'Scout' Rifle: Where to start?

[Coal Dragger]

Red dot and magnifier if you have rail space and the magnifier doesn’t interfere with bolt operation may be a viable set up.

The low power variable though is dead sexy if you can afford one. A Steyr Scout with a 1-8X24 Nightforce would be the hawtness! True 1X low end with daylight bright illumination for near red dot like use, and an 8X top end for seeing and smacking targets out yonder. Yummy.

 

[taliv]

Red dot and magnifier if you have rail space and the magnifier doesn’t interfere with bolt operation may be a viable set up.

The low power variable though is dead sexy if you can afford one. A Steyr Scout with a 1-8X24 Nightforce would be the hawtness! True 1X low end with daylight bright illumination for near red dot like use, and an 8X top end for seeing and smacking targets out yonder. Yummy.

except the scope would be mounted directly over the port near your eye, not far forward. seems like that would be challenging with an open top action

 

[chicharrones]

delete

 

[Coal Dragger]

except the scope would be mounted directly over the port near your eye, not far forward. seems like that would be challenging with an open top action

“Challenging” is being generous.

 

[Llama Bob]

well, the ruger GSR in the OP is 7.1 lb instead of 7.7 so i don't see what the big deal is

Nope - Ruger #6830, 6.2 lbs. In typical scout configuration with no muzzle brake and a plastic mag, it's about 5.8lbs before you add optic, rings, and sling.


And you're forgetting the weight of the optic you chose - comparing a nearly 2lb optic to a 1/2 lb optic.

The SCAR heavy with a Nightforce 1-8 is miles away from being scout rifle weight.

 

[Coal Dragger]

Aside from weight a SCAR 17S is also miles more capable of multiple roles than that Ruger.

 

[Coal Dragger]

By the way the NF 1-8X24 NXS only weighs 17 ounces, not 2lbs.

 

[chicharrones]

Aside from weight a SCAR 17S is also miles more capable of multiple roles than that Ruger.

Without a doubt. Same goes for a SCAR compared to a lever action rifle.

I believe one reason (not always stated) that a bolt action rifle is considered the base for a scout rifle is simplicity and ease of maintenance. Bolt action rifles tend to be more simple and easier to maintain than an autoloader.

If the Scout term is to evolve, there probably ought to be a distinction between a 20th century scout rifle and a 21st century scout rifle. Call the 20th century version a traditional or classic "scout". I'm starting to like the sound of Classic Scout.

 

[Llama Bob]

By the way the NF 1-8X24 NXS only weighs 17 ounces, not 2lbs.

There's a 1-8x NXS? I've seen a 1-8 ATACR, but that's the only one I know of. Nightforce's site lists it at 21oz FWIW.

 

[Coal Dragger]

Yep they make an NXS 1-8X24 for those who want lighter weight and cost.

 

[Llama Bob]

You sure you're not thinking of the NXS 1-4 compact?

If there's a 1-8x NXS, they should put it on the website. Someone might buy it...

 

[Coal Dragger]

They market it as the NX8. My apologies for the mislabeling.

http://nightforceoptics.com/nx8/nx8-1-8x24-f1

If you don’t need the super flat field of the appochrimatic glass in the ATACR then the NX8 will cost about $800 less and save some weight.

 

[Llama Bob]

Looks like an OK, scope, although at that range I'd take the NXS 2.5-10. But that's not a bad optic.

Of course, neither is nearly as fast as the forward mounted scope specified for the scout rifle. So again, the scout seems to be mysteriously good at something

 

[taliv]

I’d be very curious to see if anyone can prove that. I’d like to see someone run a scout with a forward mounted scope fast doing anything at all.

Give me an example of something you think a scout with forward mounted optic would be faster at

 

[Coal Dragger]

Looks like an OK, scope, although at that range I'd take the NXS 2.5-10. But that's not a bad optic.

Of course, neither is nearly as fast as the forward mounted scope specified for the scout rifle. So again, the scout seems to be mysteriously good at something

A low power variable with a true 1X low end is way way faster than a scout scope. I've used both, and there is no comparison. None. The scout scope is total trash, you couldn't give me one. I say that having owned a Steyr Scout with a Leupold 2.5X28 Scout Scope. That little scope was garbage compared to a current 1-4, 1-5, 1-6, 1-7, or 1-8.

In my use on the range, and in class my little NXS 1-4X24 gives up essentially nothing to a red dot sight for speed when set to 1X and stomps all over a red dot past 100 yards when turned up to 4X. Worth noting that in the Pat McNamara class on training day 2 the final carbine challenge I had the fastest clean practice run using the 1-4X24, and the shooter who won the event and edged me out on the final was running a 1-6X24 Vortex Razor HD. We flat out smoked the guys running red dots, and l like red dots on a carbine but with a bit of practice a low power variable at 1X is also blazing fast and more versatile.

 

[SharpDog]

The Scout Rifle Challenge:

http://www.downrange.tv/blog/the-scout-rifle-challenge/35294/

http://www.downrange.tv/blog/the-rebirth-of-colonel-coopers-scout-rifle-video/7918/

 

[hps1]

Not a scout but designed this mount for M1 to solve the problem of iron sights and old eyes.
View attachment 796162

View attachment 796163

Regards,
hps

Got the old girl out and discovered that due to the fact I have a cataract developing, the FFII red dot looks like a star, not a dot. The farther from the eye the more irregular the appearance.

It occurred to me that a Millet red dot might fit, and sure enough it does. Looks a bit fragile, but as long as it doesn't get bumped too hard should be OK. Eye relief is perfect and dot is almost round to my eye. Another + is smaller (and variable) size and brightness of dot!

Also resolved the other problem with this mount (height of optic) by purchasing this very well made cheek rest/ammo carrier online https://www.walmart.com/ip/Voodoo-A...th-Ammo-Pouch-Shooting-Gear-Category/37327220 . Height is easily adjusted by removing a bit of hard foam, but I just rolled it to about 12:30 position and it gives perfect spot weld. Don't care for or plan to use the cartridge holder, but it is removable (velcro).



Wish the Millet had some magnification, but is a big improvement over irons. Hmmm, wish I could find a Primary Arms 3X ACSS to see if it will clear the clip slot on the Garand. The dot in reticle is only 1 MOA and w/3X power would be about as good as it gets.


Does anyone happen to have one they could take a couple of measurements such as overhang of objective lens from front of base (or better yet from center of front mounting screw)? Based on my (poor) math and measurements taken from pictures looks like about .96" from base???
Regards,
hps

 

[taliv]

The Scout Rifle Challenge:

http://www.downrange.tv/blog/the-scout-rifle-challenge/35294/

http://www.downrange.tv/blog/the-rebirth-of-colonel-coopers-scout-rifle-video/7918/

15 rounds prone at a 12" target at 200 yards in 90 seconds with a mag change?

how fast do you think you could do that with a 6 lb ar15 and a low power variable?

 

[Coal Dragger]

In about 60 seconds, less if I practiced.

 

[HC_Jack]

?

• 3.49 kg (7.7 lb) (SCAR-H CQC)
• 3.58 kg (7.9 lb) (SCAR-H STD)
  3.72 kg (8.2 lb) (SCAR-H LB)

If you asked Cooper whether adding 1.3 lbs vs the Steyr in order to get semi auto capability was worth it he would certainly say “no”. If you practice your bolt work you can have the second round ready by the time you’re back on target. Then he’d probably ask how the trigger compares to the Steyr.

 

[Coal Dragger]

And Cooper would be wrong about that too.

There’s a reason the SR-25 platform is supplanting the bolt action .308 sniper rifle in military use, you can practice running the bolt all you want the semi auto is flat out faster and more capable of delivering reliable hits on target when follow up shots are needed. 15 years of GWOT have born this out, Cooper’s theory crafting hasn’t held up well.

 

[Charlie98]

I'm starting to like the sound of Classic Scout.

As soon as you start adding adjectives all it does is muddy the waters. Once you remove the very restrictive design limits of Cooper's Scout rifle, specifically, and build a rifle based on his concept... the 'role' of the weapon, so to speak, then you simply have a Scout rifle. In my mind it doesn't really matter how much it weighs or where the optic is mounted, or even what cartridge it is chambered in, because every application is different. A Scout rifle in the open desert might be set up quite differently than a Scout rifle for dense woods, etc. At the end of the day, it's just a name, and Cooper was just another guy.

 

[Kendal Black]

It is clear from what he said about it that what Cooper prized was a light and handy instrument that would, most often, be capable of taking whatever shot presented itself.

Naturally, what he thought suitable was influenced in high degree by what he thought likely to present itself. A full powered cartridge was more important to him than having a lot of shots. A lightweight, durable and accurate rifle was more important than self-loading operation. A single well-aimed shot, or at most a short string of them, would solve the shooting problems that came along.

I notice that a lot of criticisms of the rifle concept he came up with are, when carefully considered, really disagreements with what he thought most likely to be useful. The "use case" suppositions being accepted, though, Cooper's solution is a good one. To make much headway against it you have to argue that the scout rifle solves the wrong problem.

No solution is fully general purpose if you add enough purposes, stacking them higher and higher, to match some broader and broader idea of generality. Thus it is always possible to criticize something touted as general purpose by pointing out it is not all-purpose.

 

[SharpDog]

What I find most interesting about these posts:

Q: I want to buy an ABC?

maybe a couple of folks try to help them get an ABC

but mostly it devolves into why they shouldn't get an ABC
because the responders like an XYZ or a DEF and why those are better.

Now, there's certainly value in that. But it's an interesting pattern. This pattern is rampant.

And it's mostly tribalism IMHO

 

[taliv]

i honestly think scout rifles are really cool. i love them. it's very nostalgic and sort of reminds me of the hemmingway books i read growing up.

but even though i think bolt rifles are extremely practical and have spent the past 20 years shooting precision rifle competitions with both bolt and semis, i just don't think there's a single thing the scout concept does better than modern solutions. so i'd hate to see someone buy one for the wrong reason