DRZinn
Member
I don't thnink it's possible to shoot correctly, even if badly, in that type of situation and miss that much. I think the guy was shooting from the hip. Which would support the idea that it wasn't his gun.
Gunman in the Mall, right now!!!!!
- Thread starter iamhistory
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sturmruger
Member
Confused
Was this two seperate instances or is it one and the same? Where do you lice Iamhistory?
Was this two seperate instances or is it one and the same? Where do you lice Iamhistory?
GhostRider-Nine
member
Yes lets never forget that not all muslims are terrorists....but we should also keep in mind that most terrorists are muslims.
Andrew Rothman
Member
This morning's AP story:
I would never second-guess this brave man, but, um, doesn't Dick's sell guns?
I would never second-guess this brave man, but, um, doesn't Dick's sell guns?
molonlabe
Member
mbs357
Member
Sounds like a crappy gun. Glad the bad guys have poor hardware.
This may be nit picky, but there is nothing racial about this statement. Islamic and muslim are religious terms. Not racial terms.
Be careful with the use of the words race and racist. Quite frankly the misuse of these words leeds to rampent Political Correctness.
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
True - there are the two terms. However, tho it may seem rather PC to mention it as I did - the problem arises thru the implied meaning, as many see it... plus when added to ..nutcase'' ... I actually hate PC these days but here I think we have to still be careful.... trying not have a boat rocked! 
LiquidTension
Member
Wow, that projectile must have some massive speed behind it, what with the case being 339mm long and all.
aguyindallas
Member
Not to take anything away from another gun related whack job tragedy, but seriously think for a second.
If gun laws are so strict in NY, how in the world would something like this happen.
Gun control just doesnt work, or this would not have happened.
If gun laws are so strict in NY, how in the world would something like this happen.
Gun control just doesnt work, or this would not have happened.
carebear
Member
NY State and NYC are two different critters gun-wise.
This was upstate, not in the city, the Sullivan Act does not apply.
Crazy, however, knows no boundaries.
This was upstate, not in the city, the Sullivan Act does not apply.
Crazy, however, knows no boundaries.
Cortland
Member
Dick's sells politically correct guns. No handguns, no "assault type rifles," nothing with a pistol grip, etc. It sounds like nobody there would've had time to ready a weapon as I don't imagine they keep any sitting around loaded.
Dick's also (last I heard) requires you to inform them whenever you bring a gun into the store (includes CCW -- not sure if they allow or disallow once you "inform them."). A representative from Dick's spoke at our local gun club some months ago and explained the policy to us -- we only very narrowly avoided what was quickly turning into a lynch mob.
BluesBear
member
DANG!
Did anyone NOT show up?
I heard that Cinnabon had to call in two extra shifts.
Spacemanspiff-
As one who spent four summers doing Security at a theme park during college (I have a B.A. in Political Sience), 3.5 years as a Mall Security officer (three as Asst. Chief) after graduation, and have since been employed as a Security Officer at a Nuclear Power Plant for 21 years, where I am required to take a pychological test every few years to insure that I haven't developed any "personality disorders" (and I make more than the Chief of most of the local police depts.) I feel a little offended my your blanket comment. Private Security includes nightwatchman that may or not wake-up to call in a fire, bullies with a badge that should be in therapy, and all the way thru the range of human personality.
I generally do not comment to the Mall Ninja threads because they are humorous, there are people like that out there and I have better things to be concerned about. It is true that people should take responsibility for their own security but in some cases that is not possible, it is also not possible for the police to be everywhere. Some want a increased level of protection and they are willing to pay for it. We provide a service and provide for our families just like everyone else.
Sorry but that was a little stronger than I could take without comment.
WFM
As one who spent four summers doing Security at a theme park during college (I have a B.A. in Political Sience), 3.5 years as a Mall Security officer (three as Asst. Chief) after graduation, and have since been employed as a Security Officer at a Nuclear Power Plant for 21 years, where I am required to take a pychological test every few years to insure that I haven't developed any "personality disorders" (and I make more than the Chief of most of the local police depts.) I feel a little offended my your blanket comment. Private Security includes nightwatchman that may or not wake-up to call in a fire, bullies with a badge that should be in therapy, and all the way thru the range of human personality.
I generally do not comment to the Mall Ninja threads because they are humorous, there are people like that out there and I have better things to be concerned about. It is true that people should take responsibility for their own security but in some cases that is not possible, it is also not possible for the police to be everywhere. Some want a increased level of protection and they are willing to pay for it. We provide a service and provide for our families just like everyone else.
Sorry but that was a little stronger than I could take without comment.
WFM
Stand_Watie
Member
I spent ten years in private security. It attracts enough jokers and idiots that making fun of "rent-a-cops" has a large enough kernel of truth in it that it can be understandable if intended in good good humor. For every joker or idiot though, there is a youngster on their way to a rewarding law enforcement career, a military retiree transitioning to civilian life, a senior citizen supplementing a pension or just a guy like me that is just trying to keep a roof over my families head and food on the table.
By far the biggest contributor to idiots in private security is simply low pay and training. You get what you pay for, and the vast majority of private security companies are following the "lowest bidder" mentality. Guys who don't have a job worth worrying about losing don't worry about losing it. This issue could be entirely alleviated by private security using the same pay schedules and training responsibilities incorporated at your power plant.
I agree with you that this is a dramatic overstatment. I'd say less than 20% of private security officers have personality disorders larger than liking to work a low effort/low pay job.
Brian Dale
Member
OK, maybe I'm just slow...
Guy starts shooting inside a mall.
Authorities lock everyone inside so that the guy who's shooting can't get away.
This means that the guy then has a maximum of, oh, "only" a couple of thousand people in danger. Locked in the mall with him. Men, women and children. Locked inside, together with the guy who's shooting.
Am I wrong to see this as a BIG problem?
Guy starts shooting inside a mall.
Authorities lock everyone inside so that the guy who's shooting can't get away.
This means that the guy then has a maximum of, oh, "only" a couple of thousand people in danger. Locked in the mall with him. Men, women and children. Locked inside, together with the guy who's shooting.
Am I wrong to see this as a BIG problem?
Selfdfenz
Member
Happy Bob,
My thoughts exactly.
S-
My thoughts exactly.
S-
carebear
Member
mete, thanks for the correction. I thought Sullivan was a local thing to ensure Tweed's dominance in town, didn't realize it was statewide.
280PLUS
Member
Bob
I've coined a phrase that seems to fit the incident and all those like it.
"Fox in the Henhouse Syndrome"
Which is just about what you have when you loose an armed nutjob into a crowded area almost anywhere anytime.
Especially when there is no escape.
One of the cable news medias is saying he fired 50 to 60 rounds.
If I was able to keep my presence of mind and had the opportunity I think Dicks might have had a nice semi auto in a deer caliber I could have "borrowed" just for the moment, of course that would have taken time. Pistol grips don't make them much deadlier. But first I would have had to check the mall map and find Dick's...
The guy who was sneaking up behind him had the right idea, now if he'd only had a (insert favorite CCW here).
:banghead:
I've coined a phrase that seems to fit the incident and all those like it.
"Fox in the Henhouse Syndrome"
Which is just about what you have when you loose an armed nutjob into a crowded area almost anywhere anytime.
Especially when there is no escape.
One of the cable news medias is saying he fired 50 to 60 rounds.
If I was able to keep my presence of mind and had the opportunity I think Dicks might have had a nice semi auto in a deer caliber I could have "borrowed" just for the moment, of course that would have taken time. Pistol grips don't make them much deadlier. But first I would have had to check the mall map and find Dick's...
The guy who was sneaking up behind him had the right idea, now if he'd only had a (insert favorite CCW here).
:banghead:
carnaby
Member
wow, this thread got hijacked pretty quick.
Any news on the original "guy with gun in shoe store" that started it all?
Any news on the original "guy with gun in shoe store" that started it all?
280PLUS
Member
I think,,,
"Guy in the shoestore" was the preliminary info which later turned into man shooting up the mall, so the thread followed the info as it became available.
"Guy in the shoestore" was the preliminary info which later turned into man shooting up the mall, so the thread followed the info as it became available.
LoadedDrum
Member
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2004
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If it did, my money would still be on your crew vs. the lynch mob.
38SnubFan
Member
From the perspective of a mall public safety supervisor and that of my boss (who is also a veteran LEO), the answer to why security hung back so far is two fold:
-You do not want to come up on a scenario where you cannot meet the threat with an equal level of force. You're simply asking to get yourself killed if you do. Then you have an officer down, possibly dead. What good does that do?
-By being unarmed and dealing with a "man with a gun situation," you do not want a huddle of officers "ganging up" on the suspect. If the suspect is a mental case or agitated, too many guys in uniform could be enough to aggrivate him to the point of a shooting spree.
I agree that security should be armed, or at least have some type of "use-of-force" option. My boss is currently attempting to seek OC spray and Taser for our mall, albeit it probably wont be anything immediate. Armed mall security has two disadvantages, both to the mall environment and to the mall management that has to pay for it. They are:
-Armed security costs more than unarmed. A LOT MORE!
-Customers seeing a bunch of guys in uniform with guns patrolling the mall sends a signal that the mall isn't a safe place, therefore pushing customers away to a different place to shop.
First off, the name calling isn't necessary. Jeff White (THR Moderator) has made it clear in Strategies & Tactics that flaming someone based on their profession is not to be tolerated. However humorous (and I've laughed at some of the jokes myself), it's wrong. I work hard and take pride in my job, just like you take pride in the job you do. I'm not the "ninja" type and I don't try to act like something I'm not. As far as personality disorders go, I undergo a criminal background check AND a personality profile exam in order to be hired by my company. I'd appreciate it if you do not flame my profession, as I will not flame yours, even if you're nothing more than a burger-flipper at the local fast-food joint.
Some of those "cowards" are the elderly and handicapped who don't have the strength, wits, or other abilities to defend and protect themselves. That's why I do what I do, and I enjoy/take pride in it. Thus, your statement is, in my opinion, an abomination in itself. Do you think I would call a burger-flipper's occupation an abomination? I most certainly will not, as someone's got to make that Wendy's Triple I get the occasional craving for.
Before opening the mouth, one should first be opening the mind.
-38SnubFan
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