Living with an anti-gun spouse, how do you do it?

[DavidMS]

Couple of thoughts

Keep in mind this is coming from a 31 year old single (never married guy). I like target shooting and have always said that in relationships quite early. Usually I describe target shooting as a form of meditation. Or as a hobby and sport.

I recently went on a date with a woman who was into yoga and she didn't like guns but understood where I was coming from when I said that the goal was a Zen like state. Things did not work for other reasons but explaining my enjoyment of shooting sports in that way worked.

 

[Vector]

Hello, my name is JAD, and my wife hates guns.

Over 10 years ago, before and after we got married, we could both best be described as “bliss ninnies”. We were young, never thought anything bad could ever happen to us, you know how most dumb kids are. However, over time I began to open my eyes to the reality. “It” can happen to me, and I am responsible for my safety, not the cop 15 minutes away. And here I am today, always aware of my surroundings, responsible gun owner, carry permit holder, gun collector, etc.

During this time, my wife went down a different path. At first, she accepted my desire to own a gun (with not insignificant resistance) in order to protect her and our future son, though she did not really like it. She has never liked guns, BTW. Crucially, instead of the more constructive path I took, she went down the road to fear. She went from wandering the streets of NYC, Chicago and Oakland alone after midnight (completely unaware) to the opposite end of the spectrum: practically paralyzed with fear.

And she blames me for this, because I awoke her from her dream world slumber. As she put it, she just wants to go back to not caring, not worrying any more. Basically, she is like a child that thinks the boogey man won’t get her if she hides under the covers. Not only that, she wants me to go back to how I was. Nothing irritates her more than when I am not directing 100% attention to her and my son (I always try to maintain a reasonable degree of situational awareness and I admit I'm not the best multitasker). Also, her hatred of guns seems to grow more vitriolic with the passage of time, as I think they are a reminder that there is in fact evil out there.

When she demanded last week that I go back to how I was and get rid of all my guns, I flatly stated it was not going to happen. I would be derelict in my duties as a father if I did not do my best to protect her and our child from danger. When I refusted to back down, she wondered what we were going to do, and the dreaded “D” word came into the “conversation”. She backed down at this point. It wasn’t the first time this has happened, and each time this issue comes up it seems to get nastier and nastier.

I am beginning to see that divorce is inevitable unless something changes. I told her that other couples have found ways to accept each other’s differences and live in peace and harmony. I certainly try to accept her position, I’m not trying to force her into liking guns, and I try to keep the guns and related stuff out of site. I’d just like to be accepted, that’s all. Let it be. She wants to learn to accept it, but she is very stubborn.

Note that we did go to counseling for a short while, but she soon stopped going because she decided she needs no help, as “I am the one who is screwed up.” Sigh.

So I ask for you wisdom and experience. Who out there has found a way to happily coexist with a gun hating, fearful spouse who would rather just pretend bad things can’t happen. How do you do it? How do you learn to respect one another,s differences?
I know this is a difficult question to answer, but I appreciate any thoughts that can be offered.

For background, you may wish to read an earlier thread that dovetails into this one:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=637572

I have not read the other thread nor the rest of this one because I don't have the time, but am still willing to try to help. However based on this post alone, it sounds like your problems run deeper than just the gun/safety issue.
For me to render some advice, answer a couple of quick questions.

Why did she walk the streets of those cities(especially Oakland) in ignorant bliss, alone after midnight. Was it an occupational thing or did she just party until all hours of the night?

How old is your son, and have you gotten him into guns?

What are her political views, and have they morphed or gotten stronger over the years? Are they the same or different than yours?

Besides the guns and safety issue/s, what is the biggest conflict the two of you seem to have. Are you at odds with each other over many things, or just a couple?

In the mean time while I am waiting for your answers, I suggest you not make her aware of your "degree of situational awareness" (regardless of your inability to multitask), because as you said, "nothing irritates her more". You can still maintain a level of awareness without making her or your son aware of it.

 

[Bubbles]

IANA counselor, doctor, psychiatrist, shrink, etc. I have been a happily married woman for just over 10 years and while my husband and I do have our differences, we do not issue ultimatums to each other.

I agree with the folks who said the real issue isn't the guns, and that's just a symptom of the problem. IMO the problem is that your worldview has changed from "sheep" to "sheepdog" while your wife's has not, and she's not comfortable with that change. You're not the same blissninny guy she married. She can't articulate it - heck, she may not even realize it - so she fusses about you having the guns.

Now that you have a child she may also be waking up more to the dangers of the world, her role as a protector, and she may be feeling a big overwhelmed or scared there.

You didn't say how "in your face" you are regarding the guns. I'll guess that you're not the type who has several full safes (and who really needs another 1-2 to hold the complete collection), a reloading bench w/ progressive press set up in the garage, gun catalogs arriving in the mail on a daily basis, cases of ammo arriving once every week or so, etc.

OTOH you shouldn't be forced to sell all your guns or hide your hobby either.

So no advise, just trying to give you an idea of what she may be thinking.

Good luck.

ETA: just read your taser thread. You can't put the genie back in the bottle on this one. If you two were both single today you probably wouldn't go out on more than 1-2 dates, never mind get married. Since you have a kid you're going to have to suck it up for the next 13 years, or deal with alimony and CS. Sorry.

 

[berettaprofessor]

(she complained of fear-induced muscle tension a few hours after the range trip).

That, right there, is a clear sign we're beyond "rational" and into "crazy".

 

[Rail Driver]

That, right there, is a clear sign we're beyond "rational" and into "crazy".

This. Personally I'd divorce her. I can't be happy if I'm not allowed to enjoy myself. I'm not going to give up my ability to defend my family OR myself to appease a crazy woman that chooses (yes, it's her CHOICE) to live in fear of an inanimate object that can't do anything to her without a PERSON making the CHOICE to pick it up and use it. I'd probably file for custody of my child as well, considering she's so paralyzed by fear that she'd be unable to protect herself in a defense situation, much less her child.

 

[vito]

The possible variations within a marriage are almost infinite, but when one partner is totally inflexible it does not make for harmony. I have been married to the same woman for 45 years, and during all of those years she has disliked guns, and barely tolerated motorcycles, both things of great importance to me (although they were not so important when we first met and married). Re the guns, we have certain understandings: I do not talk about my guns, or any guns with her; when I go to the range I do not return with stories of what happened, similar to when she goes to her favorite quilting shop; while she knows that I always take a handgun with us on roadtrips, she prefers to act like it isn't there, which is OK with me; I don't leave gun magazines around the house, I don't put an NRA sticker on my car and I don't unduly alarm her about the slight but real risk of becoming a crime victim. In effect we have agreed to disagree on guns. I've had a bit more luck with motorcycles, where now, in our 60's, she actually will go with me for short rides and she has no problem when I go off for long rides or motorcycle road trips. I will add something about your situation: it seems more than strange that she knowingly wants to return to a state of ignorance about the dangers of the real world, which seems very different from someone who has never really been faced with reality in the first place. I suspect that there are deeper and more troubling issues that she needs to resolve. She would not, however, be the first person to want to return to a form of infancy when the reality of aging and mortality intrude into one's consciousness. Good luck. Regardless of what happens, never give up keeping your relationship with your children. Someday you might not be her husband, but you will always be your children's father.

 

[Onward Allusion]

jad0110
Living with an anti-gun spouse, how do you do it?

It ain't just about the guns. Trust me. I went through the same thing a number of years ago. You two have a whole lot more issues than a bunch of inanimate objects. Try to get some couple's counseling. If it doesn't work, get a divorce.

 

[Loosedhorse]

That, right there, is a clear sign we're beyond "rational" and into "crazy".

I disagree. It is a sign that (as we should have already known) we are not dealing with a rational objection to guns; we are dealing with an emotional one.

Some of you are perhaps advising the use of "rational arguments" to deal with an emotional stance. Well, isn't THAT just like a man!

Rational argument has no force against strong, emotional conviction.

(she complained of fear-induced muscle tension a few hours after the range trip).

If someone almost got into a car accident or an attack situation where they thought they would have to use their gun, and told you that they had the shakes after that, and it took them hours to recover...

Would that be a sign that they were crazy?

 

[SharkHat]

Marital advice from the internet is worth exactly what you pay for it.

None of us are privy to all of the information or even both sides of your situation. And yes, there are definitely two sides that have to be considered.

The only reasonable advice that's been given in this thread is to involve an objective third party who will be able to evaluate both of those sides. That might mean couples counseling, with the possibility of seeing the same counselor at separate times so that you can each tell your side without encroachment. For counseling to be at all effective, you both have to go in with at least the ability to admit responsibility for contributing to the problem. Neither of you get to claim 100% of the blame.

 

[danez71]

She may be fearful of guns but thats not the whole issue.

Trust, honesty, communication, and respect. (not in order)

Does she trust you not to endanger the family with guns or anything else? Do you trust that, despite what it appears, she too wants the best for the family?

Are you both being honest about your feelings about guns, fears in life, and love for each other?

Dont argue to win..... communicate to find the compromise. Try not using "but" in your arguements. Always acknowledge her statments and then say something like " I understand and agree to a point and I also see the other side of the coin of xyz..." and ask her "wheres the middle ground?"

Tell her that both of you are setting the example for your son.... learning t compromise is a life skill your son will need in life.

That will tell you a lot. If her middle ground is only her way and doesnt see that compromise is a part of life.

You both need to respect each other and each others irrational fears. Yes, I said that right.


Tell her you love her and your son.
Tell her you cant stand the thought of not protecting your son and her...and that its probably the same type of feeling she has in terms of the undeniably strong feeling of having children and a family.

Ask her those things justify a divorce. Ask her if a divorce is going to help.

Ask her, as your partner, wife, and the mother of the two of your two son, how do WE compromise and achieve the goals that you both share.... and happy and safe family.


Good luck.

 

[ChrisHarris]

I already had guns when I met my wife. The subject of hunting and fishing came up eventually. She likes to fish, but had never owned a gun and had never been around them. She was apprehensive about them. We lived in Colorado and when she and I decided to take our first hiking/fishing trip into the mountains, I warned her ahead of time that I'd be carrying a sidearm for protection. She was a little nervous and asked if it was really necessary that I carry a gun. I told her if it came down to me or a mountain lion, I wanted to survive and not become a meal.

I took her shooting and she learned basic gun safety. Learned how to load the clip of my .45. How to clean it. How to hold and shoot my 12ga shotgun. How to load and clean it. She was fine with learning about guns, but they still made her nervous.

She tolerated my guns for years. We got married. We had kids. She started voicing concerns about my guns in the house around our small children. I always keep a loaded shotgun on the top shelf of my closet and a loaded .45 in my night stand.

Then one night......... the unthinkable happened............

Some lunatic decided to try and kick our front door in at 11pm on a Saturday night. Have no idea who it was or why he was bent on coming into my house.

Fortunately, our children were spending the night at my mother-in-laws house that evening.

With just me and my wife home....... we happened to be doing what most married couples would be doing if the kids were out of the house for the first time in months.

........ so there we are, on the couch, nekkid and this jerk starts banging on my door at 11pm. We lived in an apartment at the time.

I jumped up and went to the door. Could not see out, because he had his hand over the peephole. Stepped to the side of the door and asked who he was and what he wanted. Could not understand his response. Then he start kicking the door.

My wife was already down the hallway and into our bedroom to throw on some clothes. As she came out of the bedroom with the telephone in her hand, I told her to call 911 as I almost tackled her trying to get past her and into our bedroom.

I grabbed a little .380 from the closet, and a loaded clip from the top drawer of my dresser. Put the clip in, pulled the slide and turned off the safety. Then I reached up and grabbed my 12ga that was loaded with 00 buckshot.

Ran back down the hallway where the door is now shuddering in the frame while this guy proceeds to attempt entry into our apartment. I'm still nekkid.

I asked my wife why she had not dialed 911 yet and handed her the .380 with instructions - 'It's ready to fire - no safety - point and shoot if he comes in. Dial 911!!! hurry up!!!'

I took a position off center from the door and about 15 feet away. With my shotgun.

Got the 911 operator on the phone and told her what was happening. told her top get me some cops out here RIGHT NOW!!! Told her I was armed. She told me to put the gun down. I told her she was nucking futs if she thought I was going to put my gun down while this guy tries to kick my door down.

Meantime my wife runs back down the hallway and grabs my robe. I slip it on while she guards the door with the .380.

Couple minutes later the cops show up and there's a scuffle in the hallway as they arrest the idiot.

Then the cops start banging on my door with orders to drop the gun and come out. I informed the 911 operator that I was putting the guns down and would open the door right away. She relayed that message to the cops outside. Opened the door hands-first and talked to the cops. They came into my apartment - which I didn't appreciate.

Long story short - it was a case of mistaken address. It's an apartment complex and the guy had the wrong apartment number. He was drunk and thought his friends were playing a trick on him by refusing to open the door.

Cops made a comment about me keeping a 12ga with 00 buckshot loaded inside an apartment complex. Then they left.

My wife changed her attitude about guns INSTANTLY.

She LOVES guns now. Can't get enough of them. She has a Taurus 9mm now and she's taken hunters safety as well as 2 other gun safety courses. Anytime I ask her if I can go buy another one, she says, "Sure"

 

[leadcounsel]

In addition to my previous post, I'll add that you and your wife have deep philosophical disagreements -

She is a blissninny - a naive emotionally driven person whereas you are a practical, safety minded, rational and logically driven person.

IF she ever changes, it will only be on her own. You can't change her. And she may never change. So if you stay, you're along for the long haul ride.

If you were dating her, would you stay? If you didn't have kids, would you stay? If the answer is "no" then I don't see why you would stay and be miserable and disarmed to satisfy her unreasonable demands.

I wouldn't. I'd divorce on good terms and stay in your child's life.

 

[jeepnik]

Ignore her, maybe she'll go away.

 

[BSA1]

JAD,

As you can tell from the wide variety of responses divorce affects everyone differently. In making your decision it boils down to this one question;

Is your life better off with or without her?

Only you can be the judge, not family, friends or the Internet.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[rainbowbob]

There are many similarities between your story and mine (which I also discussed at length in a THR thread), so I hope I can offer you some solace and advice.

My wife and I had been married 30 years before I made the decision to arm myself. I will state for the record that I - probably like many newbies - was perhaps overly enthusiastic and talked too much about the subject, the justifications for carrying, etc.

My wife was completely unprepared for this abrupt change and reacted with horror and hysteria, which also spread to our grown daughter. I was assailed on both sides with unreasonable demands and condemnation.

We have been together for too long, have been through too much, and are both too damned obstinate to seriously consider divorce (although the word has on occasion been thrown out there in the heat of battle). My solution was to eventually cool down my own rhetoric and references to the subject, while simply making it clear that I had made a decision to protect us. I continued to occasionally point out situations that could potentially be deadly if not prepared (i.e., aware and armed) - but I tried to do so in ways that were not charged with emotion and at times we were both relaxed and amicably inclined.

Several incidents occurred that caused her to recognize the desirability of being armed in certain situations. I was able to use those incidents to point out that we can't control the time or place such incidents might occur.

Eventually (and it took a year or so), we all calmed down. I stopped talking about it, but kept training and carrying on a regular basis. It became a "don't ask - don't tell" sort of issue, although occasionally, in situations that clearly warranted it, she would ask, "Do you have your gun?"

We are now at the point (4 or 5 years later) where she has recently asked me if she should go to the range with me and learn how to load and fire one of my revolvers. She has some serious health issues, but I will teach her with my S&W K-frame .22 to gently introduce her to the basic safety and operational practices. This will translate pretty easily to loading and firing one of my S&W K-frame .38s for the purpose of home defense. I don't foresee the day when she would want to carry outside the home - but then I also didn't foresee her coming even this far.

So...my suggestion is to ignore all mention of divorce by Internet counselors, and to make it clear to your wife that divorce is not a consideration. On the subject of firearms be firm and persistent - but low-key and unemotional.

Patience my friend...this too shall pass.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

It wasn't clear if you have a child yet, but if so, this decision isn't only going to affect you and your wife. Once you have a child, it's no longer just about what you think is best for you.

A loving father, "unarmed" or not, that's around all the time to help raise the kids the right way will do more for their safety, well-being, and success in life than one that's armed to the teeth but only around every other weekend.

Think about it seriously and don't take marital advice from the internet, particularly when some of those making such clear cut declarations about what you should do are neither married nor are they fathers.

If you don't have any kids yet, do whatever you want.

 

[loud-mouth shnook]

My own answer to the OP's question, based on my own personal experience:

Take great joy in your sigh of relief when it's over and that she's finally gone, that now you know not to repeat the mistake, and to screen any future prospects (if you should encounter any) much more thoroughly.

This time, I got it right.

Good luck to you, sir.


ETA: BTW, I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but going by your original post, it smells like you may also be dealing with a bit of a control freak.

 

[beatledog7]

...we are not dealing with a rational objection to guns; we are dealing with an emotional one.

Fear is an emotion. A decision by a reasonable and logical person to steer clear of something that poses an actual and definable threat is rational; being afraid of that thing can never be rational.

 

[stevelyn]

Living with an anti-gun spouse, how do you do it?

I don't and I won't.

Getting tangled up with someone who doesn't share some core values is a recipe for disaster and a good way to lose half your stuff.

Not liking guns and not patricipating in shooting activities is one thing. Being anti and trying to control what you may or may not do is another animal and a deal breaker.

 

[hq]

When she demanded last week that I go back to how I was and get rid of all my guns, I flatly stated it was not going to happen. I would be derelict in my duties as a father if I did not do my best to protect her and our child from danger. When I refusted to back down, she wondered what we were going to do, and the dreaded “D” word came into the “conversation”. She backed down at this point. It wasn’t the first time this has happened, and each time this issue comes up it seems to get nastier and nastier.

Frankly, your wife could use a good therapist. Anxiety and fear of inanimate objects is a symptom of something far more serious and I'm not kidding at all. I know that some people feel uneasy in the presence of firearms, but when that happens, the firearm is not the problem, the person's perceptions and misinformation are.

I gave my wife all the time she needed. She knew (of course) that the house was absolutely full of guns, many of them fully automatic, and that I spent a few weeks every year hunting with my buddies. It took her 11 years before she got herself a hunting license and asked me if I could teach her to hunt, which I - of course - did with a great pleasure. Our kids hunt, they've accompanied us on hunting trips since they've been five or six. Kids also love to shoot, all kinds of target practise. My wife understands that, even though she doesn't practise much, only just enough to be able to hunt with confidence.

"D" word. If guns, as inanimate objects, are a sufficient reason for your wife to bring it up, I'm very sorry to say but you most likely have a problem person in your hands. Someone with issues that can't be fixed without professional help, as well as dedication to do that from all parties involved. I wouldn't consider divorce an option if the person is otherwise well reasoned and someone you truly love. Unless she values her obsession more than what you mean to her.

Your situation isn't an easy one. Sometimes people behave in very irrational ways and that's exactly what you have in your hands right now. Personally I'd refuse to feed an obsession like that in any way and, while acting as politely as possible, figure out a way to have that person deal with the problems she has. It isn't about you. It isn't about inanimate objects of any kind. It's all about her misinformed, biased perceptions. Guns are just tools, tools of personal safety, which require a certain amount of respect and care; the first tool man ever used was a weapon - a stone that was picked up because it enabled him to defend himself better than his bare hands, to be able to hunt more effectively. Nothing has changed, really. Few people are afraid of a hammer or a screwdriver, even though when they're abused, they're every bit as lethal as firearms. It's all up to the person who is holding them.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Reread Vito's thread http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7914769&postcount=57
his wife is anti-gun, sounds pretty far gone anit gun, but she still likes him.l

 

[3KillerBs]

If either of you is a religious person I strongly suggest counseling with your spiritual leader.

 

[The Sarge]

Forgive me friend....but I do not believe your issue is about guns.

 

[theicemanmpls]

To the OP, IMHO, your problems run far deeper then your wife not liking your guns.

I think you should get some counseling before trying to drag your wife along.

FYI, most of the Social Workers, LP's and other therapists are Lib *****. Good luck with them convincing wifey you need your guns.

It takes two to tango.

Believe me when I say this, DIVORCE SUCKS. You have a family. Man up and keep your family intact.

 

[x_wrench]

I would guess that guns are not the real issue playing out here.

i would not be so sure about that. my brothers wife absolutely hates firearms. she will not even move one to clean near one. instead, she comes storming to where ever my brother is and demands he go clean the area and take care of his *** gun. she is in total denial of the dangers of the world also. fortunately, she seldom goes anywhere that is even a medium risk environment, let alone a high risk place. he kept is 22 revolver at my house (in my gun safe) for more that 10 years. when he started introducing their son to shooting and hunting, they had a lot of fights. i do not know the specifics on how they came to some sort of agreement. but they did. and yes, the "D" word came up several times while they were working it out. personally, as long as nothing bad ever happens to either of them do to a firearm, i think things will be ok. not great, but ok. but, if either of them ever get hurt, i am afraid that it is going to get so ugly, so fast, that the devil himself will run for cover! i think my brother would like to even go as far as ccw. but i can not see that happening as long as they are married. in your situation, first, let me say that i feel bad for the both of you. imo, you are doing what you feel is right for your situation to protect you and your family. and as a husband and father, like many of us, believe that is one of our key responsibilities. i do not understand her view point for blaming you for awakening her to the horrors of the world. did she not have to take a history class in school? did they not cover the devils son, Adolf Hitler? and some of his doings? people have been killing, raping, maiming each other since Cain and Able. it certainly is not going to stop tomorrow. she is definitely the one with a problem. not because she does not like guns. not every one is cut out for them. and that is fine. but because she refuses to acknowledge that the dangers in this world are real, and could happen to any of us or you at any moment. living in a city only quadruples that chance. every adult, especially adults that have children to protect, need to have an emergency plan. you have chosen a gun, she does not need to go that route, pepper spray, or even an emergency whistle or screamer would help. it would first scare an attacker giving her a second or two to do something, or hopefully alert someone else that she needs help. but to stick her head in the sand will only make her, and possibly your son more at risk. somehow, someone needs to get it into her head that the police will not be at the next corner if and when she needs them. and that most likely, it will take them 5-20 minutes to show up. if all an attacker wants is her purse, fine. but most want much more than that. if her father is still in the picture, try talking with him privately about the situation. he may not appreciate your gun choice either, but chances are he might be able to talk to his daughter and help her to understand that she needs to react to danger, not just hope it never happens. i really hope you can work things out. i really do. but if you can not, and i am not saying this to hurt either of you. but think about your son. who is going to keep him safe, and how. if it comes to the big D, talk to the lawyer about getting custody of your boy. being a single dad is tough and stressful. but trying to live with yourself if something happens to him while she was paralyzed in fear is going to be much more difficult.