Help! Anti-gun Girlfriend.

[ArthurDent]

All,

I have recently met a wonderful woman and things are going amazingly well. There is one issue between us about which I would appreciate some helpful advice and opinions.

She is VERY anti-gun.

She also claims to be quite liberal. I do not know quite how deep her feelings on these issues go. I have asked but she is somewhat reticent to explain in detail. The other day I half-jokingly suggested that I thought she would be in favor of making all guns illegal and she did not correct me. However, she has said that she won't ask me to give up my firearms.

She is fairly ignorant about guns, but cringes in fear every time I offer to help educate her about them. I am very gentle with her, and she realizes that I am not at all a violent person. The few times I've been able to get her to read a pro-gun article she has been astonished that the author (Ayoob!) seems well educated and doesn't want to go around shooting everybody at random.

If she is going to be around me on a long term basis, I consider it vital that she should at least know how to handle firearms safely, even if she doesn't like them.

I need advice on how to proceed. This is a very intelligent woman (a Ph.D.!), but she has drunk the media kool-aid, and thinks all firearms are evil. Is there any hope in getting her to accepting that people have the right to own firearms, and how do I help bring her around to this view?

ArthurDent

 

[Joe Demko]

If you want to proceed with the relationship, you should aspire to her being neutral on your enthusiasm for guns. No more. Anything else stands a real risk of turning into a power struggle in your relationship with each of you trying to make the other person into something s/he is not.

 

[EddieNFL]

You may be able to convert her over time, but it appears her beliefs are pretty deeply entrenched. Good luck.

P.S. The "won't ask you to give up your guns" promise may or may not hold...especially if you should ever have children.

 

[Fremmer]

Very liberal with a PhD, huh?

Run. Away. Fast.

 

[ArmedBear]

This is a very intelligent woman (a Ph.D.!), but she has drunk the media kool-aid

That does not follow. Either someone is intelligent, or not. Someone who doesn't think for herself isn't very intelligent, at least in any way that matters to me.

Note that most journalists aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. If a PhD believes what they say, then what does that tell me about her?

 

[Joe Demko]

You aren't the one who's considering a relationship with her, though, Armed Bear. His opinion of her, not yours, is germane. He asked for advice on building the relationship, not a critique of her thought processes.

 

[wishin]

I've said it before and will say it again, you can not properly raise your kids with an anti-gun person. Get her turned around. If you fail to, either give her up, or give up the idea of having children.

 

[hnk45acp]

Introduce her to your friends that shoot, particularly female shooters, but not in a shooting environment. Ask them over for coffee or dinner, show her these aren't rabid demons. In fact don't even mention that they shoot until they leave. It worked for a friend of mine. His galpal met his shooting friends at a BBQ and loved them, even invited them out to dinner and it wasn't until they left that he told her they met at the range and were shooting buddies. It changed her perception of gun owners right then and there

 

[mikana]

Ask her, as an intelligent, learned person, is she willing to change her beliefs based on new data.

If so, you will need to present good, factual data that will provide your reasoning for believing firearms are a positive and not a negative. I am sure people here can cite reputable studies and statistics for you.

If not, you are going to have to decide if you are going to be able to be assertive enough to not allow her to control in this area. I would make it clear to her up front that this is part of the equation that she will have to live with.

Her saying she won't ask you to get rid of your guns doesn't equate not her not allowing you to get new guns. It also does not deal with issues of carry/storage for self defense, etc. She will have to choose, ahead of time, if you are worth that compromise. Or you will have to choose to let her control you on this issue and likely many others.

Just my opinion.

 

[Joe Demko]

ArthurDent,
Be aware that in a thread like this, most of the replies will be insulting critiques of your girlfriend, rather than an attempt to answer your question.
Gun enthusiasts I know who have anti spouses manage to co-exist quite nicely by simply not being in each other's faces about it. The anti doesn't bitch or nag when the gun owner wants to go shooting. The shooter doesn't belittle (e.g. weak, stupid, irrational, etc.) the anti or insist on her involvement with guns. The guns, themselves, are kept safely stored; as they should be anyway.
Having a relationship doesn't mean you have to do everything together.

 

[2ndAmFan]

I think Joe Demko nailed it with his first response. If she goes neutral she may eventually decide to find out about firearms for herself instead of just buying the anti-2nd Amendment garbage so many people are spoon-fed in our schools, but trying to push her will wreck the relationship.

 

[ArthurDent]

Yes, I realize that a true conversion would lead to a counter-productive power struggle. I'm mainly hoping for: 1) acceptance of a human-being's right to own firearms, 2) acknowledging that firearms are not in-themselves evil, and 3) knowing how to be safe with them. I really don't expect her to share my enthusiasm.

I've mentioned to her that I think ALL children, both boys and girls, should be taught to shoot. Just as I think that ALL children should be taught to not play in the street and should be taught to swim and cook and manage money, as these are all vital life skills. Again, she cringes when I say that kids should be taught to be safe around guns.

Yes, it's quite serious. Yes, we've talked about the possibility of children. Both of us are older, so we should know what we're doing...

Yes, she's a Ph.D. I'm quite close to getting one myself. Education is a good thing so long as it doesn't make you lose touch with reality.

I'm working on the approach suggested by hnk45acp, above. I've introduced her to several of my female shooter friends, but not informed her yet about their hobby. Last night she met one of my female friends who is an IPSC champ, but again, I didn't tell her that. She does know that my 83 year old Mom has a concealed carry permit and knows how to shoot. This fries my GF's mind.

Yes, I think she can re-think her positions based on new information. She just FEELS that guns are bad. She has never been around a responsible gun owner before. Her out-of-state sister is married to a policeman, and she has told me that he thinks it's perfectly normal and cool that I like guns.

I've invited her to go shooting many times... She's still not ready for that. I plan on taking nothing but .22's, and "safe," traditional looking models at that.

A little progress at a time....

 

[ny32182]

If it were me, assuming I decided it was worth pursuing, I would just not hide anything to do with shooting, etc, and let her come to me when she is ready, rather than push it on her.

If she is aware of your guns and shooting and doesn't complain, that may be as good as it gets with many women, and is not a bad place to be I don't think. If she decides she wants to learn something about it, it is just a bonus.

If she is aware and frequently complains or tries to change you, well... then you have a choice to make.

A Ph.D. might be impressive, but is it worth giving up the things you enjoy; only you can answer that question.

 

[NMGonzo]

As long as she does not nag you about your "arsenal" (just like my girlfriend) you are golden.

She does not care about carrying, enjoys shooting once in a while, and she knows that guns and motorcycles are "my thing".

But ... she finds solace that I am armed while we hike (her thing) and all that.

She never noticed cougar tracks before on her hikes!

 

[Patriotme]

A few other guys have posted similiar threads on this site and other forums and I usually offer them the same suggestions. Forgive me if you've heard it all before.
First of all I believe that reason almost never works with Liberals. They know what they know in spite of what is true. You have to appeal to their self interest. Libs are a very "Me" oriented group. What will the government do for me? What has America done for me? Soak the other guy, let him pay for all of the programs? Etc.
Go online and pull up the list of sex offenders in your area. It's sad but we all have them around us if we live in an urban area. Show her how many sex offenders live nearby and how many there are. Now pull up the average police response time for your city/county.
Have her sit quietly (female and Liberal? good luck. Hee hee). If the time is ____ minutes then have her sit quietly (talking makes the time go by faster) and show her how long it would take a criminal to walk from the front door to the bedroom. Show her how long it would take a criminal to swing by the kitchen and pick up a knife on the way to the bedroom. Demonstrate by slapping the table how many times a criminal could hit her before the police arrive.
Put your own spin on the suggestion I posted above. You know your girl and what might work.
I wish you luck. Let us know how this works out.
By the way, some community papers also list break ins and vandalism in the area. This could also show how vulnerable an unarmed person and pump up the numbers of examples to show her.

 

[ArmedBear]

Joe, someone tells me that he really wants a sports car, and he's found a really nice one. It's such a great sports car that it weighs 4500 lbs. and the rear half is an open bed for hauling stuff.

An F250 isn't a Porsche. And the assumption that this woman is intelligent will not lead to any useful gameplan. A strategy built on a falsehood will fail.

This PhD is showing signs of being a "true believer", not someone who operates from a rational foundation. Many PhD programs these days are little more than indoctrination camps for true believers. If you want to understand such a person, then you have to start with that.

 

[jfh]

I'd like to believe you two can learn to co-exist. But, if children may be in the picture, all bets are off. FWIW, my marriage of 33-years eventually went out the door (it was dead and gone at 25 years, but we were child-rearing) and at least part of it was my wife's passive-aggressive intolerance to my ideas of self-defense. BtW--she was a Doctor, too--as in Ed.D.

Jim H.

 

[hso]

There have been a ton of threads on this and we've even thought about making a sticky on the topic. Providing "Why Liberals Should Love The Second Amendment" is a good starter.

The only good advice is not to push the issue. As said, ask if she'd be willing to entertain the idea that she's acting on incomplete or incorrect information. Make sure she sees that her ideas about guns and gun owners comes from sources that might not always be reliable, her first hand experience, you, isn't as those sources have lead her to believe and that she's probably been around many gun owners/shooters that she thought were just as reasonable as you and just didn't know it. Point out that if all these things are true, perhaps the information that she's based her fears upon are actually the equivalent to Jim Crow propaganda that demonized blacks and that gun owners have been demonized in much the same way. Let her think about it, demonstrate that you're not the redneck, rightwingnut that gun owners have been caricatured as.

 

[Mike J]

It truly is your call but as Eddie NFL posted earlier if you ever have kids her being ok with your guns may change. I saw this happen to a friend of mine. He was no longer allowed to have his deer rifle in the house.
Edited to add: A lot of folks posted while I was typing the first time. I actually agree with ArmedBears post. My Father told me that if I couldn't see myself married to a woman just like she was I shouldn't go on a date with her. If I had listened to his advice it would have saved me a lot of trouble over the years.

 

[LeontheProfessional]

I hope you are also highly educated or at least highly intelligent other wise she will run logical circles around you every time you get into a debate over guns. It is my experience that those with Ph.Ds are the hardest to change. Due to their self achievements they tend to believe that there level of reasoning is far above and beyond every one else, who has not had equal or greater achievement. If things do wind up working out between the two of you don't count on her being ok with your guns forever. She may very well eventually say no more guns or no more ammo or whatever. Also, as previously stated kids could and probably will change her perspective of guns quite a bit(not for the better).

I would recommend sticking with it and trying to work on her. Make sure to always approach it as a subject of safety. Try to find a place to take her shooting where the others at the range will also be responsible with guns and where the staff is super friendly. If all of this does not work after say 6 months to a year and she is still turned off by guns you may want to either let it go and live with her hating guns or start looking else where.

 

[hexidismal]

My advice, from experience... just stop worrying about it. I've dated a few such types. One woman in particular though in relatively recent years was more liberal perhaps then all the others combined. We spent a few years together, and guns had absolutely nothing to do with it. My guns, my thing. Every so often I would say "want to try shooting this .22 ?", or something along those lines just to let her know I hadn't closed her off from being included in my hobby. We both knew what it was, and what the answer would be. She thought guns were evil sure, but she knew I carried every day and trusted me.

Finding someone who you really want to be around in this world is hard enough, why muck it up with something that doesn't need to matter ? I certainly mean no insult to you, but it seems like from what you said she isn't trying to change you, but you're the one making an issue of it. Instead, just be open to answer any questions she has, and otherwise just leave it alone. Enjoy what time you have. Stop debating, and start simply caring.

 

[BigO01]

ArthurDent at least she isn't a rabid gun control nut and seems reasonable and perhaps open minded to a degree on the issue .

Not knowing how feelings may develope I can only suggest that if you become deeply in love with this lady and wish to marry her at some point my approach would be to tell her just how deeply you care for her , and explain to her that if something happened to her from the criminal element when she is indeed an intellegent and capable women it would devestate you .

Explain to her that despite all the worlds hopes and dreams there always has been and always will be sick sadistic people who take a great deal of pleasure from causeing the pain and death of others including complete strangers for no logical reason at all , and that your feelings and wanting her to be able to protect herself if need be are simply extensions of your love and hopes that the two of you can have a long and happy life together .

Best of luck this is a tough situation .

 

[Fremmer]

She also claims to be quite liberal. I do not know quite how deep her feelings on these issues go. I have asked but she is somewhat reticent to explain in detail.

Somewhat reticent to explain in detail? Why? And if she won't willingly explain her beliefs to you, then how are we to tell you how to proceed?

It sounds like you are thinking way too far ahead. You don't even know her well enough to know what she believes, and for some reason she refuses to tell you. So chill out, have some fun with her, and don't worry about the gun issue right now. I would speculate that when she actually tells you her beliefs, you'll have enough information to make a decision about her without our help (not that anyone here can help you, anyway).

 

[ishi]

There's no reason your gf's political views have to be exactly the same as yours.

When I met my wife I was astounded that she believes that earth was created in 6 days. I'm an atheist and science is such an integral part of my upbringing that it was a real shocker - and I had to decide whether I would get in a big argument about it, or let it go.

Since we love each other, enjoy each other's company, and are happy together, what do I care how she thinks the world was created? Should I let the best woman I've ever known get away because I feel the need to control her beliefs?

I let it go and never brought it up again. We're happily married for 5 years now.

My advice - enjoy your relationship and don't poison it by trying to "convert" her. She isn't trying to take away your firearms, so let it go.

 

[jaysouth]

Too many other pools with lots of nice fish. Just throw this one back.