Craig: Unlike most nations, we don't have gov't mfg of firearms. It's always been private sector, and they've done well. Some years ago we saw frustration in anti-gun community that public and congress wouldn't bend to their will. Because guns were not the issue, the criminals were. Criminal activity with guns has rapidly dropped because DoJ has said if you do the crime, you will do the time. But because the anti-gun community didn't get it there way, they have determined they can use the court system. They said somehow these responsible citizens building a product would be responsible for these criminal actions, and have had increasingly higher costs from lawsuit after lawsuit. Instead of insisting that their communities and LE go after the criminal element, these municipalities have taken the easy route out of frustration. Reiterates that negligent dealer, mfg, etc. would not be immune from appropriate legal action. Submits letter from DoD speaking to importance on S.397. Also submits statement from Senator. Points out editorials from Wall Street Journal on the importance of the necessity of tort reform, even if not in a broad manner at once.
7/28/05 Senate S.397 Discussion
- Thread starter Bartholomew Roberts
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armoredman
Member
Kohl just blathered that once every six hours a yougster between 8 and 19 commits suicide with a "gun". Where does he get this garbage? When is an 18 or 19 year old a youngster? What a crock.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
The cloture vote for S.397 is on Friday. They should have a vote on the Kohl gunlock amendment sometime this morning.
Kohl: My amendment requires a safety device be sold with all handguns. This will go a long way to reducing the deaths among our young people. Every 6 hours a person between 10 and 18 commits suicide. A child safety lock could have prevented these tragedies. 11 million kids in houses with guns, in 65% of homes, the gun is accessible to the children. Trigger locks are already used by thousands of responsible gun owners. 75% of American public favors mandatory sale of locks with guns. Current administration supports this, Bush indicated he would support this during his previous campaign. This will not prevent every firearm accident. Stats show that those who buy locks are more likely to use them (DUH).
Dan from MI
Member
My impression from reading Thomas is that this amendment and the Frist two are the only ones being taken up. Is that correct, or are we going to take up all of the Kennedy, Schumer, Hillary, and Feinswine trash as well?
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Yeah, the meth dealer whose kid shoots himself with the loaded pistol he left on the coffee table is real likely to use the enclosed triggerlock. More feel-good legislation that doesn 't help anything; but at least it doesn't hurt it.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
That is correct so far. None of the other amendments will get a vote unless the Senate Leader (Frist) approves of it. So Frist has to allow enough amendments to get the 60 votes for cloture; but once he has that many Senators he can pretty much shut down any more amendments being offered.
The cloture vote is scheduled for tomorrow and there is no vote for any of the amendments but the three you mentioned scheduled so far. That could change; but since we still have 62 co-sponsors after yesterday's announcement that there would be limited opportunities to amend this bill, we hopefully will be able to limit it to just these amendments.
Reed: There are too many childhood suicides due to access to weapons. There is huge public support for this, over 70% of Americans. 6 out of 10 gun owners agree. Blah blah. Yields floor.
Craig: A trigger lock does not a safe weapon make. It can lay right beside a firearm unless it is inserted and locked. You can demand there be a trigger lock, but an irresponsible person can still cause harm to a child from their negligence. Senate thinks we can fix the world with a law. I'm not questioning sincerity of Kohl. Awareness creates a safer world, an educational process. Mfg, dealers know that. 90% of new handguns in US already have safety device with them. There are several nation orgs that constantly teach young people about firearms. NRA Eddie Eagle program for example. Still, child curiosity can cause accidents. Even with Kohl bill, it will happen. You cannot create a perfect world. The statistics are dramatically improving. Unintentional gun deaths in ‘01, 802 total. 15 were under the age of 5. 57 from 5-14. Trigger lock might have saved. But you have to get the responsible adult to put trigger lock in place. There were 110 from 15-19. This is an age when young people ought to know about firearms and their safe use. 20-24, 96. 25-45, 268 accidental deaths. 45-64, 177. From ‘92, there has been 54%(?) decline in these deaths. Yet gun ownership has risen. This is due to education.
Craig: A trigger lock does not a safe weapon make. It can lay right beside a firearm unless it is inserted and locked. You can demand there be a trigger lock, but an irresponsible person can still cause harm to a child from their negligence. Senate thinks we can fix the world with a law. I'm not questioning sincerity of Kohl. Awareness creates a safer world, an educational process. Mfg, dealers know that. 90% of new handguns in US already have safety device with them. There are several nation orgs that constantly teach young people about firearms. NRA Eddie Eagle program for example. Still, child curiosity can cause accidents. Even with Kohl bill, it will happen. You cannot create a perfect world. The statistics are dramatically improving. Unintentional gun deaths in ‘01, 802 total. 15 were under the age of 5. 57 from 5-14. Trigger lock might have saved. But you have to get the responsible adult to put trigger lock in place. There were 110 from 15-19. This is an age when young people ought to know about firearms and their safe use. 20-24, 96. 25-45, 268 accidental deaths. 45-64, 177. From ‘92, there has been 54%(?) decline in these deaths. Yet gun ownership has risen. This is due to education.
Craig, continued: In no way should my statement be taken as not caring about one child's death. We won't talk about safety seats, etc. even though those are so dramatically higher. My point in arguing this issue is not to suggest that we shouldn't be concerned, but to recognize that safe storage devices or no substitute for common sense and understanding. While I know this is popular, the point is that the world understands better today, and accidental deaths have dropped and continue to drop. Nothing replaces the responsible actions of an adult in the exercising of his constitutional rights.
armoredman
Member
"Clerk will call the roll." Whoops, thought that was it, my bad.
SmershAgent
Member
haha, touche`, Senator.
Craig really seems to be on the ball. I'm impressed.
Henry Bowman
Senior Member
Does the trigger lock amendment say it has to be sold with the handgun, or delivered. In other words, can I take a lock in to the dealer and "give" it to him before I buy, and then he "deliver" it to me?
What does a safe owner need with a pile of crappy locks?
What does a safe owner need with a pile of crappy locks?
Hutchison: I'm here to say that it is very important that Senate do everything we can to stop these frivolous lawsuits against gun mfgs. It is our litigious nature that drives jobs out of the country. One of the areas with this abuse is suing gun mfg for misuse of gun. That's like suing a plate maker when their dish is thrown at somebody else. There are many areas you can sue a gun mfg if the gun malfunctions. They would also be allowed for known violation of firearms law. Breach of contract, warranty, defective, etc. But when you have lawsuits filed by cities against Sig or Colt, etc. and the cities are just filing these suits to stop the mfg of guns, that's wrong. The RKBA is one of the most treasured of our rights. I have a bill right here in DC to end the deprivations of RKBA. America is one of the few countries without gov't mfg of guns. It is not the fault of the gun mfg if a crime is committed, we should put the fault on the person committing the crime. Craig has laid out very well the issue of the gun locks. I want every gun to be sold with a lock, I want everyone to have these safety protections in their home. Most gun owners are responsible and will have these. I applaud the efforts of Craig, and hope we can take one more step to curb the lawsuit abuse in this nation that happens in many areas.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Senator Hutchinson (TX) comes up to speak in support of S.397 and the gunlock amendment.
RealGun
Member
I too heard the number 67 but then heard is again stated as 61. Today it was announced that another sponsor was added bringing it to 62.
It hurts a lot if the only thing that makes sense of the requirement is to later make their use mandatory to avoid liability and gun confiscation.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
There is no text for the amendment yet; but the one offered last year was this one:
scout26
Member
I'm sure Hillary loved hearing that !!!!
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
CSPAN commentator announced he expected a vote on the Kohl amendment soon.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Vote going down now...
SmershAgent
Member
The Brady Center is mad about this bill, so they just filed some new lawsuits to make a point. How this helps their position is beyond me, but if they want to draw attention to their cause by acting childish and irrational, I shan't complain.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/viewstory.asp?Page=\Culture\archive\200507\CUL20050728a.html
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/viewstory.asp?Page=\Culture\archive\200507\CUL20050728a.html
scout26
Member
So that sounds like if you bring in your own, you don't have to buy one of theirs.
`
Okay, I can see why the military doesn't need a stupid trigger lock to be provided for every pistol, but why not Police Officers (whether on or off duty) ??? Don't they have kids ??? Isn't this for the children ???
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