Laid down the law on my anti-gun girlfriend...success!

[gitarmac]

This is about more than just guns, it's about being a rational grown up adult and she sounds more like a child. When this thread first started she didn't think a gun would help her if she were threatened with rape, it wouldn't do any good anyway. Now she is afraid that someone will get killed if you are defending yourself.

These are the types of women that testify against people protecting themselves against violence from crimianals. The instance I am thinking of is a grocery store robbery that was stopped by a CCW holder. A customer was more afraid of the defender than the criminal doing the crime.

And that's why crime proliferates in our society, because of the very attitude of your girlfriend. I cant' figure out why you would have any respect for her anymore.

This is a good time to cut your losses, it isn't going to get any better, you aren't going to "fix" her. This isn't somebody you want raising your children. There are more mature women out there, ones you don't need to fix. get out and meet them.

 

[torpid]

As far as couples go, she sure doesn't sound like someone who will stand by you and watch your back if things got rough. If a mate chooses to be a dependent instead of a partner, then they shouldn't meddle with your methods of being the protector, and should step back and let you do it (as it's you by default that's going to be putting your life on the line alone in that type of relationship).

I prefer an equal partner who's willing to team up with me if things get ugly.
(Not that I'm unwilling to step up to be the "shield", but it's nice to know that there's another person interested in keeping us both safe).

I agree with the observation that currently, this (in my opinion) illogical woman doesn't sound like the kind of mother I'd want "protecting" my children down the road.

 

[Baba Louie]

"Compromise, compromise, compromise" is all I hear, when "compromise" means "you can't use guns for defense" and this is unacceptable.

Survival of the fittest (bad grammar, that) means something to you but has, it appears, very little reality to your friend. It could be that her emotional state truly realizes that she cannot, could not, will not, be able to cope with a life and death violent situation should one confront her. This may even extend towards protecting any future children born to you, and that'd be a sad thing... but it's also only conjecture on my part. Her decision to strip you of one of the tools readily available to protect your world leaves you (both) with a decision to face.

Life is short.

Three years of companionship were enjoyable (I assume).

Self Preservation should not require compromise (except in choosing caliber and delivery method)... The male of our species has an inclination towards fight, as opposed to flight, when justice and protection of loved ones is on the line. So be it. Continue on a logical path, allowing her the freedom(s) she chooses.

It's really her choice, as I see it. I can only hope nothing wicked ever crosses her path in her life. At some point, she might realize that death (and sometimes unwanted violence) is a guaranteed part of life, even down to the food we eat. Unless she only eats fruit that falls from a tree, something must die in order to sustain her life. She might fear death (and violence) to the point of never actually living a fulfilled life.

Or... it might be a control issue.

Life is short. This isn't a dress rehearsal.

Good luck amigo. No Deguello can be a messy affair.

 

[tellner]

respectfully, jdkelley, this has turned into a typical guy bitchfest. Maybe guns are a make-or-break issue for some relationships. For others it might be insignificant things like children or religion.

But anyone who isn't foursquare for guns is psychotic or manipulative? Person of African ancestry, with your permission! This is typical of the Altmeyer's RWA subservient follower personality type - anyone who doesn't believe exactly what I do and like what I like isn't quite human. It's a stupid, vicious, short-sighted way of looking at the world.

 

[American By Blood]

Either go ahead with what you're doing and explain to her that you simply don't respect her irrational fears or dump her. Her reaction to this will tell you where you stand in the relationship.

My experience with women (uh oh... somebody's about to generalize...) is that everything is negotiable if you meet their primal needs. If they admire you and you can make them feel safe, provided for, valued, pretty, satisfied, and gently lead they'll generally come around to just about anything reasonable. No need for violence or other behaviors that the teevee caricatures masculinity with. Old-fashioned gentlemanly behavior will do the trick with most women who have outgrown the college phase of not shaving their underarms and wearing hiking boots when not in the woods.

And before people assume that I'm some sort of chronically single misogynist I'll mention that I've been dating the same woman for close to four years and that she has a career, master's degree, and other marks of accomplishment. Countless generations of evolution have left us all with a whole lot more than just opposable thumbs.

 

[Lupinus]

yep, the rip the band aid off approach is the best one, either it'll rip the cut back open and be a total failure or it will work and it will have the desired result and get it over and done with without a lot of agony and waiting while it only gets worse and drawn out.

Sit her down, lay it out, explain how it is gonna be, my way or the highway don't like it get out.

 

[gitarmac]

forgot to mention

Saying she will "let" you have the guns but not the ammo or not let you use the guns to defend yourself or her is pretty much the same as not letting you have the guns. She is sort of putting you to the same ultimatum but in a round about way.

Guns are not knick knacks, they use bullets to kill people with, they were not invented for a target game. They are a good tool to have at your disposal when diplomacy fails.

 

[gitarmac]

tellner quote:
respectfully, jdkelley, this has turned into a typical guy bitchfest. Maybe guns are a make-or-break issue for some relationships. For others it might be insignificant things like children or religion.

But anyone who isn't foursquare for guns is psychotic or manipulative? Person of African ancestry, with your permission! This is typical of the Altmeyer's RWA subservient follower personality type - anyone who doesn't believe exactly what I do and like what I like isn't quite human. It's a stupid, vicious, short-sighted way of looking at the world.







I'm not a guy and it's not about guns, it's about permission to value yourself enough to stand up for yourself. His girlfriend has an idealistic childlike way of looking at the world that is bound to end badly down the road. To ignore that is only to set yourself up for even more heartbreak later on.

When couple get serious they SHOULD agree on core issues and have simular outlooks on life, like abortion, children, religion, ect. The mature thing to do is get past infatuation and thinking with your hormones, get past the puppies and fuzzy pink bunnies, and try to imagine what it's going to be like down the road. If more people did that there would be less broken families when down the road they realize that past the sex and shopping at the mall they don't have what it takes to make it, only now there are children involved.

I'm pushin' 50 and many of my friends are raising their grandchildren because their offspring started pumping out kids before they got to know each other. It should have been obvious from the start things werent' going to work out but the people involved were not mature enough to do the right thing, break it off, before it was too late.

 

[Greybeard7]

jlbraun:

You may want to change the topic on your post, as this does not seem to be successful to me. Sad, yes, successful, no.

It is sad that this appears to be the end of a three year relationship. You seem to be considering the possibility that shooting is more than a hobby, but also a Constitutional right that allows you the means to defend your life if necessary. Her refusal to allow you the tools to defend your life, if necessary, says some things that are less than pleasant. It appears that this is becoming a power struggle and a focal point in your relationship. If it is just a power struggle, then she has certainly picked the right topic to decide the future of the relationship. If she prevails in this, when you are considering the potential need to defend your and her lives, no other debate between you will be as important.

If she believes so strongly against self defense that a hypothetical, anonymous criminals life is worth more than yours, then you have discovered something more important than anything she has ever said to you. Your life means less than her than her belief in pacifism. Having that belief, she will probably NOT have the means to change her mind if she is ever faced with being raped and/or murdered. I sincerely hope that she never faces that, but without the means of self defense, she has already made that decision.

"The previous comment about boundaries has been turned - it's now "using guns for defense falls into both our spheres because it affects me too" and is using this to say that because one of us (her) says that using guns for defense is bad, no usable guns should be in our (future) house because one person is uncomfortable with it. She says that she does not see herself changing, and that CCW is right out."

From this comment, I infer (whether right or wrong), that if "using guns for defense" is wrong, her position is that it is better for you to die than the assailant. Unfortunately, regardless of her attempting to take the "higher moral ground", she has sided with criminals and killers and your life is subject to their discretion if they forcefully enter your life or home. Not acceptable to me, but not my call.

"She's afraid that if someone did come in the house, that "someone would die if there's a gun". She's very empathic and can't stand the fact of anyone dying."

Well, if someone enters your home illegally and they have a gun, someone could very well die. There is a very good possibility that someone will. Who it is could depend on your skills, firearms, and pure chance. It appears that her empathy goes to the intruder and not you. Her position, as I interpret that statement, is that the "someone" who would die should be you. Not acceptable to me, but not my call.

"she says "You're not compromising. I've compromised so much and you're not budging.""

Compromising your ability to defend yourself, regardless of the benefit she receives of being defended without taking any responsibility for her own safety, is, again, placing aggressors and lawbrakers lives above yours. Not acceptable to me, but not my call.

""My parents have always said that they would give their life for one another", she says."

Giving your life for her would be getting killed in her defense. Giving your life to a criminal without armed resistance is only making her rape and murder easier. I don't think she really understands what her parents said.

I'm sure that you care a great deal for this woman, and I'm truly sorry that it has come to this. My only consolation to you is that this issue may very well be saving you years of heartache, thousands of dollars, and many years of your life that could be spent with a woman who truly loves you and understands your desire to protect yourself and your family.

Good luck,

GB7

 

[JohnKSa]

Unless you're willing to give up the right to use firearms in self-defense, you're going to have to let her go.

It can go both ways, but IMO the most likely scenario--even if you get your concessions now-- is that SHE'S gonna lay down the law when kids come into the picture... Coworker of mine lost all his guns when his wife got pregnant. What was he gonna do--walk out on his pregnat wife? She was adamant and totally unwilling to negotiate. At that point, you're stuck. If you try to get stubborn, all she has to do is call the cops and say you hit her--you'll HAVE to get rid of your guns and you'll never own another as long as you live.

Some possibilities:

She doesn't want guns around because she doesn't trust you or doesn't trust you around guns. (Not compatible with a long term relationship.)

She doesn't want guns around because she has an irrational fear of guns. (Unassailable with logic and incompatible with your philosophy.)

She doesn't want guns around because she doesn't trust herself around guns. (Scary.)

 

[damyankee]

I have 3 guns, USP, AR15 and an AK and I am going into LE. Girlfriend hates them, even though her brother is a marine (women... go figure). But she would never insist I get rid of them. Grats to you though for "standing your ground"

 

[Aguila Blanca]

She's afraid that if someone did come in the house, that "someone would die if there's a gun". She's very empathic and can't stand the fact of anyone dying. She said, "well, you can just threaten them with the empty gun, and because I know it's empty that would be OK." She doesn't understand that you can't rely on the goodness of a robber to not kill you.

Frankly, it's time to sit this chick down and explain to her that when strange men wearing hoods or masks break into occupied houses or apartments in the middle of the night, very likely someone WILL be killed. The entire purpose of your having a LOADED gun is to ensure that the person(s) who die(s) is the bad guy(s), not the happy couple in their love nest. A "home invasion" that does not result in the occupants being severely beaten, raped, sodomized, and or killed is actually rather unusual. When people break in while nobody's home, it's called "burglary."

When there are occupants in the home, it's something else.

In fairness to the young lady, I am sure that ïn her mind she has made significant compromises. In fact, she hasn't given you much besides the ludicrous suggestion to wave an empty pistol at an assailant ... or multiple assailants.

Time to move on. The sooner you start looking for another woman, the sooner you'll find one. Throw this one back in the pond.

 

[Hoploholic]

JL...cut and run. You will never change this girl's mind and if you enter into legal union or cohabitation with her bad things might very well happen. Women have extraordinary and abusive legal power over males. If she wants the guns out of the house all it takes is one call to the law-dawgs stating that you yelled at her and threw a plate against the wall. You will get your time in court, but you will lose...your right to ever own firearms again. You may actually share mutual love, but neither one of you will ever be happy with the compromise. You are diametrically opposed on a heated cultural issue. Part ways as kindly as possible if you do not want heart wrenching pain in your life.

For those of you who are of the bent, I am not a misogynist. I am a realist and a well versed student of life. Reality is not always sugar plums and rainbows, and wishing it so does not make it so. Bring your rightous indignation and flames if you must but know that you are only wasting your time. I have made my own conclusions and they will not be swayed by vehm or venom

 

[gulogulo1970]

I find some of these arguments too complicated in the fact that you do not have to obey her. It is as simple as that and in so doing make her leave the relationship over your guns.

"I don't want guns in the house," should be answered with tough, live with it or goodbye. True equals in a relationship never demand one obey the other.

I'll believe this til the day I die, that real love would never be destroyed over something as trivial as this. If it was destoyed then what did you have?

 

[damyankee]

"I am a realist and a well versed student of life. Reality is not always sugar plums and rainbows, and wishing it so does not make it so." -hoploholic

+10!! I have been involved in at least 10 sh%$&* incidents (only one involving guns) that were not my fault other than standing my ground, others out there know that's how it goes

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I suppose I should mention that my wife also hates guns. However, she knows they are in the house. More important, she knows they were in the house before she arrived, so she can probably intuit that an ultimatum will result in their being here after she leaves.

 

[rangerruck]

the kittens are even now rejoicing!

 

[gitarmac]

No, he doesn't have to obey her - yet, but if the relationship drags on and they get hitched the balence of power will change, just like the previous poster said.

The operative word here is "compromise". That means she is morally against guns and self defense, she so much as said so. This isn't something a couple can compromise on, there is either a mutual understanding or there isn't. If there isn't sooner or later there is going to be a situation and this fella is going to be on the losing end of the deal.

People that cannot understand why a person should defend themselves against crime and evil cannot be reasoned with and it is useless to try. You cannot use logic against emotion. People that are guided by emotion don't have to give reasons for what they think or feel, they just have "feelings". This is an issue in which there should be agreement, not a compromise.

I'm a woman and I have given up on reasoning with women like this, I cannot fathom why a man would put up with it. It will be a future weapon. When she starts "feeling" threatened by some imaginary transgression he will have no choice but to succomb to her will. It would be simple for her to set him up to look like a nutjob because she will believe it. Her feelings to her are real no matter how illogical they are.

Just tell her you think y'all should start seeing other people, or need some time apart or something. Say it and mean it.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Pay heed to what gitarmac just wrote. I don't even know her and I think she's a smart lady.

The point about trying to refute emotion with logic is especially on the mark. Lemme give you a minor but revealing example of how this works:

When my first ill-advised marriage was already in trouble (but not TOO deeply ... yet), my wife asked me how to spell a word. It happened to be a word that I know how to spell, so I spelled it for her. She said she disagreed. I explained that SHE had asked ME, and that the question could be resolved by looking in the dictionary. Her response was, "You think you're smarter than I am, and I hate that. I have a right to my own opinion."

Well, yes -- in matters of opinion, I do believe rather fervently that everyone has a right to their own. I often wish that other people's opinions of the appropriate sound level for horrible noises mascarading as music were more congruent with mine ... but I digress. How to spell a word is not subject to opinion, it is a matter of fact. The dictionary isn't going to say "It's spelled like this except when Debbie feels like spelling it some other way."

Likewise, what happens to the occupants of a home if they are invaded is not subject to opinion. The ONLY question, if you are not armed and prepared to offer a defense, is whether you'll both be killed, one killed and the other badly beaten, or (best case) you'll both be badly beaten but alive.

If the girl cannot understand that ... if she somehow thinks that ANY of those outcomes is preferable to using a gun to stop an invasion/assault ... she is an incurable space cadet and you will be very VERY unhappy if you continue the relationship.

 

[Byron Quick]

I reckon my handling of similar situations is not conducive to forming long term relationship...judging from the track record to date.

My date says,"No firearms will ever be allowed in my house."
Me,"I'll never darken your doorway."

Woman at work I'm asking out is a hunting fanatic. Not just hunting, she jumps right into the butchering.

There would still be arguments about firearms in a relationship with her, though...how many can we buy now, which ones, and whose are they...there's problems no matter who you wind up with.

 

[NineseveN]

Stand your ground, period. Tell her that those that force others into ultimatums actually make the choice themselves.

There is no room for meeting someone half-way here. If you asked if you could sodomize her regularly and she was against that, I sincerely doubt that she'd compromise even if you gave emotional reasons or very compelling logic. That's a boundary; when someone respects you, they leave the boundaries alone. Her saying that you having a gun affects her is a selfish line to draw, everyone's decisions about nearly everything have an impact on someone, most often someone they are intimate with, but it’s still the individual’s choice to make (and on the other side of the fence, to accept).

If she were to tell you that she didn't want you to believe in God/Bhudda/Krom/Kthulu and instead you should worship Gaeia because that's what she believes and she's not supposed to be intimate with a non-believer, what would your answer be?

Whatever you'd decide, that's the aspect of your character that defines the line you're willing to cross when it comes to your morals and principles. Some things cannot be and should not be compromised on. If she doesn't like guns, she shouldn't be forced to buy them, touch them, carry them or be taken to the range to shoot them; respect her boundaries. But, she also has to let you make your own decisions. If she doesn't, then her personal feelings are held in a higher regard than her respect for you and the relationship...move on and let her find someone that's just like she wants them to be.

Good luck.

 

[Rich K]

I'd let her go. She has no respect for you or your beliefs, and it would seem, no self respect either. my ex gave me the old ' either the guns go or I go' speech, and she was gone fsaster than you can say jack robinson. Same thing with a couple of women since. My responsibility as a man includes protecting my female companions, as well as myself. The best way to do that is to be aware and armed. If they don't appreciate that, then they are not the one for me. Quit banging your head on the wall, it will just give you a headache.

 

[HerrWolfe]

Bail out. Totally wrong mind set regarding guns and you will loose. She has something you want, and will hold it over your head. You cannot get it legally elsewhere or if you do she will take everything you have, so you will give in. Its two different worlds, men and women, not one world shared 50% each, and if these two differnt worlds co-exist, it works great and is wonderful. She will give in for now for the relationship, read as found one that can support me like I think I want, at least maybe until I can possibly find one better. She will reason she can fix you later, and she will, one way or the other. Also, if you baiol out, she will come around to your way of thinking, but fasely, don't give in. Move if you must.
I posted this before reading the previous posts. You are getting some sage advice.

 

[Black Knight]

Cut your losses now. A good lasting relationship is based on trust. as said by others it sounds as though she does not trust you. Let her go live in that fairy world she is in,, while you can live in the real world. She will never see herself worthy of you or your protection. This type of person believes that criminals are saints and defenders are satan. You can most certainly find better. I found my wife when I was not looking for a relationship. It seems the best find us.

 

[rbernie]

Let's set aside all of the emotional issues related to finding out that a Potentially-Significant-Other might be fundamentally and diametrically opposed to some core belief structures of yours, and be horribly practical for a minute. Are you comfortable entering into a legal contract (which is what marriage legally amounts to) with someone who would then be in a position to take possession of and sell/destroy the disputed property, and who would be (in many states) legally empowered to do so?

If you can't get solid irrefutable and nonemotional agreement on the disposition of the firearms now, you are REALLY rolling the dice trying to make this relationship work.