifle-type accuracy and also needed a platform I could also use .22LR ammo for small game hunting (survivalist scenario). But if caught in the middle of total urban chaos I'd want as high a magazine capacity as I could get, so I'd want a Glock 19/17 with 33-round magazines! But as can be seen, neither a 1911 nor a Glock is really ideal, nor are any other handguns. If you're caught in the middle of a true SHTF scenario and all you have on you is a pistol, you're still in big trouble.

exactly. i love 1911's and Glocks both, but my answer to this thread would depend on the actual scenario.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

420, that is exactly my point. I did consider the possibility of a fire. But all things considered, if my pistol isn't on me and it is in a fire, I have real problems to worry about other than its frame material. Nobody wanted to address what they'd do if they returned to find looters rummaging through the remains of their burnt down house or dragging off their gun safe. If you consider the danger of high heat real then you must also consider situations such as this. The bottom line is that there are very few cases where frame melting temperature is a legitimate concern and these cases are unlikely enough that I feel the simplicity of the Glock combined with its advantages in weight and capacity as well as, in many cases, initial cost and cost of parts and accessories are all advantages that will be far more useful in far more situations. Add to this the corrosin resistance of the Glock, the temperature neutrality of its frame material, and any host of other advantages it has, even theoretically over other designs and I just think that the possibility of the frame melting is just too low to ignore the other very real advantages the Glock has over the 1911 and many other competing designs.

 

[Gimme.50]

The count

If anyone cares...the current count as of now is:

Glock - 28
1911 - 20

That should be pretty close, I tried not to count people twice and if I'd been partial one way, it would have been to the 1911, 'cause that's my vote!! Actually I might cancel myself out, because I might take one of each. Considering the number of people that have input their opinions on this, I'd say it's close to being a toss up...take what you want if the SHTF. If you see somebody in the woods after the SHTF and they're gun is broken, and your gun isn't, then you can say "See, I told you so!" . I'm off to other threads to talk about something else!!

 

[Borachon]

The bottom line is that there are very few cases where frame melting temperature is a legitimate concern

It doesn't necessarily have to be the melting point. The issue could be it's breaking point when the plastic becomes cold, or the breaking point when subject to the owner falling down a flight of stairs, or how soon the parts wear out from constant use.

Steel is a fairly well known substance, and has some reputation for durability. Plastic doesn't have as long a track record in comparison.

 

[Biker]

Seems to me that Glocks have been around long enough to pass the 'cold test', the 'falling down the stairs' test and the wear test.
Biker

 

[shooter05]

Glock 21 with 13 rnd mags
Go ahead punk make my day

 

[atblis]

I was thinking a Glock 17, 34, or 20

10mm would be nice, but if scrounging for ammo...
9mm or 40 would be easier to find ammo for.
lotsa 17rnd mags and a few 33 rounders in the back pack for special occasions.

 

[Cueball]

Now that there seems to be a break in the arguing, I'll make my reply to the original post.

I wouldn't choose either a glock or a 1911... I would go for my H&K USP 40

 

[brickboy240]

Neither:

Sig 220 45ACP. Reliability, accuracy and stopping power.

Thats my SHTF pistol...no doubt!

- Brickboy240

 

[Too Many Choices!?]

Glock 23 and 51 rounds...

2 X 10 round mags, 2 X 15 round mags, and one up the pipe...This is no contest! Double stack mags, lighter ammo, and the same manual of arms as a revolver,"point and click"! What is not to like?

Plus either the M4 and/or PDW AR-15 pistol would be close depending on where I am !

 

[dsk]

post #150

1911 rules!





so there