OP
OP
WVGunman
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You also have more muzzle blast, lots more more recoil, and less ammo capacity to deal with too.
Why aren't semi-auto pistol caliber carbines (PCC) the #1 choice/recommendation for home defence?
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Trey Veston
Member
Not a PCC because it is braced, so much shorter and handier. Single point sling means it allows both hands free if needed without setting it down, unlike a handgun, because I don't wear a holster to bed, and it is the same price as the S&W M&P. Plus, twice the ammo capacity.
Old Dog
Member
Cost less to feed? Only if you're using FMJ. Why wouldn't you use a premium factor JHP as you would in a handgun.
Was glad to see folks quickly stepping up to debunk the overpenetration comparison. Anyone who uses a 9mm pistol for home defense -- especially if you've got family members in other rooms -- absolutely needs to be aware of the penetration capabilities of this round. I'm familiar with cases of shootings in apartment complexes and from the street into homes; it's a wake-up call to see how many layers of wall or sheetrock a lot of factory bullets can go through. 55 grain .223, on the other hand, fragments much more quickly after initially contacting walls.
There's a reason that tactical teams have gotten away from sub-guns as entry weapons. I'm personally much happier with an M-4 or something like a Colt Commando or other SBR than I was with the MP5. Cleaning and maintaining sub-guns (not to mention having to use hot ammo such as expensive +P+ to keep them cycling) sucked.
I'd use my PC9 for home protection,,,,,,if it wasn't so much fun at the Range!
I'm well-beyond 'hundreds and hundreds' of rounds sent downrange. (Doubt I've passed 5K, but I'm probably a lot closer than I think.)
I know what it likes to eat without fail, and, in my hands, it can be very accurate @ 50 yds. I also have a Suppressor for it, but I don't use it much as doing so at a PUBLIC RANGE kind of defeats the purpose.
An SBR or an AR platform in general, for me, may not be as good a current fit as it's been years since I've shot any of my AR's. Perhaps a few weeks at the most for my PC9.
Does that mean I'm without Home Protection? No, not in the least, as I have multiple readily-available alternatives that I own/shoot on a regular basis.
Perhaps some day it will be regulated to Home D use, but that day doesn't appear to be coming anytime soon! =)
I'm well-beyond 'hundreds and hundreds' of rounds sent downrange. (Doubt I've passed 5K, but I'm probably a lot closer than I think.)
I know what it likes to eat without fail, and, in my hands, it can be very accurate @ 50 yds. I also have a Suppressor for it, but I don't use it much as doing so at a PUBLIC RANGE kind of defeats the purpose.
An SBR or an AR platform in general, for me, may not be as good a current fit as it's been years since I've shot any of my AR's. Perhaps a few weeks at the most for my PC9.
Does that mean I'm without Home Protection? No, not in the least, as I have multiple readily-available alternatives that I own/shoot on a regular basis.
Perhaps some day it will be regulated to Home D use, but that day doesn't appear to be coming anytime soon! =)
Good Ol' Boy
Member
I dont own a PCC but have been eyeing them for quite a while.
I think they can certainly serve a role in HD and they are certainly appealing for games but in a SHTF situation I would want a .223/5.56.
So, I think PCC's are definitely capable of HD duty.
I think they can certainly serve a role in HD and they are certainly appealing for games but in a SHTF situation I would want a .223/5.56.
So, I think PCC's are definitely capable of HD duty.
shootbrownelk
Member
I'm in the process of building an AR-9mm carbine right now. Researching different barrels and triggers and other parts that I'll need. I have the dedicated lower set up for Glock mags and a matching upper.
Elkins45
Member
I own several PCCs but the gun in my bedroom closet is a 12 gauge pump shotgun loaded with OO buck. There’s a Glock 19 with a G17 magazine on the nightstand.
Why? Well, because if I don’t wake up until the bad guy is in the room I want a pistol I can roll over and grab and put into action one-handed. If I have the luxury of enough time to grab a two-handed weapon I want it to be one that maximizes my chances of stopping someone with the first shot.
There simply is no world where a 9mm round can deliver the shock and trauma of a 12 gauge buckshot load.
Why? Well, because if I don’t wake up until the bad guy is in the room I want a pistol I can roll over and grab and put into action one-handed. If I have the luxury of enough time to grab a two-handed weapon I want it to be one that maximizes my chances of stopping someone with the first shot.
There simply is no world where a 9mm round can deliver the shock and trauma of a 12 gauge buckshot load.
DocRock
member
Great question OP. Not yet answered conclusively in my opinion.
Swampman
Old Fart
How 'bout planet Earth when the range opens up to 80 or a hundred yards?
For inside the home distances I absolutely agree with you.
Lennyjoe
Member
I’m seriously considering one for home defense. Can’t decide if I want to build one in .45 ACP or 10MM. Either would be suppressed so maybe the .45 would be better with the 230 gr load instead of a 10/40 with a 200 grain bullet. Not sure I can get the .45 ACP loads up to just below supersonic (~1100 fps) like I could with the 200 gr 10MM round.
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Elkins45
Member
Your home must be quite a bit larger than mine.How 'bout planet Earth when the range opens up to 80 or a hundred yards?
For inside the home distances I absolutely agree with you.
The topic of the thread was specifically home defense. Have fun convincing a prosecutor that shooting someone 100 yards away was a case of home defense. 100 yards is the far end of my driveway, but if for some apocalyptic reason I'm shooting people at that range I would prefer an actual rifle cartridge fired from an actual rifle.
helitack32f1
Member
"Why aren't semi-auto pistol caliber carbines (PCC) the #1 choice/recommendation for home defense?"
Because they are cumbersome when putting them on the night stand at night and don't fit in the nightstand drawer. They don't fit well in the sock drawer either. They do not fit in a convenient small safe next to the bed or on the nightstand. They are harder to maneuver through a house at night while groggy and startled. There really isn't any benefit over a handgun that makes them worth the effort. A PCC in my opinion is kinda in that useless middle ground where it doesn't offer much more over a pistol in a home defense situation than a good handgun and it doesn't offer the power and accuracy at distance that a real rifle offers if things get serious and move outside. Can you tell I am not one of those people eagerly awaiting a Glock PCC, or any other PCC for that matter? If I was to use a long gun for home defense, it would be a combat shotgun.
Because they are cumbersome when putting them on the night stand at night and don't fit in the nightstand drawer. They don't fit well in the sock drawer either. They do not fit in a convenient small safe next to the bed or on the nightstand. They are harder to maneuver through a house at night while groggy and startled. There really isn't any benefit over a handgun that makes them worth the effort. A PCC in my opinion is kinda in that useless middle ground where it doesn't offer much more over a pistol in a home defense situation than a good handgun and it doesn't offer the power and accuracy at distance that a real rifle offers if things get serious and move outside. Can you tell I am not one of those people eagerly awaiting a Glock PCC, or any other PCC for that matter? If I was to use a long gun for home defense, it would be a combat shotgun.
In a nutshell, an "RCC" (rifle caliber carbine) does everything better than a "PCC", except shoot the cheapest ammo. That's pretty conclusive.
jar
Contributing Member
Is there any reason they should be?
mrmike7189
Member
Many good points . I feel that a PCC will do the job and save my hearing indoors, a short 16" barrell for tight spaces, and can share mags w/my pistol. I prefer to carry a pistol, but I am much more accurate with the PCC, The PCC being more powerful than a pistol will save my bacon. As for my 5.56 rifle, it's longer barrell makes it trickier to carry around, plus I wont need to make 100 yard shots on an attacker inside my little house.
FL-NC
Member
I agree with the OP. IMO, quality PCC type guns like the various AR's, the Ruger carbines, and the like are a superior choice for HD type applications to the shotgun or more powerful rifles.
mrmike7189
Member
Oh boy, this thread going to go on for another 2 pages now! LOL
I would make the exception if you do not know that your shotgun is drop safe.
Seems like the best solution to that is to get a different gun.
Why? Given your background, your opinion matters to me.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
For whatever reason, I was remembering when .410 shotguns were being promoted as a useful home defense tool for people of any stature.
Such as this Mossy . . .
I'd rather my wife and kids use a semi-auto PCC than something like that Mossy. But that's just me.
Such as this Mossy . . .
I'd rather my wife and kids use a semi-auto PCC than something like that Mossy. But that's just me.
Yes, but that information is not always easy to find and a lot of people have old shotguns out there and know how to use them.
For example, I learned on a Mossberg and find operating a Remington pump annoying. Not worth the time to me to make a switch. Fortunately, my Mossberg is drop safe with the tang safety. But, old Ithacas, Winchesters, etc., not so safe. Old cops before the switch to AR's probably know the most about which ones are safe and which ones aren't.
There's no 230 gr load I'd want to shoot that would be running 1070 fps. That's a EXTREMELY hot load.
DocRock
member
Only if one agrees. Which one does not.
illinoisburt
Member
Personally I agree completely with the idea of recommending a PCC for home protection over a shotgun (recoil, noise, limited capacity) or a handgun (inaccuracy for novice users). At least per what I've been told by my son and other dealers around here, first time buyers gravitate to handguns specifically because they are small and customers feel they are less dangerous to use. Many act afraid of long guns and do not want to handle them when offered as an alternative. Regardless of price, small pocket pistols outsell full size by a wide margin. They sell probably 20 pistols to each shotgun and even fewer rifles.
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